Tribes:Ascend Forums

FAQ • Login • Register

Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing
Author	Message
DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: the infiltrator was garbage before the jackal. it was all high risk with no rewards, after the jackal came out he became high risk = high reward You mean low risk, high reward... right? Because using the Jackal to kill someone is easier than using Sticky Grenades, backstabs, or any other primary weapon, and it also does more damage? I wouldn't have Martial Artist Obsidian if the Infiltrator was even close to as bad as you're suggesting. And before you ask, no. A significant portion of those melee kills were not on stationary targets. Trilandian wrote: An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better. I'd really rather not have my stealth countered by being looked at, thanks. At the very least I should be able to control my visibility by standing still. That was the original suggestion I made back before Hi-Rez implemented 100% invisibility regardless of circumstance.
Sat May 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DrEuthanasia wrote: Trilandian wrote: An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better. I'd really rather not have my stealth countered by being looked at, thanks. At the very least I should be able to control my visibility by standing still. That was the original suggestion I made back before Hi-Rez implemented 100% invisibility regardless of circumstance. Well, yes, naturally. Suppose I should have clarified. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Sat May 05, 2012 6:01 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing the risks come from the class counters the reward comes from the weapon not the other way around. having the jackal doesn't remove the risks of losing your stealth from motion mines or being rendered visible by jammers it just makes it easier to kill people standing around or being oblivious hence the high reward.
Sat May 05, 2012 6:03 pm

PROJIE Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am Posts: 294	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing Trilandian wrote: PROJIE wrote: inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better. Faint blurs typically are more easily exploited due to graphic card drivers etc. _________________ Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic team icon - #1 classic team exiled arena - #1 arena voted best player all time - t2 competitive community current best t:a player watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg
Sat May 05, 2012 6:05 pm

DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: the risks come from the class counters the reward comes from the weapon not the other way around. having the jackal doesn't remove the risks of losing your stealth from motion mines or being rendered visible by jammers it just makes it easier to kill people standing around or being oblivious hence the high reward. Using your weapons creates risks. They break cloaking, meaning you'll be exposed to your target and any turrets or players nearby. Sticky Grenades create additional risks due to their large radius and capacity for self damage. Backstabs create additional risks due to requiring you to close such extreme distances with your target. Sticky Grenades and Backstabs also used to be the most rewarding. You couldn't just shoot some guy in the back with the Stealth Spinfusor and kill him instantly, because the Stealth Spinfusor can attack from any range and gives the target no time to react. This is how risks versus rewards are actually balanced. You take a greater risk, you get a greater reward. The Jackal pisses all over this concept by being just as safe and easy to use as the Stealth Spinfusor, yet more rewarding than Sticky Grenades or backstabs. Counters to stealth don't even come into the equation because they affect all possible Infiltrator loadouts equally. The only reason you can deal with them by using the Jackal is because it's so powerful that you no longer need to care about stealth - you're on even grounds with your opponent even without the first strike advantage. PROJIE wrote: Faint blurs typically are more easily exploited due to graphic card drivers etc. Not to mention they're directional. A sound lets you know than an Infiltrator is nearby, but a blur lets you know that he's in front of you. Last edited by DrEuthanasia on Sat May 05, 2012 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sat May 05, 2012 6:11 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing PROJIE wrote: Trilandian wrote: PROJIE wrote: inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better. Faint blurs typically are more easily exploited due to graphic card drivers etc. That's why I've been told it's been removed. SC2's cloaked units seem to handle it ok, though. What do you figure is the difference? _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Sat May 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Apocc Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am Posts: 152	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: the infiltrator was garbage before the jackal. it was all high risk with no rewards, after the jackal came out he became high risk = high reward. i see no problem with this other then the old INF gear needs to be reworked. the stealth spinfusor should be buffed the melee needs to be fixed and the sticky grenades shouldn't beep alerting the enemy to take the INF down with him. the stealth class should always be one thats the hardest to play so the counters should remain the way they are but the class should always have been high risk with high reward from the beginning and ok i should have said pretty much every weapon leaves the fully upgraded INF with 90 health where so much as a light breeze will kill him Inf was fine before jackal. Powerful in the right hands, bad in the wrong. Considering the Jackal is so much more powerful than the spinfusor, it is op, since imo spinfusor was just right. Also, these are meant to be sidegrades....the jackal is an upgrade, the fact that it is, when hi-rez are specifically trying to make all weapons in a slot as good as each other but with different purposes/specialities, shows the jackals power is a mistake.
Sat May 05, 2012 6:28 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing arena is literally the worst game mode to talk about balance. everyone is moving under 200 sanics and the only skill involved in arena is jetting higher then your enemy. stuff thats balanced for ctf is going to be overpowered in arena because of how the players play it
Sat May 05, 2012 6:36 pm

