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Pathfinder Vs Soldier.
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tonsta Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 2:25 pm Posts: 22	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. As I said, mostly it comes down to skill. People are either way better or way worse. Rarely do I come down to the last bit of health in a battle. Mostly it is multiple opponents that I have trouble with, because I normally have to use the thumper to dispatch the first player quickly. I honestly find it hard to believe that a pathfinder would get the best of me on a regular basis. I have yet to run into this, unless they are running with a buddy and I'm all alone.
Tue May 15, 2012 5:49 pm

Frostiken Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am Posts: 1045	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. I'm unsurprised that people aren't finding the Pathfinder lethal because probably only one in ten that I come across actually pull out their LAR. I think most forget they have it. Until I joined Club Autofire, I almost never used it too.
Tue May 15, 2012 6:21 pm

TDude Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:15 pm Posts: 209	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. Frostiken wrote: I'm unsurprised that people aren't finding the Pathfinder lethal because probably only one in ten that I come across actually pull out their LAR. I think most forget they have it. Until I joined Club Autofire, I almost never used it too. Yeah, the LAR is pretty amazing. I'm a primarily defensively player who plays almost exclusively path and soldier. Once I got proficient with all the loadouts of those classes, I hit the same conclusion as most players: the path is better. It has to do with a lot more than just the LAR tho. The whole package brings out some subtle things. So, there are basically two parts to playing LD: dealing with cappers and dealing with attackers. There is one loadout for path that allows you to deal with both, while the soldier is left with two different loadouts to deal with the two different things. The soldier uses the AR/DX + quick draw to really be able to compete well with raiders and juggs, but he uses the fusor + egocentric to both burst better at the stand and have enough mobility to chase. The path can just use Bolt/LAR + quick draw. They have enough damage with the LAR to help doomies fight off raiders and juggs, with good burst from the bolt and quick draw. This is a better damage form of the AR/DX quickdraw soldier. Nitrons allow you to try to stop grabs at the stand, and combined with thrust pack give great chasing mobility even without egocentric. On top of that, you can get back into position faster after death, which is very important for defense. After all that, I still play soldier more often on flag D. I find it very satisfying to proximity grenade + fusor the stand when pub cappers are coming in. Playing path and nitron'ing the stand is effective, but it's just not as fun as outright killing them As for some of the other modes, the disparity isn't the same, if it's there at all. In TDM there is enough chaos that different kinds of mobility are prized, and health is more valued than in CTF. It's easier to ambush people in TDM, which can make certain balance problems go away. Brute for example is actually amazing at ambushing a path if you have nova colt and quick draw. I play around with that for kicks sometimes and getting the 1-2 punch of a fusor splash hit to one-shot nova kill is very fun. The close quarters and higher player density in TDM and arena favors the soldier more than the path from a numbers perspective. If you were to pit 10 AR/DX quickdraw soldiers vs 10 BL/LAR quickdraw paths all with good aim, the 500 extra health from the soldiers is likely to make up for the minor differences in damage, and mobility matters a lot less in that type of slugfest.
Tue May 15, 2012 7:07 pm

Frostiken Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am Posts: 1045	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. You know what's scary? Think about what HiRez is going to give the Pathfinder for their inevitable utlra-imbalanced class pack. I honestly can't think of anything they need that they don't already have, unless you just took stupid pills and gave them extremely powerful, unique weapons they have zero business using and would be better suited to help out other classes that need it more, like gave them the ELF gun and Buckler. A class-based FPS should be balanced such that you have an equal distribution across all classes, and having too many of one puts you at a severe disadvantage. Right now, if half your team aren't Pathfinders, you're, as they say, "doing it wrong".
Tue May 15, 2012 7:16 pm

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. Flag decoy pack. When activated, you appear to have the enemy flag on your back, and your HUD icon is visible to all enemies. Allows one Pathfinder to escort another and confuse all the people who bother to try to chase. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Tue May 15, 2012 7:58 pm

tonsta Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 2:25 pm Posts: 22	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. hvcterr wrote: Flag decoy pack. When activated, you appear to have the enemy flag on your back, and your HUD icon is visible to all enemies. Allows one Pathfinder to escort another and confuse all the people who bother to try to chase. Although that would completely unbalance things, that is an awesome idea. Just don't let HiRez see it!
Tue May 15, 2012 8:40 pm

UniversalPie Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm Posts: 619 Location: GTA Ontario	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. Pathfinder and soldier both 2 hit splash each other, while pathfinder keeps increased speed, mobility, and smaller hit box... We didn't need a nerf to bolt direct hit, we needed a nerf to max splash. _________________
Tue May 15, 2012 8:44 pm

