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My First Rage Post(not about the perk)
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-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 5038 Location: NA East	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) omegadeity1011 wrote: Why do people insist on clicking "Join CTF" if they've no intention of playing CTF. Impossible to speculate without two things: 1) A Siege mode alternative game type where the same type of ATG game play can be played in a flag free environment. 2) A CTF scoring system that doesn't reward it. I think fixing scoring will help enough. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Sun May 27, 2012 5:08 pm

Aly007 Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:14 pm Posts: 74	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) I understand you mate. I feel the same way when I see that there are 16 players in my team and: No one is defending the flag No one is capping the flag No one is disrupting the enemy defense And the final one, our generator is down _________________
Sun May 27, 2012 7:43 pm

joyrock Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 am Posts: 122	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) ................. deep breath Don't get me started on No flag D. Most of the time when I play Flag D. my team sees a HOF and runs off to do whatever it is they are doing leaving me to deal with juggernauts mortaring the flag stand, spinfusor sniping from half the map away and occasionally a nominally annoying infiltrator. Then starts the rain of tactical and orbital strikes ...... At which point I just drop Flag D. and go fight do whatever. Having a HOF != Flag Defense if you let the enemy team walk all over them. If your HOF calls out a target ..... its probably because its important and they can't exactly stroll across the map to take care of it and still guard the flag. As for the whole capture the generator thing.... the generator really needs a more strategic roll than it has. Really its been tacked into the game because Tribes has always had it. However it does possess nominal importance and should be defended/attacked. You need to find the balance, most of the team in the generator room friend or foe is a losing combination. It also gets to me how many "I'm tired of my team always sucking" threads.... have you ever tried to supplementing them instead of expecting to be able to just do whatever you want? How many people honestly start the game and see they don't have (Insert important class) and fill that roll even tho they might not enjoy it as much as (insert their preferred class)? If you see your team has an over abundance of something and you decide to take that roll too because its what you WANT to do .... don't whine when your team loses because you had 6 capers and no Flag D. I do certainly feel your pain with the juggernaut on the hill ..... the only thing that angers me more is how often my team does nothing about them. There are fairly skilled Juggernauts who are d*** good at defending themselves and then there are the morons who just stand in one spot spamming...... more often than not its the morons. They were actually the first roll I started filling. Dropping just about anything I was doing to harass/dispatch them.
Sun May 27, 2012 10:05 pm

Oroibahazopi Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:26 pm Posts: 1139	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) joyrock wrote: It also gets to me how many "I'm tired of my team always sucking" threads.... have you ever tried to supplementing them instead of expecting to be able to just do whatever you want? How many people honestly start the game and see they don't have (Insert important class) and fill that roll even tho they might not enjoy it as much as (insert their preferred class)? Hmm, no one is attacking the flagstand and I can't cap like this. Better switch to JUG and hope someone else caps. Hmm, no one is capping and the flagstand is clear, better try and cap. Hmm, our flag is being rabbited around with no one chasing, better chase and return it. Hmm, our flag is never on the stand for more than 5 seconds, better get on flag defense. Hmm, no one is capping...
Sun May 27, 2012 10:21 pm

omegadeity1011 Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:37 pm Posts: 25	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) Oroibahazopi wrote: Hmm, no one is attacking the flagstand and I can't cap like this. Better switch to JUG and hope someone else caps. Hmm, no one is capping and the flagstand is clear, better try and cap. Hmm, our flag is being rabbited around with no one chasing, better chase and return it. Hmm, our flag is never on the stand for more than 5 seconds, better get on flag defense. Hmm, no one is capping... I do believe you've just hit on everything that's seemingly wrong with this game in one short paragraph. And that's kind of my original point, how is it that this scenario occurs so often. There's 16 players on a team, even if 5 of our team(and that's a bit excessive) are in our gen room trying to keep the gen online(unsuccessfully for some reason), and another 5 are assaulting the enemy gen room(again excessive and unsuccessfully) there should still be 6 guys attempting to orchestrate a D/capping. But even THIS doesn't happen. The proof in this is that our flag is almost never being chased, their flag stand is never being assaulted, their flag is virtually always on their stand, and our flag stand always seems to have a stack of pathfinders doing the freaking conga train on our flag. I mean those 10 "lost" players are an exaggeration, there generally really aren't 10 people playing capture the gen unless it's an especially terrible team, but even with that scenario occurring there should still be SOME people(6) available to perform one or two aspects of the meta-game. And it's not like the enemy team in pubs ignores their generator to defend their flag, because our 5 guys would be able to take it down if they weren't defending it(and judging from their automated flag d being operational 99% of the game I'd say they're mounting a pretty vigorous defense).
Mon May 28, 2012 12:27 pm

Vinson Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:15 pm Posts: 231	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) there is a lot of people just skiing around trying to figure out what to do. I've suggested ways to improve pub balance in other threads, but bumping here for a +1 - this issue needs to be addressed if this game is going to thrive.
Mon May 28, 2012 12:46 pm

DarylLicht Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:01 pm Posts: 94	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) I think every frustration I've had playing this game has been covered in this thread. Can I just play with you guys?
Mon May 28, 2012 3:46 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 5038 Location: NA East	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) Oroibahazopi wrote: Hmm, no one is attacking the flagstand and I can't cap like this. Better switch to JUG and hope someone else caps. Hmm, no one is capping and the flagstand is clear, better try and cap. Hmm, our flag is being rabbited around with no one chasing, better chase and return it. Hmm, our flag is never on the stand for more than 5 seconds, better get on flag defense. Hmm, no one is capping... You know you can easily average 1200 credits a frag down in the gen room. I heard it's like a "high scorers lounge." _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Mon May 28, 2012 7:55 pm

Fiskmat Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:36 pm Posts: 10	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) The problem is not necessarily that too many go for the gen room. The generator is an objective. However, it is only loosely correlated with winning the game in T:A. One can turn the question around and ask why so few go for flag off/def. The reason is probably that the way chasing currently works (or doesn't), unless you are the HoF, you either need to be a fully speced chaser PTH or extremely skilled sniper to feel like you are contributing to defense, and similarly for flag offense, you need to be a fully speced and experienced PTH to cap. Offensive disruption and supporting the capper gets you basically zero accolades and is much more difficult than camping out the enemy/own gen room. Playing a defensive role besides HoF is also pretty difficult. If experienced 250+mph cappers weren't nearly untouchable for an inexperienced player (and therefore dominating the flag game) I think you would see more people focusing on flag play. There need only be one HoF, and even that gets rather frustrating if you are on your own and have no backup (because they have little incentive to give you backup). Flag play is currently just not that fun for many. I don't think forcing people to do it is a winning concept. They need to make it easier and more rewarding to contribute to. I personally am not a fan of the T:A mechanics of a one lightning fast capper doing 90% of the work with at most some minor disruption assistance.
Tue May 29, 2012 8:40 am

MaxHubert Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 8:46 am Posts: 83	Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk) omegadeity1011 wrote: My point is, something needs to be done to coerce(or force) people to play CTF as CTF. And that's why this is posted as feedback, this complaint pops up regularly I know and a common response is "Join a PUG" but the truth is; I shouldn't have to. If people choose to join a CTF game they need to play CTF. I am so glad your not the one at Hi-Rz taking decision on how to manage a game. I cant stand people like you who wants to control others. Its so disrespectfull the way you want to tell everyone how to play a game and I dont even think you realise that probly must of the people you are trying to, IMPOSE your will onto, are probly just kids trying to have fun in the game. A better suggestion on how to fix this that I would totaly agree with, is make an incentive for people to win as a team. Right now the only incentive we have is +500 credit on your score board, which is really NOTHING, it might give you 1 or 2 exp more lol? They could do something like, if you win you have 1.2x exp or something, then people would really want to try to win. Thats how you manage a game, not by trying to COERCE people....
Tue May 29, 2012 9:00 am

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My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

Author

Message

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 5038
Location: NA East

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

omegadeity1011 wrote:

Why do people insist on clicking "Join CTF" if they've no intention of playing CTF.

Impossible to speculate without two things:

1) A Siege mode alternative game type where the same type of ATG game play can be played in a flag free environment.

2) A CTF scoring system that doesn't reward it.

I think fixing scoring will help enough.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Sun May 27, 2012 5:08 pm

Aly007

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:14 pm
Posts: 74

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

I understand you mate. I feel the same way when I see that there are 16 players in my team and:
No one is defending the flag
No one is capping the flag
No one is disrupting the enemy defense
And the final one, our generator is down

_________________

Sun May 27, 2012 7:43 pm

joyrock

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 am
Posts: 122

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

................. *deep breath*

Don't get me started on No flag D.

Most of the time when I play Flag D. my team sees a HOF and runs off to do whatever it is they are doing leaving me to deal with juggernauts mortaring the flag stand, spinfusor sniping from half the map away and occasionally a nominally annoying infiltrator. Then starts the rain of tactical and orbital strikes ......

At which point I just drop Flag D. and go fight do whatever.

Having a HOF != Flag Defense if you let the enemy team walk all over them. If your HOF calls out a target ..... its probably because its important and they can't exactly stroll across the map to take care of it and still guard the flag.

As for the whole capture the generator thing.... the generator really needs a more strategic roll than it has. Really its been tacked into the game because Tribes has always had it. However it does possess nominal importance and should be defended/attacked. You need to find the balance, most of the team in the generator room friend or foe is a losing combination.

It also gets to me how many "I'm tired of my team always sucking" threads.... have you ever tried to supplementing them instead of expecting to be able to just do whatever you want? How many people honestly start the game and see they don't have (Insert important class) and fill that roll even tho they might not enjoy it as much as (insert their preferred class)?

If you see your team has an over abundance of something and you decide to take that roll too because its what you WANT to do .... don't whine when your team loses because you had 6 capers and no Flag D.

I do certainly feel your pain with the juggernaut on the hill ..... the only thing that angers me more is how often my team does nothing about them. There are fairly skilled Juggernauts who are d*** good at defending themselves and then there are the morons who just stand in one spot spamming...... more often than not its the morons. They were actually the first roll I started filling. Dropping just about anything I was doing to harass/dispatch them.