Rithas Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:34 pm Posts: 733 Steam Gamer Name: AngryMarine	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing After reading the majority of this thread i'm under heavy impression people calling themselves competitive players and saying the jackal is OP are simply bad players over exaggerating their experiences and need to put more time into the game or accept they're not good at the game. _________________
Sat May 05, 2012 6:51 pm

Apocc Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am Posts: 152	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing ExigentFX wrote: After reading the majority of this thread i'm under heavy impression people calling themselves competitive players and saying the jackal is OP are simply bad players over exaggerating their experiences and need to put more time into the game or accept they're not good at the game. ......lol....this ladies and gentlemen, is why comp players stay off the forums. Driven away by ignorance and noobs, deciding that they know best, and agressively challenging people who put forward valid points. Yes. All of my points i made in the last 5 posts are redundant, they hold no truth, im an idiot, a bad player, you are the best, i should just admit im awful, and the team i play for have recruited me based on sympathy. Your unfounded statements, with no evidence, no points to argue your case, no examples of the jackal not being op, are of course correct, us idiots from the comp scene should really take a look at ourselves, realise we are inferior to people like you who are far more qualified to make a judgement and ultimately quit playing all togther. Thankyou for showing me the truth oh mighty saviour. P.s I should have not even looked at your post and just took note of the 15 (YES 15) blue plates in your signature and realised i was dealing with a badass and insta deleted my account.
Sat May 05, 2012 6:58 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Author

Message

DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

the infiltrator was garbage before the jackal.

it was all high risk with no rewards, after the jackal came out he became high risk = high reward

You mean low risk, high reward... right? Because using the Jackal to kill someone is easier than using Sticky Grenades, backstabs, or any other primary weapon, and it also does more damage?

I wouldn't have Martial Artist Obsidian if the Infiltrator was even close to as bad as you're suggesting. And before you ask, no. A significant portion of those melee kills were not on stationary targets.

Trilandian wrote:

An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better.

I'd really rather not have my stealth countered by being looked at, thanks. At the very least I should be able to control my visibility by standing still. That was the original suggestion I made back before Hi-Rez implemented 100% invisibility regardless of circumstance.

Sat May 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DrEuthanasia wrote:

Trilandian wrote:

An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better.

Well, yes, naturally. Suppose I should have clarified.

_________________
Thump... BOOM
---
My Contributions
Intelligent Turret Placement
Management tools
---
Important Topics
Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF
Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT
Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT
Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC

Sat May 05, 2012 6:01 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

the risks come from the class counters the reward comes from the weapon not the other way around. having the jackal doesn't remove the risks of losing your stealth from motion mines or being rendered visible by jammers it just makes it easier to kill people standing around or being oblivious hence the high reward.

Sat May 05, 2012 6:03 pm

PROJIE

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am
Posts: 294

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Trilandian wrote:

PROJIE wrote:

inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche

still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby

An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better.

Faint blurs typically are more easily exploited due to graphic card drivers etc.

_________________
Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man
team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic
team icon - #1 classic
team exiled arena - #1 arena

voted best player all time - t2 competitive community
current best t:a player
watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg

Sat May 05, 2012 6:05 pm

DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

Using your weapons creates risks. They break cloaking, meaning you'll be exposed to your target and any turrets or players nearby. Sticky Grenades create additional risks due to their large radius and capacity for self damage. Backstabs create additional risks due to requiring you to close such extreme distances with your target.