Frostiken Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am Posts: 1045	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. Exactly what I was thinking. An awesome idea, but capping flags is so easy and has so thoroughly trivialized CTF that it would just make a broken game even worse.
Tue May 15, 2012 8:45 pm

TheEschaton Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm Posts: 2953 Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. Honestly, I'd rather have Soldier in most dueling situations. The LAR is better than the AR, yes, but I think the Soldier's disker is better than either the Path's disk or bolter, if only by a hair. The Eagle and LAR really come out looking pretty similar at dueling ranges, so far as I am concerned. Eagle does more damage per hit but has less range, pretty much that's the tradeoff. The shotgun hasn't been discussed much, but it DOES tip the scales in favor of the Path when dueling, but few Paths you encounter will take this gun because it's not suited to chasing, intercepting, capping, eg most of what a path does. For killing, the soldier's grenades easily outclass the nitrons, and for dueling the energy pack and/or utility pack are acceptable alternatives to the regen pack, although it's true that on a light class the regen pack probably holds an edge over either of those. The health difference is the tipping point for me. You have two 877 direct hits, the optimal Pathfinder primary situation, to kill a soldier. The optimal Soldier situation is still just one 910 hit. The two come very close, so whether or not you come out on top can actually be determined by the perks you take and the terrain you end up fighting on. Vs. paths, a soldier with a capacitor and quick draw will do very well, or even a capacitor + potential energy. A pathfinder going up against a soldier will do well with quickdraw and a capacitor, or else two capacitors (anything to help them evade getting hit even once). Flat terrain and low starting speeds will favor the Soldier, while hilly terrain and high starting speeds will favor the Pathfinder. The one niggling point I have with all this is the AR/LAR disparity. The AR got nerfed hard early on, and never really recovered (because it's more balanced than the other autos). _________________ Carrion (in-game name)
Tue May 15, 2012 8:57 pm

Frostiken Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am Posts: 1045	Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier. Yeah I mentioned that earlier - the Soldier's suckitude is because it combined the previous super-imbalanced Ranger into it, whereas the Pathfinder used to be incredibly suck but they buffed it. TBH the Bolt Launcher was fine, I don't know why they felt the need to make it nearly as powerful as the MSF.
Tue May 15, 2012 9:22 pm

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Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

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tonsta

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 2:25 pm
Posts: 22

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

As I said, mostly it comes down to skill. People are either way better or way worse. Rarely do I come down to the last bit of health in a battle.

Mostly it is multiple opponents that I have trouble with, because I normally have to use the thumper to dispatch the first player quickly.

I honestly find it hard to believe that a pathfinder would get the best of me on a regular basis. I have yet to run into this, unless they are running with a buddy and I'm all alone.

Tue May 15, 2012 5:49 pm

Frostiken

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am
Posts: 1045

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

I'm unsurprised that people aren't finding the Pathfinder lethal because probably only one in ten that I come across actually pull out their LAR. I think most forget they have it.

Until I joined Club Autofire, I almost never used it too.

Tue May 15, 2012 6:21 pm

TDude

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:15 pm
Posts: 209

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

Frostiken wrote:

Yeah, the LAR is pretty amazing.

I'm a primarily defensively player who plays almost exclusively path and soldier. Once I got proficient with all the loadouts of those classes, I hit the same conclusion as most players: the path is better.

It has to do with a lot more than just the LAR tho. The whole package brings out some subtle things. So, there are basically two parts to playing LD: dealing with cappers and dealing with attackers. There is one loadout for path that allows you to deal with both, while the soldier is left with two different loadouts to deal with the two different things.

The soldier uses the AR/DX + quick draw to really be able to compete well with raiders and juggs, but he uses the fusor + egocentric to both burst better at the stand and have enough mobility to chase.

The path can just use Bolt/LAR + quick draw. They have enough damage with the LAR to help doomies fight off raiders and juggs, with good burst from the bolt and quick draw. This is a better damage form of the AR/DX quickdraw soldier. Nitrons allow you to try to stop grabs at the stand, and combined with thrust pack give great chasing mobility even without egocentric. On top of that, you can get back into position faster after death, which is very important for defense.

