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380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?
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hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? Tyberage wrote: From Tribes Lore of old on what ELF means.... I know, and nothing in there contradict what I said. It doesn't make any sense for an electromagnetic-effect weapon to be strongly affected by the decidedly-sub-relativistic speeds of your opponent. Quote: Let's put it this way, if you're using an ELF Gun in a duel, you can't shoot back, and the ELF Gun doesn't do damage to the target, just drains their pack. Was my last post unclear? If the ELF gun is powerful enough to seriously inconvenience a 300kph capper flying past for a half-second window, then it's also quite powerful enough that you can zap a dueling enemy, drain most of their energy, quick-switch to another weapon, and repeat until they die. Maybe a grenade or two as well. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:25 pm

Saeviomage Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:59 pm Posts: 496	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? TheBoz wrote: There is pretty much no active or passive defense against a 250+ grab and cap if he so much as shoots the flag stand with his spinfusor beforehand. It requires no team coordination, but needs a lot of team work to counter. No, it really doesn't. A single spinfuzor won't kill the HoF, and it's not going to stop the HoF from body blocking or shooting him either. If the HoF's placement is right, it won't even set off the mine on the flag. Beyond that it's a relatively easy task to put a timed explosive on the stand that will go off as the capper goes through. No mines or proximity necessary. Nothing to clear, no one to bounce out of the way. Quote: It can be done chained, by using multiple Pathfinders, and you'd need to stop every single one of them. Hell, a single Pathfinder can win against a team of five or more, as long as noone places a (fragile, easily noticed and hit) forcefield on the flag. Or stands on it. Or puts a mine on the flag and stand in front of it. Or kills him as he comes in. Or takes his flag. Or parks a beowulf in front of him. Or chucks a nitron behind the flag. Etc etc.
Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:38 pm

Tyberage Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:47 pm Posts: 129	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? hvcterr wrote: Tyberage wrote: From Tribes Lore of old on what ELF means.... I know, and nothing in there contradict what I said. It doesn't make any sense for an electromagnetic-effect weapon to be strongly affected by the decidedly-sub-relativistic speeds of your opponent. Quote: Let's put it this way, if you're using an ELF Gun in a duel, you can't shoot back, and the ELF Gun doesn't do damage to the target, just drains their pack. Was my last post unclear? If the ELF gun is powerful enough to seriously inconvenience a 300kph capper flying past for a half-second window, then it's also quite powerful enough that you can zap a dueling enemy, drain most of their energy, quick-switch to another weapon, and repeat until they die. Maybe a grenade or two as well. Let's just say this is a proven concept in this game. It worked great in Tribes 2. It wasn't over powered then, and it wouldn't be over powered now. The range of it is quite short, and it is easy enough in a duel to move out of it's range (HOW: Using the Spinfusor produces a knock back and would break the link between the ELF and the Target - for example - GOD THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX). It's an effective defensive weapon. Also check your tone, because you sound like an a s s h o l e, and I am just making a suggestion. I am sure this is not how you mean to sound.
Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:41 pm

Tyberage Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:47 pm Posts: 129	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? Tyberage wrote: hvcterr wrote: Tyberage wrote: From Tribes Lore of old on what ELF means.... I know, and nothing in there contradict what I said. It doesn't make any sense for an electromagnetic-effect weapon to be strongly affected by the decidedly-sub-relativistic speeds of your opponent. Quote: Let's put it this way, if you're using an ELF Gun in a duel, you can't shoot back, and the ELF Gun doesn't do damage to the target, just drains their pack. Was my last post unclear? If the ELF gun is powerful enough to seriously inconvenience a 300kph capper flying past for a half-second window, then it's also quite powerful enough that you can zap a dueling enemy, drain most of their energy, quick-switch to another weapon, and repeat until they die. Maybe a grenade or two as well. Let's just say this is a proven concept in this game. It worked great in Tribes 2. It wasn't over powered then, and it wouldn't be over powered now. The range of it is quite short, and it is easy enough in a duel to move out of it's range (HOW: Using the Spinfusor produces a knock back and would break the link between the ELF and the Target - for example - GOD THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX). It's an effective defensive weapon. Also check your tone, because you sound like an a s s h o l e, and I am just making a suggestion. I am sure this is not how you mean to sound. Also you can limit the class this weapon is used by. There are ways to limit it's use in a 1v1 situation and make the weapon more likely to be used in a team setting.
Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:50 pm

illerFFN Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm Posts: 1174	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? Myrdraal wrote: It is a poor bandaid at best. It would only demand a few more seconds to clear, and still won't survive a strike. Yeah tell me about it ...but "Poor" bandaids are the only thing HiRez actually seems interested in giving us for Defense so I figure it has the best shot
Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:44 am