Sticky Grenades and Backstabs also used to be the most rewarding. You couldn't just shoot some guy in the back with the Stealth Spinfusor and kill him instantly, because the Stealth Spinfusor can attack from any range and gives the target no time to react. This is how risks versus rewards are actually balanced. You take a greater risk, you get a greater reward. The Jackal pisses all over this concept by being just as safe and easy to use as the Stealth Spinfusor, yet more rewarding than Sticky Grenades or backstabs. Counters to stealth don't even come into the equation because they affect all possible Infiltrator loadouts equally. The only reason you can deal with them by using the Jackal is because it's so powerful that you no longer need to care about stealth - you're on even grounds with your opponent even without the first strike advantage.

PROJIE wrote:

Faint blurs typically are more easily exploited due to graphic card drivers etc.

Not to mention they're directional. A sound lets you know than an Infiltrator is nearby, but a blur lets you know that he's in front of you.

Last edited by DrEuthanasia on Sat May 05, 2012 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sat May 05, 2012 6:11 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

PROJIE wrote:

Trilandian wrote:

PROJIE wrote:

inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche

still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby

An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better.

Faint blurs typically are more easily exploited due to graphic card drivers etc.

That's why I've been told it's been removed. SC2's cloaked units seem to handle it ok, though. What do you figure is the difference?

Sat May 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Apocc

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am
Posts: 152

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

the infiltrator was garbage before the jackal.

it was all high risk with no rewards, after the jackal came out he became high risk = high reward. i see no problem with this other then the old INF gear needs to be reworked. the stealth spinfusor should be buffed the melee needs to be fixed and the sticky grenades shouldn't beep alerting the enemy to take the INF down with him.

the stealth class should always be one thats the hardest to play so the counters should remain the way they are but the class should always have been high risk with high reward from the beginning

and ok i should have said pretty much every weapon leaves the fully upgraded INF with 90 health where so much as a light breeze will kill him

Inf was fine before jackal. Powerful in the right hands, bad in the wrong.

Considering the Jackal is so much more powerful than the spinfusor, it is op, since imo spinfusor was just right. Also, these are meant to be sidegrades....the jackal is an upgrade, the fact that it is, when hi-rez are specifically trying to make all weapons in a slot as good as each other but with different purposes/specialities, shows the jackals power is a mistake.

Sat May 05, 2012 6:28 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

arena is literally the worst game mode to talk about balance. everyone is moving under 200 sanics and the only skill involved in arena is jetting higher then your enemy. stuff thats balanced for ctf is going to be overpowered in arena because of how the players play it

Sat May 05, 2012 6:36 pm

Rithas

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:34 pm
Posts: 733
Steam Gamer Name: AngryMarine

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

After reading the majority of this thread i'm under heavy impression people calling themselves competitive players and saying the jackal is OP are simply bad players over exaggerating their experiences and need to put more time into the game or accept they're not good at the game.

_________________

Sat May 05, 2012 6:51 pm

Apocc

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am
Posts: 152

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

ExigentFX wrote:

......lol....this ladies and gentlemen, is why comp players stay off the forums. Driven away by ignorance and noobs, deciding that they know best, and agressively challenging people who put forward valid points. Yes. All of my points i made in the last 5 posts are redundant, they hold no truth, im an idiot, a bad player, you are the best, i should just admit im awful, and the team i play for have recruited me based on sympathy. Your unfounded statements, with no evidence, no points to argue your case, no examples of the jackal not being op, are of course correct, us idiots from the comp scene should really take a look at ourselves, realise we are inferior to people like you who are far more qualified to make a judgement and ultimately quit playing all togther. Thankyou for showing me the truth oh mighty saviour.

P.s I should have not even looked at your post and just took note of the 15 (YES 15) blue plates in your signature and realised i was dealing with a badass and insta deleted my account.

Sat May 05, 2012 6:58 pm

Forum rules

Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing