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Automatic weapon balance?
Author	Message
Johnneh1 Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 am Posts: 88	Re: Automatic weapon balance? disci wrote: 3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons! 95% of the time i'm killed with an automatic, sniper or pistol, but i mainly play CTF. _________________ T1 - Bypher T2 - {H} Bypher T:V - KmA_Johnneh T:A - Johnneh
Tue May 29, 2012 4:41 am

disci Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:48 pm Posts: 1025 Location: Winland	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Johnneh1 wrote: disci wrote: 3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons! 95% of the time i'm killed with an automatic, sniper or pistol, but i mainly play CTF. I was refering the statistics HR released. How many times you get killed by automatics or explosives is so irrelevant that it hurts my heart.
Tue May 29, 2012 4:47 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4865 Location: NA East	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Not to mention with all the ATG played on CTF servers, I'm sure the numbers are another whole level of worthless. With the current weapon balance, you tell me 3 out of 4 kills are with disc weapons, I tell you fix CTF scoring. Give people incentive to interact with flags, and watch those statistics straight swap. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Tue May 29, 2012 5:47 am

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: Automatic weapon balance? disci wrote: 3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons! Those Beta statistics are all you have aren't they? They aren't reliable results, they would be if you took an exact state of a game, and recorded that without changing it, but through long periods of beta, the Pathfinder, Juggernaut, Soldier, Scrambler, Sentinel and Jumper didn't have automatics, and the Brute still doesn't. 7 out of 12 classes didn't sport an automatic, for good reason. And the game was more fun because of it. But Hi-Rez then decided in late beta to reduce the classes to 9, and give 8 out of 9 of them automatics, even if they didn't need them. So the problem of automatics, which was mainly a Ranger problem, blew up into what it is now Those statistics are just eye candy, you can't pull anything useful out of them because the game changed so much. So make a better argument. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 am

C1trom Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:48 am Posts: 355	Re: Automatic weapon balance? disci wrote: 3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons! 8 out of 10 players are trash who can't aim, or contribute much in any useful manner... that doesn't mean the weapon itself is finely balanced. As soon as there are enough skilled players in a match, 1 out of 4 kills will be made with explosives at best. Anyone who can wield the auto weapons well are aware that they are effective far beyond any other weapon in the game. You know this too, I'm sure. It is simply not balanced.. even if you happen to enjoy the benefits of this imbalance, it's wrong. _________________ R.I.P. Spinfusor
Tue May 29, 2012 7:23 am

VonSchlupeurk Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm Posts: 448	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Those statistics also show that we are our own worst enemies. The implicit agreement between the majority of players to favor spinfusors (especially in arena) makes Hi-Rez believe that automatics and hitscan sidearms are inadequate. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some of them buffed when there's absolutely no need to ! So it's a choice between making the game more fun for everyone while skewing statistics , or making it worse by playing to win. I think enough people hate automatics that Hi-Rez would not want to anger them further , so the first option is probably better. Players do have a responsability - if plasma , whiteout and upgrades were banned from competitive play , why not just decide to ban automatics from pubs ? _________________ Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.
Tue May 29, 2012 7:29 am

Entropy Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am Posts: 292 Steam Gamer Name: sianmink	Re: Automatic weapon balance? I for one would love to see: 1: those stats broken down by game type. 2: The same analysis of the last 30 days of gameplay, now that the rush of beta and release newbs are seasoned or have moved on. Spinfusors are great until you figure out autos and start hitting more than 25% (somewhere between level 8 and 12) and then don't get good again in comparison until you're pushing gold ranks and can make blue plates.
Tue May 29, 2012 10:39 am

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Presuming HiRez does collect stats and does act on them (which seems a very safe assumption) then the fact they have not made sweeping changes is indicative of either (A) automatics aren't really a problem in a majority of cases (B) whatever issues they pose are significantly more subtle than "kills everything". But I guess this thread will still have a few more people popping in with their eyes popping out in incredulity over how HiRez isn't doing what they would do if they were king, etc. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Tue May 29, 2012 12:41 pm

UniversalPie Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm Posts: 619 Location: GTA Ontario	Re: Automatic weapon balance? disci wrote: Johnneh1 wrote: disci wrote: 3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons! 95% of the time i'm killed with an automatic, sniper or pistol, but i mainly play CTF. I was refering the statistics HR released. How many times you get killed by automatics or explosives is so irrelevant that it hurts my heart. Not necessarily... The majority of kills may be through explosives, but if there were statistics showing causes of death based on player rank, you would likely see automatics as a more prevalent cause at higher ranks, as the higher ranking players tend to be better at avoiding explosions... But everybody is almost ALWAYS vulnerable to automatics. This is EXACTLY what I've been experiencing. As I get better, more of my deaths are attributed to automatics. _________________
Tue May 29, 2012 4:10 pm

Korz90 Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:36 am Posts: 29	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Cyberlink; Are you going to attempt to take the findings to HiRez eventually and try to get the community's point across?
Tue May 29, 2012 4:22 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Automatic weapon balance?

Author

Message

Johnneh1

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 am
Posts: 88

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

disci wrote:

3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons!

95% of the time i'm killed with an automatic, sniper or pistol, but i mainly play CTF.

_________________
T1 - Bypher
T2 - {H} Bypher
T:V - KmA_Johnneh
T:A - Johnneh

Tue May 29, 2012 4:41 am

disci

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:48 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Winland

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Johnneh1 wrote:

disci wrote:

3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons!

95% of the time i'm killed with an automatic, sniper or pistol, but i mainly play CTF.

I was refering the statistics HR released. How many times you get killed by automatics or explosives is so irrelevant that it hurts my heart.

Tue May 29, 2012 4:47 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4865
Location: NA East

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Not to mention with all the ATG played on CTF servers, I'm sure the numbers are another whole level of worthless.

With the current weapon balance, you tell me 3 out of 4 kills are with disc weapons, I tell you fix CTF scoring. Give people incentive to interact with flags, and watch those statistics straight swap.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Tue May 29, 2012 5:47 am

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

disci wrote:

3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons!

Those Beta statistics are all you have aren't they?

They aren't reliable results, they would be if you took an exact state of a game, and recorded that without changing it, but through long periods of beta, the Pathfinder, Juggernaut, Soldier, Scrambler, Sentinel and Jumper didn't have automatics, and the Brute still doesn't. 7 out of 12 classes didn't sport an automatic, for good reason. And the game was more fun because of it.

But Hi-Rez then decided in late beta to reduce the classes to 9, and give 8 out of 9 of them automatics, even if they didn't need them. So the problem of automatics, which was mainly a Ranger problem, blew up into what it is now

Those statistics are just eye candy, you can't pull anything useful out of them because the game changed so much. So make a better argument.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
Large Jackal Nerf

Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 am

C1trom

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:48 am
Posts: 355

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

disci wrote:

3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons!

8 out of 10 players are trash who can't aim, or contribute much in any useful manner... that doesn't mean the weapon itself is finely balanced.

As soon as there are enough skilled players in a match, 1 out of 4 kills will be made with explosives at best.

Anyone who can wield the auto weapons well are aware that they are effective far beyond any other weapon in the game. You know this too, I'm sure. It is simply not balanced.. even if you happen to enjoy the benefits of this imbalance, it's wrong.

_________________
R.I.P. Spinfusor

Tue May 29, 2012 7:23 am

VonSchlupeurk

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm
Posts: 448

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Those statistics also show that we are our own worst enemies. The implicit agreement between the majority of players to favor spinfusors (especially in arena) makes Hi-Rez believe that automatics and hitscan sidearms are inadequate. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some of them buffed when there's absolutely no need to !

So it's a choice between making the game more fun for everyone while skewing statistics , or making it worse by playing to win. I think enough people hate automatics that Hi-Rez would not want to anger them further , so the first option is probably better. Players do have a responsability - if plasma , whiteout and upgrades were banned from competitive play , why not just decide to ban automatics from pubs ?

_________________

Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.

Tue May 29, 2012 7:29 am

Entropy

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am
Posts: 292
Steam Gamer Name: sianmink

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

I for one would love to see:

1: those stats broken down by game type.

2: The same analysis of the last 30 days of gameplay, now that the rush of beta and release newbs are seasoned or have moved on. Spinfusors are great until you figure out autos and start hitting more than 25% (somewhere between level 8 and 12) and then don't get good again in comparison until you're pushing gold ranks and can make blue plates.

Tue May 29, 2012 10:39 am

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Presuming HiRez does collect stats and does act on them (which seems a very safe assumption) then the fact they have not made sweeping changes is indicative of either (A) automatics aren't really a problem in a majority of cases (B) whatever issues they pose are significantly more subtle than "kills everything".

But I guess this thread will still have a few more people popping in with their eyes popping out in incredulity over how HiRez isn't doing what they would do if they were king, etc.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Tue May 29, 2012 12:41 pm

UniversalPie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 619
Location: GTA Ontario

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

disci wrote:

Johnneh1 wrote:

disci wrote:

3 out of 4 kills is made with explosives. Nerf explosive weapons!

95% of the time i'm killed with an automatic, sniper or pistol, but i mainly play CTF.

I was refering the statistics HR released. How many times you get killed by automatics or explosives is so irrelevant that it hurts my heart.

Not necessarily... The majority of kills may be through explosives, but if there were statistics showing causes of death based on player rank, you would likely see automatics as a more prevalent cause at higher ranks, as the higher ranking players tend to be better at avoiding explosions... But everybody is almost ALWAYS vulnerable to automatics.

This is EXACTLY what I've been experiencing. As I get better, more of my deaths are attributed to automatics.

_________________

Tue May 29, 2012 4:10 pm

Korz90

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:36 am
Posts: 29

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Cyberlink;
Are you going to attempt to take the findings to HiRez eventually and try to get the community's point across?

Tue May 29, 2012 4:22 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?