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Jackal is still OP, and PREWF
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joyrock Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 am Posts: 122	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF So regardless of the complaint vs the jackal what the OP is really saying is that Tactical and Orbital strikes are OP. I dunno the whole "I got tons of kills with Tacs/Orbs so Jackal is OP" just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Maybe when you're pulling off 85k points per game using nothing but the jackal I'll share your concern.
Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:33 pm

mogonk Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 365	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF DansonDelta-40 wrote: My whole feeling about the jackal is the same way this guy feels about the USAS 12 in BF3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rFGMatKLM That's actually a decent comparison, in that the USAS with frag rounds was never OP because it was terrible past 10m compared to an AR/carbine/LMG used by a competent player, but was nerfed anyway to appease bad players who think CQC is what matters in BF.
Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Egioh Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:29 pm Posts: 303	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF it needs the same fix valve did for tf2 demoman if you explode the stickies right away, you olny do <50% of the damage. The damage should ramp up during a few seconds, reaching its full after something like 3 seconds. also, stickies can be destroyed/shoved away by explosions Its a TRAP weapon, should be used as such. You make a trap, HIDE the stickies, and then when someone passes by BOOM.
Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Sisarot Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:36 am Posts: 218	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF Egioh wrote: it needs the same fix valve did for tf2 demoman if you explode the stickies right away, you olny do <50% of the damage. The damage should ramp up during a few seconds, reaching its full after something like 3 seconds. also, stickies can be destroyed/shoved away by explosions Its a TRAP weapon, should be used as such. You make a trap, HIDE the stickies, and then when someone passes by BOOM. that or much slower attack speed. Explosive weapons blow stickies up btw. _________________ EU-Amsterdam
Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:18 pm

Cyanistic Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm Posts: 3783 Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF Fenriir wrote: Stop playing on American servers and try using the Jackal on EU servers. b**** please. I know I'm going to get alot of hate for this, but for all I care, do it. I'm not hating on you for wanting an unneeded nerf either, now am I? Reason why it's unneeded: By the time all 3 shots land the ground, the target could've easily avoided the stickies. Standing still? VGTA, your fault. And... you got killed. And? 5 sec respawn while when you kill the INF he gets like a 15-30 sec cooldown depending on the map (To reach the enemy base again). You got killed as a sniper by an INF? You deserve it. You have a freaking jammer pack and if not, you have the mobilty to not have to stand still 24/7. You guys are still OP anyways. Always stealing my kills or messing up routes or killing my fun without enough penalty for missing a shot. Just a heads up: I don't main INF anymore. It's fun to play INFoF but that's it. It's way too easy to avoid Jackal stickies for enemy players that aren't retarded. I main Raider now and I'm very happy with it. At least this guy actually rewards me for skilled play and allows me to stay hidden even while shooting my guns. Trying to become a pro at sticking enemies with my Dust Devil and still being able to attack from range is priceless. So no, I didn't mean using my auto when I mentioned "skilled play". I only use my auto as a finisher or if the enemy itself is using an auto. Hate all you want. Oh man there's just so much wrong with what you were spewing. Please stop. If you truely mained INF you'd realized the Jackal is a straight up upgrade. Now, whether or not you believe the other primary weapons should be buffed to compensate or the jackal nerfed, is your own thing and that's highly debatable.
Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:31 pm