Sun May 27, 2012 10:05 pm

Oroibahazopi

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:26 pm
Posts: 1139

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

joyrock wrote:

It also gets to me how many "I'm tired of my team always sucking" threads.... have you ever tried to supplementing them instead of expecting to be able to just do whatever you want? How many people honestly start the game and see they don't have (Insert important class) and fill that roll even tho they might not enjoy it as much as (insert their preferred class)?

Hmm, no one is attacking the flagstand and I can't cap like this. Better switch to JUG and hope someone else caps. Hmm, no one is capping and the flagstand is clear, better try and cap. Hmm, our flag is being rabbited around with no one chasing, better chase and return it. Hmm, our flag is never on the stand for more than 5 seconds, better get on flag defense. Hmm, no one is capping...

Sun May 27, 2012 10:21 pm

omegadeity1011

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:37 pm
Posts: 25

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

Oroibahazopi wrote:

I do believe you've just hit on everything that's seemingly wrong with this game in one short paragraph. And that's kind of my original point, how is it that this scenario occurs so often. There's 16 players on a team, even if 5 of our team(and that's a bit excessive) are in our gen room trying to keep the gen online(unsuccessfully for some reason), and another 5 are assaulting the enemy gen room(again excessive and unsuccessfully) there should still be 6 guys attempting to orchestrate a D/capping. But even THIS doesn't happen. The proof in this is that our flag is almost never being chased, their flag stand is never being assaulted, their flag is virtually always on their stand, and our flag stand always seems to have a stack of pathfinders doing the freaking conga train on our flag.

I mean those 10 "lost" players are an exaggeration, there generally really aren't 10 people playing capture the gen unless it's an especially terrible team, but even with that scenario occurring there should still be SOME people(6) available to perform one or two aspects of the meta-game. And it's not like the enemy team in pubs ignores their generator to defend their flag, because our 5 guys would be able to take it down if they weren't defending it(and judging from their automated flag d being operational 99% of the game I'd say they're mounting a pretty vigorous defense).

Mon May 28, 2012 12:27 pm

Vinson

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:15 pm
Posts: 231

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

there is a lot of people just skiing around trying to figure out what to do. I've suggested ways to improve pub balance in other threads, but bumping here for a +1 - this issue needs to be addressed if this game is going to thrive.

Mon May 28, 2012 12:46 pm

DarylLicht

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:01 pm
Posts: 94

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

I think every frustration I've had playing this game has been covered in this thread. Can I just play with you guys?

Mon May 28, 2012 3:46 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 5038
Location: NA East

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

Oroibahazopi wrote:

You know you can easily average 1200 credits a frag down in the gen room. I heard it's like a "high scorers lounge."

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Mon May 28, 2012 7:55 pm

Fiskmat

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:36 pm
Posts: 10

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

The problem is not necessarily that too many go for the gen room. The generator is an objective. However, it is only loosely correlated with winning the game in T:A. One can turn the question around and ask why so few go for flag off/def. The reason is probably that the way chasing currently works (or doesn't), unless you are the HoF, you either need to be a fully speced chaser PTH or extremely skilled sniper to feel like you are contributing to defense, and similarly for flag offense, you need to be a fully speced and experienced PTH to cap.

Offensive disruption and supporting the capper gets you basically zero accolades and is much more difficult than camping out the enemy/own gen room. Playing a defensive role besides HoF is also pretty difficult. If experienced 250+mph cappers weren't nearly untouchable for an inexperienced player (and therefore dominating the flag game) I think you would see more people focusing on flag play. There need only be one HoF, and even that gets rather frustrating if you are on your own and have no backup (because they have little incentive to give you backup). Flag play is currently just not that fun for many. I don't think forcing people to do it is a winning concept. They need to make it easier and more rewarding to contribute to. I personally am not a fan of the T:A mechanics of a one lightning fast capper doing 90% of the work with at most some minor disruption assistance.

Tue May 29, 2012 8:40 am

MaxHubert

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 8:46 am
Posts: 83

Re: My First Rage Post(not about the perk)

omegadeity1011 wrote:

My point is, something needs to be done to coerce(or force) people to play CTF as CTF. And that's why this is posted as feedback, this complaint pops up regularly I know and a common response is "Join a PUG" but the truth is; I shouldn't have to. If people choose to join a CTF game they need to play CTF.

I am so glad your not the one at Hi-Rz taking decision on how to manage a game. I cant stand people like you who wants to control others. Its so disrespectfull the way you want to tell everyone how to play a game and I dont even think you realise that probly must of the people you are trying to, IMPOSE your will onto, are probly just kids trying to have fun in the game.

A better suggestion on how to fix this that I would totaly agree with, is make an incentive for people to win as a team. Right now the only incentive we have is +500 credit on your score board, which is really NOTHING, it might give you 1 or 2 exp more lol? They could do something like, if you win you have 1.2x exp or something, then people would really want to try to win. Thats how you manage a game, not by trying to COERCE people....

Tue May 29, 2012 9:00 am

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