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Kill Assists
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mrboneguy Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:05 pm Posts: 294	Re: Kill Assists I see no reason not to give the kill credit to the person who did the most damage. Give the assist to the guy with the kill shot in that case. Personally, if I flew by and happened to fire off a burst of shots or a disc that happened to take out the target's last bit of health and only got an assist, I wouldn't feel badly about it at all. I wouldn't feel stiffed or jacked. Really, all I did was assist in the kill even if it was the last shot. On the flip side, it is a bit sour tasting if I put the effort into taking a target down to 2% and someone managed come in and splash a little damage then they get the primary credit. It's not a huge deal, since my main goal is that the team wins the match. However, I see no reason that credit shouldn't be given where credit is due. The game is already, obviously, tracking the amount of damage done to the target before the regen kicks in. Otherwise, I'd get assists for doing only 20 damage. I don't think the change here would be all that difficult to put in. Does anyone actually feel justified in getting the kill credit when only doing that last few % of damage? I know I don't. Feels more like an assist to me.
Thu May 31, 2012 4:36 pm

Dasein808 Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm Posts: 147	Re: Kill Assists +1 As a LSF PTH this is incredibly annoying. I have to work and dance my butt off to whittle down my targets and having a teammate do a ski by to get the kill credit just feels cheap. I just finished two TDM games with 10 & 12 kills and 10 and 11 assists respectively. Maddening.
Thu May 31, 2012 9:21 pm

ArchangelXv1 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm Posts: 1600 Location: Oahu,Hawaii	Re: Kill Assists It's a team game...as previously mentioned. I always say thanks when I get help killing someone. I guess this type of mentality should be expected when the devs try to bring in players from other franchises by changing up the gameplay. Even in team deathmatch...um....it's called TEAM DEATHMATCH. The object is to win as a team. I'll bet you money right now that you kill more people faster with 2 on 1 than 1 on 1. C'mon guys...jeez. It's not rocket science. _________________ Communication is a very worthy thing. Fool's Epic T1 Movie
Thu May 31, 2012 9:33 pm

Dasein808 Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm Posts: 147	Re: Kill Assists ArchangelXv1 wrote: It's a team game...as previously mentioned. I always say thanks when I get help killing someone. I guess this type of mentality should be expected when the devs try to bring in players from other franchises by changing up the gameplay. Even in team deathmatch...um....it's called TEAM DEATHMATCH. The object is to win as a team. I'll bet you money right now that you kill more people faster with 2 on 1 than 1 on 1. C'mon guys...jeez. It's not rocket science. I played T1 & T2 when they were released, and while it may not have been directed at me, I don't really appreciate the tired CoD allusion. I usually hate TDM mode in FPS games because of its knuckle dragging simplicity, but T:A TDM reminds me more of what I loved about T2 than the state of the pub CTF game atm. Yes, it's a team game, but as others have pointed out, it makes more sense to give the kill credit to the person that did the most damage and not whoever happened by and got the killing shot. People actually take the time to duel in TDM games and sometimes you're even fortunate enough to find yourself far enough from the fray to experience a 1v1 engagement. For some of us, this is probably the most enjoyable aspect of the game, which is why when you've put in the majority of the effort to the point where you're just about to finish off your opponent, and someone jets in from out of the blue and blasts them into the ground ... you tend to feel a bit robbed. Getting an assist is nice and all, but if you did most of the work, then you should be getting the kill and the "assistant" should get the assist.
Thu May 31, 2012 9:45 pm

Tricksy Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:46 pm Posts: 33	Re: Kill Assists In duel-to-death situations, I agree it seems unjust for a one-shot latecomer to get the "glory" of the kill credit. But if there's a delay between Player A pummeling an enemy to 10% HP and Player B finishing him off, I think Player B is more deserving of the kill credit. Especially if Player A can be considered "disengaged". Player A let the enemy escape, and B cleaned up. It happens to me a fair bit when I'm HoF. If I don't pop that capper, then he's home free without a chaser picking up my slack. In that situation, the chaser has the make-or-break role so I think he deserves the applause, no matter how damaged the capper was. Sometimes the guy who did the least damage deserves credit for the kill. --- Also, I'll echo the "team game, you shouldn't care" comments. And throw in a hockey analogy: last to touch the puck gets the goal. I've never met anyone that thinks this should change. Everyone just knows and accepts that a certain percent of goals are "stolen". Since it is known and expected, everyone adjusts how they value goal/assist credits. Do the same for Tribes.
Thu May 31, 2012 10:53 pm

Dasein808 Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm Posts: 147	Re: Kill Assists Tricksy wrote: In duel-to-death situations, I agree it seems unjust for a one-shot latecomer to get the "glory" of the kill credit. ... Also, I'll echo the "team game, you shouldn't care" comments. It's not about "glory," but experience. Everyone wants to maximize their experience gain through accumulated accolades, and it's annoying to be shafted with assists instead of otherwise deserved kill credits. You raise an interesting example, but it's one that is specific to CTF and I actually feel that if the target has not auto-regenned (assuming they're not a flag carrier) then you still deserve the kill credit even if it was a chaser / teammate that inflicted the coup de grace.
Thu May 31, 2012 11:21 pm

miniKAD Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:03 am Posts: 546 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: miniKAD	Re: Kill Assists I thank people who help me out with a kill, I don't care about getting an assist... However, it is irritating when I do 90% damage and get no assist. _________________ Sentinels: A guide to placing your Claymores: viewtopic.php?f=234&t=80784 (I know, something that you'd think would be obvious, yet so many people have trouble with it). Finally back after several months off
Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 pm

Tricksy Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:46 pm Posts: 33	Re: Kill Assists Dasein808 wrote: It's not about "glory," but experience. Fair enough on "glory". Not convinced XP is the whole reason, though. Dasein808 wrote: Everyone wants to maximize their experience gain through accumulated accolades, and it's annoying to be shafted with assists instead of otherwise deserved kill credits. Focusing on cleanup shots is probably an inefficient way to play, so I doubt anyone's banking massive XP farming weakened opponents. Better to assume that every "undeserved" assist is balanced later on by a comparably "undeserved" kill. That's mostly what the hockey analogy was for. Working out some complex system to evaluate the true contribution of someone's firepower is a waste in the face of the likelihod that the same crap happens to everyone in equal measure. I'm guessing it balances out. The more complex system might be more "just" in specific cases, but probably not over a statistically significant sample. In the end, who deserves a kill is really a subjective approximation based on damage done, what the target is doing, whether your teammate needed you to join the duel or not, whether your teammate disengages or dies before getting the kill, whether it was your teammate's job to be shooting at the target in the first place, etc. Without actual statistical proof that changing kill credit rules will actually alter the total kills any of us tally over time, or a reasonably simply calculus of kill-deserving that works indisputably in all cases, I don't want HR wasting time on this. Much bigger fish to fry.
Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:32 am

vxsw Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 5:31 am Posts: 87	Re: Kill Assists at first time, it was annoying for me to, but later it's became insignificantly. now I see kills and assists as approximately equal. but I agree, count a kill to player who deal more damage would be more fairly. even in spite of the fact, what "kill" means exactly "death", not a lot of damage.
Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:59 am

pala Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:40 am Posts: 907	Re: Kill Assists Tribes2 the match end stats showed stats of person who inflicted most damage with disc, chain, sniping. ex. Spinfusor: 40,5 [Kw]Killermachine. Chaingun: 20,5 [ET]Swedishchick then you checked the score list and noticed Killermachine only had 5 kills but he had made damage with spinfusor in total of 40 kills. Loved this! _________________
Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:24 am

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Kill Assists

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mrboneguy

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:05 pm
Posts: 294

Re: Kill Assists

I see no reason not to give the kill credit to the person who did the most damage. Give the assist to the guy with the kill shot in that case.

Personally, if I flew by and happened to fire off a burst of shots or a disc that happened to take out the target's last bit of health and only got an assist, I wouldn't feel badly about it at all. I wouldn't feel stiffed or jacked. Really, all I did was assist in the kill even if it was the last shot.

On the flip side, it is a bit sour tasting if I put the effort into taking a target down to 2% and someone managed come in and splash a little damage then they get the primary credit. It's not a huge deal, since my main goal is that the team wins the match. However, I see no reason that credit shouldn't be given where credit is due.

The game is already, obviously, tracking the amount of damage done to the target before the regen kicks in. Otherwise, I'd get assists for doing only 20 damage. I don't think the change here would be all that difficult to put in.

Does anyone actually feel justified in getting the kill credit when only doing that last few % of damage? I know I don't. Feels more like an assist to me.

Thu May 31, 2012 4:36 pm

Dasein808

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 147

Re: Kill Assists

+1

As a LSF PTH this is incredibly annoying. I have to work and dance my butt off to whittle down my targets and having a teammate do a ski by to get the kill credit just feels cheap.

I just finished two TDM games with 10 & 12 kills and 10 and 11 assists respectively.

Maddening. :twisted:

Thu May 31, 2012 9:21 pm

ArchangelXv1

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Oahu,Hawaii

Re: Kill Assists

It's a team game...as previously mentioned. I always say thanks when I get help killing someone.

I guess this type of mentality should be expected when the devs try to bring in players from other franchises by changing up the gameplay.

Even in team deathmatch...um....it's called TEAM DEATHMATCH. The object is to win as a team. I'll bet you money right now that you kill more people faster with 2 on 1 than 1 on 1.

C'mon guys...jeez. It's not rocket science.

_________________
Communication is a very worthy thing.

Fool's Epic T1 Movie

Thu May 31, 2012 9:33 pm

Dasein808

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 147

Re: Kill Assists

ArchangelXv1 wrote:

I played T1 & T2 when they were released, and while it may not have been directed at me, I don't really appreciate the tired CoD allusion. I usually hate TDM mode in FPS games because of its knuckle dragging simplicity, but T:A TDM reminds me more of what I loved about T2 than the state of the pub CTF game atm.

Yes, it's a team game, but as others have pointed out, it makes more sense to give the kill credit to the person that did the most damage and not whoever happened by and got the killing shot.

People actually take the time to duel in TDM games and sometimes you're even fortunate enough to find yourself far enough from the fray to experience a 1v1 engagement.

For some of us, this is probably the most enjoyable aspect of the game, which is why when you've put in the majority of the effort to the point where you're just about to finish off your opponent, and someone jets in from out of the blue and blasts them into the ground ... you tend to feel a bit robbed.

Getting an assist is nice and all, but if you did most of the work, then you should be getting the kill and the "assistant" should get the assist.

Thu May 31, 2012 9:45 pm

Tricksy

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:46 pm
Posts: 33

Re: Kill Assists

In duel-to-death situations, I agree it seems unjust for a one-shot latecomer to get the "glory" of the kill credit.

But if there's a delay between Player A pummeling an enemy to 10% HP and Player B finishing him off, I think Player B is more deserving of the kill credit. Especially if Player A can be considered "disengaged". Player A let the enemy escape, and B cleaned up. It happens to me a fair bit when I'm HoF. If I don't pop that capper, then he's home free without a chaser picking up my slack. In that situation, the chaser has the make-or-break role so I think he deserves the applause, no matter how damaged the capper was.

Sometimes the guy who did the least damage deserves credit for the kill.

---

Also, I'll echo the "team game, you shouldn't care" comments.

And throw in a hockey analogy: last to touch the puck gets the goal. I've never met anyone that thinks this should change. Everyone just knows and accepts that a certain percent of goals are "stolen". Since it is known and expected, everyone adjusts how they value goal/assist credits. Do the same for Tribes.

Thu May 31, 2012 10:53 pm

Dasein808

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 147

Re: Kill Assists

Tricksy wrote:

In duel-to-death situations, I agree it seems unjust for a one-shot latecomer to get the "glory" of the kill credit. ... Also, I'll echo the "team game, you shouldn't care" comments.

It's not about "glory," but experience.

Everyone wants to maximize their experience gain through accumulated accolades, and it's annoying to be shafted with assists instead of otherwise deserved kill credits.

You raise an interesting example, but it's one that is specific to CTF and I actually feel that if the target has not auto-regenned (assuming they're not a flag carrier) then you still deserve the kill credit even if it was a chaser / teammate that inflicted the coup de grace.

Thu May 31, 2012 11:21 pm

miniKAD

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:03 am
Posts: 546
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: miniKAD

Re: Kill Assists

I thank people who help me out with a kill, I don't care about getting an assist...
However, it is irritating when I do 90% damage and get no assist. :cry:

_________________
Sentinels: A guide to placing your Claymores: viewtopic.php?f=234&t=80784
(I know, something that you'd think would be obvious, yet so many people have trouble with it).
Finally back after several months off

Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 pm

Tricksy

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:46 pm
Posts: 33

Re: Kill Assists

Dasein808 wrote:

It's not about "glory," but experience.

Fair enough on "glory". Not convinced XP is the whole reason, though.

Dasein808 wrote:

Everyone wants to maximize their experience gain through accumulated accolades, and it's annoying to be shafted with assists instead of otherwise deserved kill credits.

Focusing on cleanup shots is probably an inefficient way to play, so I doubt anyone's banking massive XP farming weakened opponents. Better to assume that every "undeserved" assist is balanced later on by a comparably "undeserved" kill.

That's mostly what the hockey analogy was for. Working out some complex system to evaluate the true contribution of someone's firepower is a waste in the face of the likelihod that the same crap happens to everyone in equal measure. I'm guessing it balances out. The more complex system might be more "just" in specific cases, but probably not over a statistically significant sample. In the end, who deserves a kill is really a subjective approximation based on damage done, what the target is doing, whether your teammate needed you to join the duel or not, whether your teammate disengages or dies before getting the kill, whether it was your teammate's job to be shooting at the target in the first place, etc.

Without actual statistical proof that changing kill credit rules will actually alter the total kills any of us tally over time, or a reasonably simply calculus of kill-deserving that works indisputably in all cases, I don't want HR wasting time on this.

Much bigger fish to fry.

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:32 am

vxsw

Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 5:31 am
Posts: 87

Re: Kill Assists

at first time, it was annoying for me to, but later it's became insignificantly. now I see kills and assists as approximately equal. but I agree, count a kill to player who deal more damage would be more fairly. even in spite of the fact, what "kill" means exactly "death", not a lot of damage.

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:59 am

pala

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:40 am
Posts: 907

Re: Kill Assists

Tribes2 the match end stats showed stats of person who inflicted most damage with disc, chain, sniping.

ex.
Spinfusor: 40,5 [Kw]Killermachine.
Chaingun: 20,5 [ET]Swedishchick

then you checked the score list and noticed Killermachine only had 5 kills but he had made damage with spinfusor in total of 40 kills.

Loved this!

_________________

Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:24 am

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Kill Assists