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Too much offensive power on some classes.
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ElricVIII Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 3:20 pm Posts: 285	Too much offensive power on some classes. Allow me to preface this by saying I have no problem with autos and I'm not just whining that things that kill me are OP. With that out of the way, I would like to say some things about classes that seem to have weapons that are inappropriately powerful for their role. Technician - I just started playing this class today and my first throught is: Why the heck does a class that has the aid of a deployable turret also have the best auto of all the mediums (and possibly better than the X1, too)? Shouldn't a class that is meant for defense and support have a less powerful weapon than classes meant for attacking and dueling? I was just tearing people up with the TCN4 and it did not seem reasonable. Sentinel - It seems logical that a class that excells at range should be weak close up, but the falcon really doesn't fit with this logic. When using the Nova Blaster I have a decent chance to survive long enough to retreat (which is how most sniper-style classes seem to work in other games), but the Falcon can stand up to almost any enemy. This doesn't seem right. Pathfinder - When used against a heavy, the Light SF or Dueling SF have such knockback and fast reload that LD can just keep you bouncing until you die. It's not so much the damage that these deal (that seems okay), but the extreme knockback couples with the rate of fire feel like they are way too much for a class that mostly should use it to boost and clear the stand when coming in for a cap. What are other people's thoughts on these observations?
Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:50 pm

aranhar Alpha Tester Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:28 am Posts: 2	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. ElricVIII wrote: Allow me to preface this by saying I have no problem with autos and I'm not just whining that things that kill me are OP. With that out of the way, I would like to say some things about classes that seem to have weapons that are inappropriately powerful for their role. Technician - I just started playing this class today and my first throught is: Why the heck does a class that has the aid of a deployable turret also have the best auto of all the mediums (and possibly better than the X1, too)? Shouldn't a class that is meant for defense and support have a less powerful weapon than classes meant for attacking and dueling? I was just tearing people up with the TCN4 and it did not seem reasonable. Sentinel - It seems logical that a class that excells at range should be weak close up, but the falcon really doesn't fit with this logic. When using the Nova Blaster I have a decent chance to survive long enough to retreat (which is how most sniper-style classes seem to work in other games), but the Falcon can stand up to almost any enemy. This doesn't seem right. Pathfinder - When used against a heavy, the Light SF or Dueling SF have such knockback and fast reload that LD can just keep you bouncing until you die. It's not so much the damage that these deal (that seems okay), but the extreme knockback couples with the rate of fire feel like they are way too much for a class that mostly should use it to boost and clear the stand when coming in for a cap. What are other people's thoughts on these observations? Technician: Yes i certainly agree that the TCN4 is too strong not only as a gun for the Tech but overall. I consider it the hands down strongest auto in the game (except for the chainguns ofc). A general tonedown or ressistance is needed for especially heavies vs automatics as they just rip them apart with no effort. Sentinel: The Falcon is a good gun but it is the weakest auto in the game and what most people dont get is that the Sentinel only has 900 HP so even though the Falcon is a good gun the Sentinel is pretty much the hands down worst duelist in the game. Alot of people has had very aggrivated opinions against the Falcon but truth be told as many later discovered is that Sentinels really are in a major disadvantage in dueling situations. Pathfinder: The most played class in the game and for good reasons. The LSF has a higher velocity rate then the heavy fusors and very high rate of fire and is the easiest SF to blueplate with. The knockback has been criticised before as it can quite easily push away HOFs with little effort while still maintaining great DPS. The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF. Thats my view on things and ive played since early beta.
Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:38 pm

spacecowboy87 Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:10 am Posts: 105	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. aranhar wrote: The LSF has a higher velocity rate then the heavy fusors and very high rate of fire and is the easiest SF to blueplate with. All spinfusor velocities were normalized a few patches back. No spinfusors have higher velocities than others from a stand still. That said, spinfusors will inherit 50% of your forward velocity when you fire. Under the assumption that light classes are moving faster than heavier classes on average, even during dueling situations, light spinfusor rounds probably have a higher average velocity than heavier variants. The difference is likely negligible though in all practicality.
Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:54 pm

illerFFN Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm Posts: 1174	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. Here's the only real issue: Quote: The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF. 100% agree with this as I've transitioned straight from a failed Chase to a 240+ flag grab with no one stopping it. It's way too easy. Last edited by illerFFN on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:12 pm