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? Tyberage wrote: hvcterr wrote: Was my last post unclear? If the ELF gun is powerful enough to seriously inconvenience a 300kph capper flying past for a half-second window, then it's also quite powerful enough that you can zap a dueling enemy, drain most of their energy, quick-switch to another weapon, and repeat until they die. Maybe a grenade or two as well. Let's just say this is a proven concept in this game. But not, as I've said, as a counter to any sort of high-speed capping. (That is the thread subject, after all.) No matter what path you cut across the sphere which is within range, someone going at 50 is going to take 500% as much damage-over-time compared to a speedy-capper at 250. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:58 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4878 Location: NA East	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? No room really for a purely utility weapon, when you only get two guns. That would also promote teamwork, which HiRez seems to have a disdain for, judging by their game design. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:47 am

Tyberage Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:47 pm Posts: 129	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? hvcterr wrote: Tyberage wrote: hvcterr wrote: Was my last post unclear? If the ELF gun is powerful enough to seriously inconvenience a 300kph capper flying past for a half-second window, then it's also quite powerful enough that you can zap a dueling enemy, drain most of their energy, quick-switch to another weapon, and repeat until they die. Maybe a grenade or two as well. Let's just say this is a proven concept in this game. But not, as I've said, as a counter to any sort of high-speed capping. (That is the thread subject, after all.) No matter what path you cut across the sphere which is within range, someone going at 50 is going to take 500% as much damage-over-time compared to a speedy-capper at 250. That's IF the weapon actually does damage the target. I suggested the damage be like a backfire against the user, when more than one ELF is applied to a single target. The "Crossing the Streams" effect. The idea is to slow down a capper. To mitigate speed so that sniping isn't the only tool to kill a speedy capper. The ELF gun doesn't have to be available to every class. It can be assigned to a Utility class. The damage therefore comes from the supporting cast, and not from the user of the ELF. In T2, people tried to use the ELF in dueling and 1v1 situations. Some people were effective, and some weren't. It is just as important to learn to kill from the ground as it is from the air. You just have to learn to adjust. Just like any of the other crap weapons that have been added to this game. There are no utility weapons except the Repair Gun. There needs to be more.
Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:05 am

Warhawk25 Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:52 am Posts: 202	Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions? its ok guys hi rez has got this. this patch fixed it for sure.
Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:22 am

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380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

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hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

Tyberage wrote:

From Tribes Lore of old on what ELF means....

I know, and nothing in there contradict what I said. It doesn't make any sense for an electromagnetic-effect weapon to be strongly affected by the decidedly-sub-relativistic speeds of your opponent.

Quote:

Let's put it this way, if you're using an ELF Gun in a duel, you can't shoot back, and the ELF Gun doesn't do damage to the target, just drains their pack.

Was my last post unclear? If the ELF gun is powerful enough to seriously inconvenience a 300kph capper flying past for a half-second window, then it's also quite powerful enough that you can zap a dueling enemy, drain most of their energy, quick-switch to another weapon, and repeat until they die. Maybe a grenade or two as well.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:25 pm

Saeviomage

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:59 pm
Posts: 496

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

TheBoz wrote:

There is pretty much no active or passive defense against a 250+ grab and cap if he so much as shoots the flag stand with his spinfusor beforehand. It requires no team coordination, but needs a lot of team work to counter.

No, it really doesn't. A single spinfuzor won't kill the HoF, and it's not going to stop the HoF from body blocking or shooting him either. If the HoF's placement is right, it won't even set off the mine on the flag.

Beyond that it's a relatively easy task to put a timed explosive on the stand that will go off as the capper goes through. No mines or proximity necessary. Nothing to clear, no one to bounce out of the way.

Quote:

It can be done chained, by using multiple Pathfinders, and you'd need to stop every single one of them. Hell, a single Pathfinder can win against a team of five or more, as long as noone places a (fragile, easily noticed and hit) forcefield on the flag.

Or stands on it. Or puts a mine on the flag and stand in front of it. Or kills him as he comes in. Or takes his flag. Or parks a beowulf in front of him. Or chucks a nitron behind the flag.

Etc etc.

Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:38 pm

Tyberage

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:47 pm
Posts: 129

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

hvcterr wrote:

Tyberage wrote:

From Tribes Lore of old on what ELF means....

I know, and nothing in there contradict what I said. It doesn't make any sense for an electromagnetic-effect weapon to be strongly affected by the decidedly-sub-relativistic speeds of your opponent.

Quote:

Let's put it this way, if you're using an ELF Gun in a duel, you can't shoot back, and the ELF Gun doesn't do damage to the target, just drains their pack.

Let's just say this is a proven concept in this game. It worked great in Tribes 2. It wasn't over powered then, and it wouldn't be over powered now. The range of it is quite short, and it is easy enough in a duel to move out of it's range (HOW: Using the Spinfusor produces a knock back and would break the link between the ELF and the Target - for example - GOD THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX). It's an effective defensive weapon.

Also check your tone, because you sound like an a s s h o l e, and I am just making a suggestion. I am sure this is not how you mean to sound.

Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:41 pm

Tyberage

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:47 pm
Posts: 129

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

Tyberage wrote:

hvcterr wrote:

Tyberage wrote:

From Tribes Lore of old on what ELF means....

I know, and nothing in there contradict what I said. It doesn't make any sense for an electromagnetic-effect weapon to be strongly affected by the decidedly-sub-relativistic speeds of your opponent.

Quote:

Let's put it this way, if you're using an ELF Gun in a duel, you can't shoot back, and the ELF Gun doesn't do damage to the target, just drains their pack.

Also you can limit the class this weapon is used by. There are ways to limit it's use in a 1v1 situation and make the weapon more likely to be used in a team setting.

Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:50 pm

illerFFN

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1174

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

Myrdraal wrote:

It is a poor bandaid at best. It would only demand a few more seconds to clear, and still won't survive a strike.

Yeah tell me about it

...but "Poor" bandaids are the only thing HiRez actually seems interested in giving us for Defense so I figure it has the best shot

Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:44 am

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

Tyberage wrote:

hvcterr wrote:

Let's just say this is a proven concept in this game.

But not, as I've said, as a counter to any sort of high-speed capping. (That is the thread subject, after all.)

No matter what path you cut across the sphere which is within range, someone going at 50 is going to take 500% as much damage-over-time compared to a speedy-capper at 250.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:58 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4878
Location: NA East

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

No room really for a purely utility weapon, when you only get two guns.

That would also promote teamwork, which HiRez seems to have a disdain for, judging by their game design.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:47 am

Tyberage

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:47 pm
Posts: 129

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

hvcterr wrote:

Tyberage wrote:

hvcterr wrote:

Let's just say this is a proven concept in this game.

That's IF the weapon actually does damage the target. I suggested the damage be like a backfire against the user, when more than one ELF is applied to a single target. The "Crossing the Streams" effect. The idea is to slow down a capper. To mitigate speed so that sniping isn't the only tool to kill a speedy capper.

The ELF gun doesn't have to be available to every class. It can be assigned to a Utility class. The damage therefore comes from the supporting cast, and not from the user of the ELF.

In T2, people tried to use the ELF in dueling and 1v1 situations. Some people were effective, and some weren't. It is just as important to learn to kill from the ground as it is from the air. You just have to learn to adjust. Just like any of the other crap weapons that have been added to this game. There are no utility weapons except the Repair Gun. There needs to be more.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:05 am

Warhawk25

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 202

Re: 380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?

its ok guys hi rez has got this. this patch fixed it for sure.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:22 am

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380+ Capping Video - Chasing is broken -Possible solutions?