Varonth Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:14 pm Posts: 111	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF Cyanistic wrote: Fenriir wrote: Stop playing on American servers and try using the Jackal on EU servers. b**** please. I know I'm going to get alot of hate for this, but for all I care, do it. I'm not hating on you for wanting an unneeded nerf either, now am I? Reason why it's unneeded: By the time all 3 shots land the ground, the target could've easily avoided the stickies. Standing still? VGTA, your fault. And... you got killed. And? 5 sec respawn while when you kill the INF he gets like a 15-30 sec cooldown depending on the map (To reach the enemy base again). You got killed as a sniper by an INF? You deserve it. You have a freaking jammer pack and if not, you have the mobilty to not have to stand still 24/7. You guys are still OP anyways. Always stealing my kills or messing up routes or killing my fun without enough penalty for missing a shot. Just a heads up: I don't main INF anymore. It's fun to play INFoF but that's it. It's way too easy to avoid Jackal stickies for enemy players that aren't retarded. I main Raider now and I'm very happy with it. At least this guy actually rewards me for skilled play and allows me to stay hidden even while shooting my guns. Trying to become a pro at sticking enemies with my Dust Devil and still being able to attack from range is priceless. So no, I didn't mean using my auto when I mentioned "skilled play". I only use my auto as a finisher or if the enemy itself is using an auto. Hate all you want. Oh man there's just so much wrong with what you were spewing. Please stop. If you truely mained INF you'd realized the Jackal is a straight up upgrade. Now, whether or not you believe the other primary weapons should be buffed to compensate or the jackal nerfed, is your own thing and that's highly debatable. Pretty much this. I just unlocked the Jackal, and it is better then the Stealth Spinfusor on so many levels... AoE, DPS, usefullness in base haressment... 480 Dmg per round vs. 500 splash. It feels actually satisfying to stand a chance against TCN. With the stealth spinfusor you will just die. For example splash + mid-air with the SSF does not kill a TCN. Of course there is no chance you will survive until the third shoot, because the TCN already pooped a new turret. But at the current state of the game, imo the INF needs such a weapon. For example when clearing the flagstand, there are always turrets, and one turret is your death. It doesn't matter how skilled or unskilled the TCN is, if he drops a turret, and you get unstealthed by a sprayed bullet/splash you are dead. It can be an uncharged 10 dmg BTX shoot... you are dead. Even with direct hits, you need 2 SSF discs to destroy such a turret. No way to shoot 2 discs before you are dead. So you need a weapon, to disable these weapon by shooting around cornors and other things. The jackal can do this job, in a matter of seconds, leaving you some room to avoid the angry spraying TCN. The SSF on the other hand, just shouts, "Here I am... Shoot me... SHOOT ME!". On the other hand the Jackal can be used on medium ranges with a certain reliability, unlike the SSF, which has like no splash radius, seems slower than all the other Spinfusor and never hits someone mid-air. I felt this ingame, so I tried different spinfusors in Target Practice, and while I midaired with Spinfusor, HSF or MKX frequently, while skiing and jeting, I managed to miss 28 SSF disc even on the up-jetting targets. I don't know what exactly is wrong with that weapon, but something seems to be different then the others. TL;DR Without the Jackal, real base haressment isn't quite possible right now because of the lacking firepower of the other weapons.
Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Cyanistic Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm Posts: 3783 Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF And this is the part where I'd disagree with him, but, like I said, it's a highly debatable topic.
Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:20 pm

joyrock Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 am Posts: 122	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF Varonth wrote: For example when clearing the flagstand [...] TL;DR Without the Jackal, real base haressment isn't quite possible right now because of the lacking firepower of the other weapons. I do tend to agree that the Inf in general is a joke (at best they tend to be highly situational) and the jackal is a really nice weapon and all. Still one of my favorite classes, mainly running people down with laser knives. Primarily used the Jackal for the occasional sniper sitting on a building all game but apparently they can hear you fire it from the adjacent hill and will jet out of the way of the rounds, so its not even my sniper killing weapon of choice anymore. However .... There are far better weapons for clearing the flagstand, I won't mention them by name because I don't want to give the "ZOMG NEEDZ NERF NAO!" crew any more targets, ~.~ by the time they are happy with the game we will be fighting with rocks tied to sticks..... wait sorry I just heard rocks are OP so they have been nerfed to just sticks. TL;DR The Jackal is hardly the apocalyptic end to T:A that some people make it out to be. Hell its semi rare that its even annoying. Also odds are that anyone who does manage to PWN you with a jackal could have just as easily done so with any other weapon in the game.
Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:33 pm