After all that, I still play soldier more often on flag D. I find it very satisfying to proximity grenade + fusor the stand when pub cappers are coming in. Playing path and nitron'ing the stand is effective, but it's just not as fun as outright killing them

As for some of the other modes, the disparity isn't the same, if it's there at all. In TDM there is enough chaos that different kinds of mobility are prized, and health is more valued than in CTF. It's easier to ambush people in TDM, which can make certain balance problems go away. Brute for example is actually amazing at ambushing a path if you have nova colt and quick draw. I play around with that for kicks sometimes and getting the 1-2 punch of a fusor splash hit to one-shot nova kill is very fun.

The close quarters and higher player density in TDM and arena favors the soldier more than the path from a numbers perspective. If you were to pit 10 AR/DX quickdraw soldiers vs 10 BL/LAR quickdraw paths all with good aim, the 500 extra health from the soldiers is likely to make up for the minor differences in damage, and mobility matters a lot less in that type of slugfest.

Tue May 15, 2012 7:07 pm

Frostiken

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am
Posts: 1045

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

You know what's scary? Think about what HiRez is going to give the Pathfinder for their inevitable utlra-imbalanced class pack. I honestly can't think of anything they need that they don't already have, unless you just took stupid pills and gave them extremely powerful, unique weapons they have zero business using and would be better suited to help out other classes that need it more, like gave them the ELF gun and Buckler.

A class-based FPS should be balanced such that you have an equal distribution across all classes, and having too many of one puts you at a severe disadvantage. Right now, if half your team aren't Pathfinders, you're, as they say, "doing it wrong".

Tue May 15, 2012 7:16 pm

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

Flag decoy pack. When activated, you appear to have the enemy flag on your back, and your HUD icon is visible to all enemies. Allows one Pathfinder to escort another and confuse all the people who bother to try to chase.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Tue May 15, 2012 7:58 pm

tonsta

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 2:25 pm
Posts: 22

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

hvcterr wrote:

Although that would completely unbalance things, that is an awesome idea. Just don't let HiRez see it!

Tue May 15, 2012 8:40 pm

UniversalPie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 619
Location: GTA Ontario

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

Pathfinder and soldier both 2 hit splash each other, while pathfinder keeps increased speed, mobility, and smaller hit box... We didn't need a nerf to bolt direct hit, we needed a nerf to max splash.

_________________

Tue May 15, 2012 8:44 pm

Frostiken

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am
Posts: 1045

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

Exactly what I was thinking. An awesome idea, but capping flags is so easy and has so thoroughly trivialized CTF that it would just make a broken game even worse.

Tue May 15, 2012 8:45 pm

TheEschaton

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 2953
Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

Honestly, I'd rather have Soldier in most dueling situations. The LAR is better than the AR, yes, but I think the Soldier's disker is better than either the Path's disk or bolter, if only by a hair. The Eagle and LAR really come out looking pretty similar at dueling ranges, so far as I am concerned. Eagle does more damage per hit but has less range, pretty much that's the tradeoff. The shotgun hasn't been discussed much, but it DOES tip the scales in favor of the Path when dueling, but few Paths you encounter will take this gun because it's not suited to chasing, intercepting, capping, eg most of what a path does.

For killing, the soldier's grenades easily outclass the nitrons, and for dueling the energy pack and/or utility pack are acceptable alternatives to the regen pack, although it's true that on a light class the regen pack probably holds an edge over either of those.

The health difference is the tipping point for me. You have two 877 direct hits, the optimal Pathfinder primary situation, to kill a soldier. The optimal Soldier situation is still just one 910 hit.

The two come very close, so whether or not you come out on top can actually be determined by the perks you take and the terrain you end up fighting on. Vs. paths, a soldier with a capacitor and quick draw will do very well, or even a capacitor + potential energy. A pathfinder going up against a soldier will do well with quickdraw and a capacitor, or else two capacitors (anything to help them evade getting hit even once). Flat terrain and low starting speeds will favor the Soldier, while hilly terrain and high starting speeds will favor the Pathfinder.

The one niggling point I have with all this is the AR/LAR disparity. The AR got nerfed hard early on, and never really recovered (because it's more balanced than the other autos).

_________________
Carrion (in-game name)

Tue May 15, 2012 8:57 pm

Frostiken

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am
Posts: 1045

Re: Pathfinder Vs Soldier.

Yeah I mentioned that earlier - the Soldier's suckitude is because it combined the previous super-imbalanced Ranger into it, whereas the Pathfinder used to be incredibly suck but they buffed it.

TBH the Bolt Launcher was fine, I don't know why they felt the need to make it nearly as powerful as the MSF.

Tue May 15, 2012 9:22 pm

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Pathfinder Vs Soldier.