ElricVIII Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 3:20 pm Posts: 285	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. aranhar wrote: Sentinel: The Falcon is a good gun but it is the weakest auto in the game and what most people dont get is that the Sentinel only has 900 HP so even though the Falcon is a good gun the Sentinel is pretty much the hands down worst duelist in the game. Alot of people has had very aggrivated opinions against the Falcon but truth be told as many later discovered is that Sentinels really are in a major disadvantage in dueling situations. I have actually completed the Sentinel (pro-tip: avoid the BXT-1A like the plague) and the lack of HP is only a minor drawback. True, I can't out-duel a LMG Jug ot DMB, but one sniper shot plus the falcon can take out most medium classes unless they surprise me. Now, I am a relatively competent player, but I feel like I do better than I should with that gun. aranhar wrote: Pathfinder: The most played class in the game and for good reasons. The LSF has a higher velocity rate then the heavy fusors and very high rate of fire and is the easiest SF to blueplate with. The knockback has been criticised before as it can quite easily push away HOFs with little effort while still maintaining great DPS. The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF. I definately understand this. I really dislike capping, in favor of LD, but it's true that games can be dominated by one good capper. illerFFN wrote: OP is obviously a Heavy that got outplayed.... I've actually completed Sentinel, Raider, Soldier, Juggernaut, and Brute. I am halfway through PTH and started on Tech. But thanks for the ad hominem, it's always nice to read comments by someone that is obviously not a smug pedant. As a side note, I've tried out the Bolt Launcer on PTH and that weapon is also amazing at dueling. If all Spinfusors were that good, I bet there wouldn't be so much auto hate. The slight arcing hardly makes a difference.
Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:10 pm

illerFFN Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm Posts: 1174	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. Have it your way... but people are still going to be thinking it
Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:12 pm

freeeemp Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:01 pm Posts: 31	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. illerFFN wrote: Here's the only real issue: Quote: The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF. 100% agree with this as I've transitioned straight from a failed Chase to a 240+ flag grab with no one stopping it. It's way too easy. Gotta disagree here. If a single really good HoF (very rare, I know .. they're sorta like unicorns in a pub - you've heard of them, you've possibly even seen one but didn't recognize him) is on the other team, you aren't grabbing sh*t without someone distracting him for you. Period. (unless midgame, where anyone at all can strike .. not PTH specific). Most pub games though, any retard in any armor that has no business even touching the flagstand can be a flag runner (soldier, brute, etc) and make it home just fine. Having played chase & sporadic cap open beta until the LAR nerf i just gotta say God bless the good HoF's. It's unforgiving and crappy and there aren't many but when you luck into a good one on a pub, always tag him for later. It probably doesn't help that the Steam release only has $10 bundles for all the PTH unlocks. They should have had $10 'critical unlocks' bundles for every single class .. maybe limit it to one or two purchases. OP's problem isn't the cappers, it's lack of pub chase and HoF b/c those are hard and take practice .. the noobs just wanna shoot things. oh, and go see "Ted." The entire movie is as good as the trailers.
Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:56 pm

Aranha Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:50 am Posts: 1426 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. freeeemp wrote: illerFFN wrote: Here's the only real issue: Quote: The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF. 100% agree with this as I've transitioned straight from a failed Chase to a 240+ flag grab with no one stopping it. It's way too easy. Gotta disagree here. If a single really good HoF (very rare, I know .. they're sorta like unicorns in a pub - you've heard of them, you've possibly even seen one but didn't recognize him) is on the other team, you aren't grabbing sh*t without someone distracting him for you. Period. (unless midgame, where anyone at all can strike .. not PTH specific). Most pub games though, any retard in any armor that has no business even touching the flagstand can be a flag runner (soldier, brute, etc) and make it home just fine. Having played chase & sporadic cap open beta until the LAR nerf i just gotta say God bless the good HoF's. It's unforgiving and crappy and there aren't many but when you luck into a good one on a pub, always tag him for later. It probably doesn't help that the Steam release only has $10 bundles for all the PTH unlocks. They should have had $10 'critical unlocks' bundles for every single class .. maybe limit it to one or two purchases. OP's problem isn't the cappers, it's lack of pub chase and HoF b/c those are hard and take practice .. the noobs just wanna shoot things. oh, and go see "Ted." The entire movie is as good as the trailers. I think the HOF issue in pubs is that the PTH is a really easy class to master while really good HOF play is hard and often easily disrupted unless you have somekind of competense on your team for taking out juggs and other annoyances while a good PTH can just singlehandedly win games with very often little effort. Thus why i dont play CTF anymore PS: Glad to hear Ted was worth the watch! Looking forward to it _________________ EU London - [iSMG] Karmasutra Karma's Data Thread! Weapon Data & Test Lab Melanious wrote: I guess the T:A jets could get me that high, being my hamster self. It feeds off my scurrying hamster leg power.
Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:02 am

TheBoz Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:43 pm Posts: 294 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Steam Gamer Name: The Boz	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. Thing is, you don't even have to be GOOD, you just need to master one simple skill: the ability to accelerate to 200+, and fire a spinfusor disk at the flag stand. _________________ MAKE LOVE, NOT SPAM!
Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:06 am

ebonyknife Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 6:17 am Posts: 519	Re: Too much offensive power on some classes. tech only gets one gun, has to be good. unless you get sparrow or shotgun or whatever, but not as good as having an explosive secondary Quote: I think the HOF issue in pubs is that the PTH is a really easy class to master while really good HOF play is hard and often easily disrupted unless you have somekind of competense on your team for taking out juggs and other annoyances while a good PTH can just singlehandedly win games with very often little effort. Thus why i dont play CTF anymore both classes are hard to master. but hofs definitely easier for noobs, most people can't run a cap route to save their lives it seems, being a hof is comparatively easy. _________________ Autos are fine, stop bitchin
Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:08 am

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Too much offensive power on some classes.

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ElricVIII

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 3:20 pm
Posts: 285

Too much offensive power on some classes.

Allow me to preface this by saying I have no problem with autos and I'm not just whining that things that kill me are OP. With that out of the way, I would like to say some things about classes that seem to have weapons that are inappropriately powerful for their role.

Technician - I just started playing this class today and my first throught is: Why the heck does a class that has the aid of a deployable turret also have the best auto of all the mediums (and possibly better than the X1, too)? Shouldn't a class that is meant for defense and support have a less powerful weapon than classes meant for attacking and dueling? I was just tearing people up with the TCN4 and it did not seem reasonable.

Sentinel - It seems logical that a class that excells at range should be weak close up, but the falcon really doesn't fit with this logic. When using the Nova Blaster I have a decent chance to survive long enough to retreat (which is how most sniper-style classes seem to work in other games), but the Falcon can stand up to almost any enemy. This doesn't seem right.

Pathfinder - When used against a heavy, the Light SF or Dueling SF have such knockback and fast reload that LD can just keep you bouncing until you die. It's not so much the damage that these deal (that seems okay), but the extreme knockback couples with the rate of fire feel like they are way too much for a class that mostly should use it to boost and clear the stand when coming in for a cap.

What are other people's thoughts on these observations?

Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:50 pm

aranhar

Alpha Tester

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 2

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

ElricVIII wrote:

Technician: Yes i certainly agree that the TCN4 is too strong not only as a gun for the Tech but overall. I consider it the hands down strongest auto in the game (except for the chainguns ofc). A general tonedown or ressistance is needed for especially heavies vs automatics as they just rip them apart with no effort.

Sentinel: The Falcon is a good gun but it is the weakest auto in the game and what most people dont get is that the Sentinel only has 900 HP so even though the Falcon is a good gun the Sentinel is pretty much the hands down worst duelist in the game. Alot of people has had very aggrivated opinions against the Falcon but truth be told as many later discovered is that Sentinels really are in a major disadvantage in dueling situations.

Pathfinder: The most played class in the game and for good reasons. The LSF has a higher velocity rate then the heavy fusors and very high rate of fire and is the easiest SF to blueplate with. The knockback has been criticised before as it can quite easily push away HOFs with little effort while still maintaining great DPS. The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF.

Thats my view on things and ive played since early beta.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:38 pm

spacecowboy87

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:10 am
Posts: 105

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

aranhar wrote:

The LSF has a higher velocity rate then the heavy fusors and very high rate of fire and is the easiest SF to blueplate with.

All spinfusor velocities were normalized a few patches back. No spinfusors have higher velocities than others from a stand still.

That said, spinfusors will inherit 50% of your forward velocity when you fire. Under the assumption that light classes are moving faster than heavier classes on average, even during dueling situations, light spinfusor rounds probably have a higher average velocity than heavier variants. The difference is likely negligible though in all practicality.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:54 pm

illerFFN

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1174

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

Here's the only real issue:

Quote:

The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF.

100% agree with this as I've transitioned straight from a failed Chase to a 240+ flag grab with no one stopping it. It's way too easy.

Last edited by illerFFN on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:12 pm

ElricVIII

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 3:20 pm
Posts: 285

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

aranhar wrote:

Sentinel: The Falcon is a good gun but it is the weakest auto in the game and what most people dont get is that the Sentinel only has 900 HP so even though the Falcon is a good gun the Sentinel is pretty much the hands down worst duelist in the game. Alot of people has had very aggrivated opinions against the Falcon but truth be told as many later discovered is that Sentinels really are in a major disadvantage in dueling situations.

I have actually completed the Sentinel (pro-tip: avoid the BXT-1A like the plague) and the lack of HP is only a minor drawback. True, I can't out-duel a LMG Jug ot DMB, but one sniper shot plus the falcon can take out most medium classes unless they surprise me. Now, I am a relatively competent player, but I feel like I do better than I should with that gun.

aranhar wrote:

Pathfinder: The most played class in the game and for good reasons. The LSF has a higher velocity rate then the heavy fusors and very high rate of fire and is the easiest SF to blueplate with. The knockback has been criticised before as it can quite easily push away HOFs with little effort while still maintaining great DPS. The big issue with the PTH isnt really his knockback but rather what he is as he is singlehandedly the gamewinning CTF class in the game due to chasing being broken and PTHs having no issues at all removing flag defenses on their own. In my opinion the Light Bolt Launcher is probably one of the strongest weapons in the game and alot easier to use then the LSF.

I definately understand this. I really dislike capping, in favor of LD, but it's true that games can be dominated by one good capper.

illerFFN wrote:

OP is obviously a Heavy that got outplayed....

I've actually completed Sentinel, Raider, Soldier, Juggernaut, and Brute. I am halfway through PTH and started on Tech. But thanks for the ad hominem, it's always nice to read comments by someone that is obviously not a smug pedant.

As a side note, I've tried out the Bolt Launcer on PTH and that weapon is also amazing at dueling. If all Spinfusors were that good, I bet there wouldn't be so much auto hate. The slight arcing hardly makes a difference.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:10 pm

illerFFN

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1174

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

Have it your way... but people are still going to be thinking it

Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:12 pm

freeeemp

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:01 pm
Posts: 31

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

illerFFN wrote:

Here's the only real issue:

Quote:

100% agree with this as I've transitioned straight from a failed Chase to a 240+ flag grab with no one stopping it. It's way too easy.

Gotta disagree here. If a single really good HoF (very rare, I know .. they're sorta like unicorns in a pub - you've heard of them, you've possibly even seen one but didn't recognize him) is on the other team, you aren't grabbing sh*t without someone distracting him for you. Period. (unless midgame, where anyone at all can strike .. not PTH specific).

Most pub games though, any retard in any armor that has no business even touching the flagstand can be a flag runner (soldier, brute, etc) and make it home just fine. Having played chase & sporadic cap open beta until the LAR nerf i just gotta say God bless the good HoF's. It's unforgiving and crappy and there aren't many but when you luck into a good one on a pub, always tag him for later.

It probably doesn't help that the Steam release only has $10 bundles for all the PTH unlocks. They should have had $10 'critical unlocks' bundles for every single class .. maybe limit it to one or two purchases. OP's problem isn't the cappers, it's lack of pub chase and HoF b/c those are hard and take practice .. the noobs just wanna shoot things.

oh, and go see "Ted." The entire movie is as good as the trailers.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:56 pm

Aranha

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:50 am
Posts: 1426
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

freeeemp wrote:

illerFFN wrote:

Here's the only real issue:

Quote:

100% agree with this as I've transitioned straight from a failed Chase to a 240+ flag grab with no one stopping it. It's way too easy.

I think the HOF issue in pubs is that the PTH is a really easy class to master while really good HOF play is hard and often easily disrupted unless you have somekind of competense on your team for taking out juggs and other annoyances while a good PTH can just singlehandedly win games with very often little effort. Thus why i dont play CTF anymore

PS: Glad to hear Ted was worth the watch! Looking forward to it

_________________
EU London - [iSMG] Karmasutra
Karma's Data Thread! Weapon Data & Test Lab

Melanious wrote:

I guess the T:A jets could get me that high, being my hamster self. It feeds off my scurrying hamster leg power.

Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:02 am

TheBoz

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:43 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Steam Gamer Name: The Boz

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

Thing is, you don't even have to be GOOD, you just need to master one simple skill: the ability to accelerate to 200+, and fire a spinfusor disk at the flag stand.

_________________
MAKE LOVE, NOT SPAM!

Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:06 am

ebonyknife

Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 519

Re: Too much offensive power on some classes.

tech only gets one gun, has to be good.

unless you get sparrow or shotgun or whatever, but not as good as having an explosive secondary

Quote:

both classes are hard to master.

but hofs definitely easier for noobs, most people can't run a cap route to save their lives it seems, being a hof is comparatively easy.

_________________
Autos are fine, stop bitchin

Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:08 am

Forum rules

Too much offensive power on some classes.