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Raider ARX Balance
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Vinson Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:15 pm Posts: 231	Re: Raider ARX Balance Varzoth wrote: Frostiken wrote: The Jackal does more damage to base assets than the Arx. How lame is that? This is possibly the worst part of it all, wth is a light class doing with a better version of the same weapon. surely to balance it should be weaker esp with the added benefit the jackal has of remote detonation. this is why the jackal is OP. Best an easiest solution would be to just add more damage per shot against base assets only for the ARX and nerf the jackal heavily vs people, forcing the INF to make a choice like the raider has to - be good against ppl OR base assets, not both.
Mon May 07, 2012 3:51 am

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Raider ARX Balance Frostiken wrote: The Jackal does more damage to base assets than the Arx. How lame is that? No, that isn't really true, because it doesn't take into account the special control mechanics of the Jackal. It is not really a competitor to the Arx Buster. Remember, only three shots can be "in flight" at a time. As distance increases, the actual DPS you can get plunges because you must wait for the triplet to travel all the way to its target before you reload and fire another. Because of this, the Jackal's listed DPS(R) is an extremely optimistic value that only works when you are very close to the target. (Suicidally close, in the case of a powered turret.) So in actual gameplay, you'll almost never see a Jackal taking out a turret faster than an Arx Buster can. The Jackal isn't a threat to the Arx Buster, the real problem is still the damage levels (versus base assets) which are set on the heavier spinfusors. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Mon May 07, 2012 5:08 am

spacecowboy87 Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:10 am Posts: 105	Re: Raider ARX Balance hvcterr wrote: So in actual gameplay, you'll almost never see a Jackal taking out a turret faster than an Arx Buster can. The Jackal isn't a threat to the Arx Buster, the real problem is still the damage levels (versus base assets) which are set on the heavier spinfusors. The point is though, that a light classes "version" of a weapon (which is already easier to use and, because of this, much more potent in combat) out classes the medium classes version of the weapon. Even comparing the ARX to other raider/scrambler weapons, both the GL and the Plasma outclass the ARX in damage to base assets. The ARX that is designed TO TAKE OUT BASE ASSETS. Not to mention the Plasma is better in combat outdoors (where the base assets are) and the GL is better indoors. At least before the Jackal update, the ARX was useful for punting. The jackal had to go and ruin that too though... Give the ARX its purpose back.
Mon May 07, 2012 1:24 pm

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Raider ARX Balance I agree the Arx is anemic and needs a boost, I'm just saying that the Jackal--despite its similarities--isn't one of the things which overshadows it. In the short term, I want to see at least 2x ammo reserves for the Arx. In the long term, I want those T1/T2-style base-asset shields, which the Arx should have a bonus against, either naturally due to its "burstier" firing nature and how shields recharge, or through damage multipliers. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Mon May 07, 2012 1:31 pm

TheEschaton Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm Posts: 2946 Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet	Re: Raider ARX Balance Erm, the Arx Buster is phenomenal against vehicles; I don't see the Jackal or the plasma cannon coming anywhere near what it can do to a Shrike or a tank. So there's that to consider. There's also the fact that the Arx has a flatter trajectory and its stickies can't be destroyed by enemy fire. I prefer the Arx over the plasma cannon and grenade launcher for almost all circumstances. Against turrets, sensors, and generators it is true, however, that the grenade launcher is superior. _________________ Carrion (in-game name)
Mon May 07, 2012 2:38 pm

Serosen Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:35 pm Posts: 393	Re: Raider ARX Balance Maybe I'm crazy for saying this but the ARX needs a slightly larger hitbox for easier stickies.
Mon May 07, 2012 3:37 pm

sparkest Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:04 pm Posts: 1425	Re: Raider ARX Balance Serosen wrote: Maybe I'm crazy for saying this but the ARX needs a slightly larger hitbox for easier stickies. you are not crazy.
Mon May 07, 2012 5:31 pm

spacecowboy87 Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:10 am Posts: 105	Re: Raider ARX Balance I'd get behind that. Come on Hirez, love on that ARX!!
Mon May 07, 2012 5:42 pm

VonSchlupeurk Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm Posts: 448	Re: Raider ARX Balance Arx mechanics are fine , and there's the air mail / sticky kill combo (second most credit-rewarding skillshot after artillery strike) I agree that it could use extra ammo. The plasma gun takes longer to run out of ammo even if you're wildly spraying airborne targets. Anyway , it's a travesty that primary raider weapons have less ammo than the NJ4 and especially the NJ5 , when you also have to use them on all base assets except maybe the generator. _________________ Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.
Mon May 07, 2012 5:49 pm

SuckyJack Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:14 am Posts: 79	Re: Raider ARX Balance All I can say is that if I want to knock out the turrets or radar I'll pick the Soldier and Spinfuser over the Arx for the job. Feels like it takes less of the ammo reserves and can be done faster with the upgraded spinfuser on the basic turrets than the Arx. _________________ Removing Hitscan =/= Removing Hitscan Weapons Bring The Buck Below Light Speed
Mon May 07, 2012 6:05 pm

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Raider ARX Balance

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Vinson

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:15 pm
Posts: 231

Re: Raider ARX Balance

Varzoth wrote:

Frostiken wrote:

The Jackal does more damage to base assets than the Arx. How lame is that?

This is possibly the worst part of it all, wth is a light class doing with a better version of the same weapon. surely to balance it should be weaker esp with the added benefit the jackal has of remote detonation.

this is why the jackal is OP.

Best an easiest solution would be to just add more damage per shot against base assets only for the ARX and nerf the jackal heavily vs people, forcing the INF to make a choice like the raider has to - be good against ppl OR base assets, not both.

Mon May 07, 2012 3:51 am

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Raider ARX Balance

Frostiken wrote:

The Jackal does more damage to base assets than the Arx. How lame is that?

No, that isn't really true, because it doesn't take into account the special control mechanics of the Jackal. It is not really a competitor to the Arx Buster.

Remember, only three shots can be "in flight" at a time. As distance increases, the actual DPS you can get plunges because you must wait for the triplet to travel all the way to its target before you reload and fire another. Because of this, the Jackal's listed DPS(R) is an extremely optimistic value that only works when you are very close to the target. (Suicidally close, in the case of a powered turret.)

So in actual gameplay, you'll almost never see a Jackal taking out a turret faster than an Arx Buster can. The Jackal isn't a threat to the Arx Buster, the real problem is still the damage levels (versus base assets) which are set on the heavier spinfusors.

_________________
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Mon May 07, 2012 5:08 am

spacecowboy87

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:10 am
Posts: 105

Re: Raider ARX Balance

hvcterr wrote:

So in actual gameplay, you'll almost never see a Jackal taking out a turret faster than an Arx Buster can. The Jackal isn't a threat to the Arx Buster, the real problem is still the damage levels (versus base assets) which are set on the heavier spinfusors.

The point is though, that a light classes "version" of a weapon (which is already easier to use and, because of this, much more potent in combat) out classes the medium classes version of the weapon.

Even comparing the ARX to other raider/scrambler weapons, both the GL and the Plasma outclass the ARX in damage to base assets. The ARX that is designed TO TAKE OUT BASE ASSETS. Not to mention the Plasma is better in combat outdoors (where the base assets are) and the GL is better indoors.

At least before the Jackal update, the ARX was useful for punting. The jackal had to go and ruin that too though...

Give the ARX its purpose back.

Mon May 07, 2012 1:24 pm

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Raider ARX Balance

I agree the Arx is anemic and needs a boost, I'm just saying that the Jackal--despite its similarities--isn't one of the things which overshadows it.

In the short term, I want to see at least 2x ammo reserves for the Arx.

In the long term, I want those T1/T2-style base-asset shields, which the Arx should have a bonus against, either naturally due to its "burstier" firing nature and how shields recharge, or through damage multipliers.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Mon May 07, 2012 1:31 pm

TheEschaton

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 2946
Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet

Re: Raider ARX Balance

Erm, the Arx Buster is phenomenal against vehicles; I don't see the Jackal or the plasma cannon coming anywhere near what it can do to a Shrike or a tank. So there's that to consider.

There's also the fact that the Arx has a flatter trajectory and its stickies can't be destroyed by enemy fire.

I prefer the Arx over the plasma cannon and grenade launcher for almost all circumstances. Against turrets, sensors, and generators it is true, however, that the grenade launcher is superior.

_________________
Carrion (in-game name)

Mon May 07, 2012 2:38 pm

Serosen

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:35 pm
Posts: 393

Re: Raider ARX Balance

Maybe I'm crazy for saying this but the ARX needs a slightly larger hitbox for easier stickies.

Mon May 07, 2012 3:37 pm

sparkest

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:04 pm
Posts: 1425

Re: Raider ARX Balance

Serosen wrote:

Maybe I'm crazy for saying this but the ARX needs a slightly larger hitbox for easier stickies.

you are not crazy.

Mon May 07, 2012 5:31 pm

spacecowboy87

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:10 am
Posts: 105

Re: Raider ARX Balance

I'd get behind that.

Come on Hirez, love on that ARX!!

Mon May 07, 2012 5:42 pm

VonSchlupeurk

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm
Posts: 448

Re: Raider ARX Balance

Arx mechanics are fine , and there's the air mail / sticky kill combo (second most credit-rewarding skillshot after artillery strike)

I agree that it could use extra ammo. The plasma gun takes longer to run out of ammo even if you're wildly spraying airborne targets. Anyway , it's a travesty that primary raider weapons have less ammo than the NJ4 and especially the NJ5 , when you also have to use them on all base assets except maybe the generator.

_________________

Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.

Mon May 07, 2012 5:49 pm

SuckyJack

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:14 am
Posts: 79

Re: Raider ARX Balance

All I can say is that if I want to knock out the turrets or radar I'll pick the Soldier and Spinfuser over the Arx for the job. Feels like it takes less of the ammo reserves and can be done faster with the upgraded spinfuser on the basic turrets than the Arx.

_________________
Removing Hitscan =/= Removing Hitscan Weapons
Bring The Buck Below Light Speed

Mon May 07, 2012 6:05 pm

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Raider ARX Balance