FleurDeLis Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:01 pm Posts: 659	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF VashTHT wrote: A trap-laying weapon can't be an offensive weapon unless it is balanced accordingly. Gamers won't use a trapping weapon unless it's stupidly powerful in a direct offensive fashion. Every nerf that revolves around trying to turn the thing into a 'trap', if you can even charitably call something that spits out rounds that glow like magma 'stealthy' is just going to wind up stripping the thing of any useful niche whatsoever. That does not excuse its current state, but it is definitely something to be thought about. @Egioh: Your numbers would make the SSF better in all situations that don't involve praying someone is going to blunder into your oh-so-clever little trap, ie: 99.9% of all situations you will encounter in the game.
Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:06 am

Egioh Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:29 pm Posts: 303	Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF Quote: @Egioh: Your numbers would make the SSF better in all situations that don't involve praying someone is going to blunder into your oh-so-clever little trap, ie: 99.9% of all situations you will encounter in the game. Only if the inf is not doing his job, but wandering around aimlessly dueling people. Thinking ahead, planning would be of course required to use the weapon efficently. And considering only 0.01% of infs do that, i could even agree with you. But thats another problem
Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:19 am

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Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

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Message

joyrock

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 am
Posts: 122

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

So regardless of the complaint vs the jackal what the OP is really saying is that Tactical and Orbital strikes are OP.

I dunno the whole "I got tons of kills with Tacs/Orbs so Jackal is OP" just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Maybe when you're pulling off 85k points per game using nothing but the jackal I'll share your concern.

Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:33 pm

mogonk

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am
Posts: 365

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

DansonDelta-40 wrote:

My whole feeling about the jackal is the same way this guy feels about the USAS 12 in BF3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rFGMatKLM

That's actually a decent comparison, in that the USAS with frag rounds was never OP because it was terrible past 10m compared to an AR/carbine/LMG used by a competent player, but was nerfed anyway to appease bad players who think CQC is what matters in BF.

Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Egioh

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 303

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

it needs the same fix valve did for tf2 demoman

if you explode the stickies right away, you olny do <50% of the damage. The damage should ramp up during a few seconds, reaching its full after something like 3 seconds. also, stickies can be destroyed/shoved away by explosions

Its a TRAP weapon, should be used as such. You make a trap, HIDE the stickies, and then when someone passes by BOOM.

Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Sisarot

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:36 am
Posts: 218

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

Egioh wrote:

that or much slower attack speed.

Explosive weapons blow stickies up btw.

_________________
EU-Amsterdam

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:18 pm

Cyanistic

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 3783
Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

Fenriir wrote:

Stop playing on American servers and try using the Jackal on EU servers. b**** please. :lol:

I know I'm going to get alot of hate for this, but for all I care, do it. I'm not hating on you for wanting an unneeded nerf either, now am I? Reason why it's unneeded: By the time all 3 shots land the ground, the target could've easily avoided the stickies. Standing still? VGTA, your fault. And... you got killed. And? 5 sec respawn while when you kill the INF he gets like a 15-30 sec cooldown depending on the map (To reach the enemy base again).

You got killed as a sniper by an INF? You deserve it. You have a freaking jammer pack and if not, you have the mobilty to not have to stand still 24/7. You guys are still OP anyways. Always stealing my kills or messing up routes or killing my fun without enough penalty for missing a shot.

Just a heads up: I don't main INF anymore. It's fun to play INFoF but that's it. It's way too easy to avoid Jackal stickies for enemy players that aren't retarded. I main Raider now and I'm very happy with it. At least this guy actually rewards me for skilled play and allows me to stay hidden even while shooting my guns. Trying to become a pro at sticking enemies with my Dust Devil and still being able to attack from range is priceless. So no, I didn't mean using my auto when I mentioned "skilled play". I only use my auto as a finisher or if the enemy itself is using an auto.

Hate all you want.

Oh man there's just so much wrong with what you were spewing. Please stop.
If you truely mained INF you'd realized the Jackal is a straight up upgrade. Now, whether or not you believe the other primary weapons should be buffed to compensate or the jackal nerfed, is your own thing and that's highly debatable.

Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:31 pm

Varonth

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 111

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

Cyanistic wrote:

Fenriir wrote:

Stop playing on American servers and try using the Jackal on EU servers. b**** please. :lol:

Pretty much this.
I just unlocked the Jackal, and it is better then the Stealth Spinfusor on so many levels...

AoE, DPS, usefullness in base haressment...
480 Dmg per round vs. 500 splash.

It feels actually satisfying to stand a chance against TCN.
With the stealth spinfusor you will just die. For example splash + mid-air with the SSF does not kill a TCN. Of course there is no chance you will survive until the third shoot, because the TCN already pooped a new turret.

But at the current state of the game, imo the INF needs such a weapon.

For example when clearing the flagstand, there are always turrets, and one turret is your death. It doesn't matter how skilled or unskilled the TCN is, if he drops a turret, and you get unstealthed by a sprayed bullet/splash you are dead. It can be an uncharged 10 dmg BTX shoot... you are dead. Even with direct hits, you need 2 SSF discs to destroy such a turret. No way to shoot 2 discs before you are dead.

So you need a weapon, to disable these weapon by shooting around cornors and other things. The jackal can do this job, in a matter of seconds, leaving you some room to avoid the angry spraying TCN. The SSF on the other hand, just shouts, "Here I am... Shoot me... SHOOT ME!".

On the other hand the Jackal can be used on medium ranges with a certain reliability, unlike the SSF, which has like no splash radius, seems slower than all the other Spinfusor and never hits someone mid-air.

I felt this ingame, so I tried different spinfusors in Target Practice, and while I midaired with Spinfusor, HSF or MKX frequently, while skiing and jeting, I managed to miss 28 SSF disc even on the up-jetting targets.
I don't know what exactly is wrong with that weapon, but something seems to be different then the others.

TL;DR
Without the Jackal, real base haressment isn't quite possible right now because of the lacking firepower of the other weapons.

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Cyanistic

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 3783
Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

And this is the part where I'd disagree with him, but, like I said, it's a highly debatable topic.

Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:20 pm

joyrock

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 am
Posts: 122

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

Varonth wrote:

For example when clearing the flagstand [...]

TL;DR
Without the Jackal, real base haressment isn't quite possible right now because of the lacking firepower of the other weapons.

I do tend to agree that the Inf in general is a joke (at best they tend to be highly situational) and the jackal is a really nice weapon and all. Still one of my favorite classes, mainly running people down with laser knives. Primarily used the Jackal for the occasional sniper sitting on a building all game but apparently they can hear you fire it from the adjacent hill and will jet out of the way of the rounds, so its not even my sniper killing weapon of choice anymore.

However ....

There are far better weapons for clearing the flagstand, I won't mention them by name because I don't want to give the "ZOMG NEEDZ NERF NAO!" crew any more targets, ~.~ by the time they are happy with the game we will be fighting with rocks tied to sticks..... wait sorry I just heard rocks are OP so they have been nerfed to just sticks.

TL;DR
The Jackal is hardly the apocalyptic end to T:A that some people make it out to be. Hell its semi rare that its even annoying. Also odds are that anyone who does manage to PWN you with a jackal could have just as easily done so with any other weapon in the game.

Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:33 pm

FleurDeLis

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 659

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

VashTHT wrote:

A trap-laying weapon can't be an offensive weapon unless it is balanced accordingly.

Gamers won't use a trapping weapon unless it's stupidly powerful in a direct offensive fashion. Every nerf that revolves around trying to turn the thing into a 'trap', if you can even charitably call something that spits out rounds that glow like magma 'stealthy' is just going to wind up stripping the thing of any useful niche whatsoever.

That does not excuse its current state, but it is definitely something to be thought about.

@Egioh: Your numbers would make the SSF better in all situations that don't involve praying someone is going to blunder into your oh-so-clever little trap, ie: 99.9% of all situations you will encounter in the game.

Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:06 am

Egioh

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 303

Re: Jackal is still OP, and PREWF

Quote:

@Egioh: Your numbers would make the SSF better in all situations that don't involve praying someone is going to blunder into your oh-so-clever little trap, ie: 99.9% of all situations you will encounter in the game.

Only if the inf is not doing his job, but wandering around aimlessly dueling people. Thinking ahead, planning would be of course required to use the weapon efficently. And considering only 0.01% of infs do that, i could even agree with you. But thats another problem

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:19 am

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Jackal is still OP, and PREWF