Tribes:Ascend Forums

FAQ • Login • Register

Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing
Author	Message
DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing let me guess you are level 30 + and you have gameplay of you dominating bronzes. i have seen enough gameplay videos like that and it proves nothing other then you stomped a bunch of noobs with it.
Sat May 05, 2012 4:02 pm

Apocc Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am Posts: 152	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: itt: bad players that cant adapt to new gameplay elements and cry about things being op because they get killed by said new weapons. works both ways guy. Who said anything about dying? i didnt....proj didnt, most people assess that weapons are OP by using them themselves against opponents they are familiar with, if a weapon consistently kills multiple players much quicker and without nearly as much effort/concentration than all other current weapons then it is OP.
Sat May 05, 2012 4:29 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing people on this forum say the same thing about everything. well i used the automatics i killed people hurrrr it must be op. or i used the plasma gun and got a bunch of mid airs with it it must be op, i used the jackal snuck up on people and assassinated them it must be op, or i mortared the enemy flag stand and killed the hof the mortar must be op. when does it end?? as far as i can tell by reading these forums every single weapon in the game is OP and they all need to be nerfed well except the spinfusor since that is sacred to tribes. i just can't take any of the whining and complaining seriously. everyone complains about the classes that counter them and that the class they play is underpowered well which one is it?
Sat May 05, 2012 4:48 pm

Apocc Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am Posts: 152	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: people on this forum say the same thing about everything. well i used the automatics i killed people hurrrr it must be op. or i used the plasma gun and got a bunch of mid airs with it it must be op, i used the jackal snuck up on people and assassinated them it must be op, or i mortared the enemy flag stand and killed the hof the mortar must be op. when does it end?? as far as i can tell by reading these forums every single weapon in the game is OP and they all need to be nerfed well except the spinfusor since that is sacred to tribes. Some people talk sense, some dont, just because some dont doesnt mean everyone is an idiot by proxy. I think a large problem with these two weapons is that they essentially boost your skill level. They allow you to kill people you wouldnt normally be able to kill. Which is silly, because when top players get their hands on them, thats when scoreboards start getting ridiculous and people start raging. It seems all but the very worst aimers can use both guns very effectively and can often beat players that would normally dominate them in any other weapon setup. Its the combitantion of ease of use, lack of risk, forgivable shots and high damage that make the weapons op.
Sat May 05, 2012 4:59 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing Apocc wrote: DeadCellSpawn wrote: people on this forum say the same thing about everything. well i used the automatics i killed people hurrrr it must be op. or i used the plasma gun and got a bunch of mid airs with it it must be op, i used the jackal snuck up on people and assassinated them it must be op, or i mortared the enemy flag stand and killed the hof the mortar must be op. when does it end?? as far as i can tell by reading these forums every single weapon in the game is OP and they all need to be nerfed well except the spinfusor since that is sacred to tribes. Some people talk sense, some dont, just because some dont doesnt mean everyone is an idiot by proxy. I think a large problem with these two weapons is that they essentially boost your skill level. They allow you to kill people you wouldnt normally be able to kill. Which is silly, because when top players get their hands on them, thats when scoreboards start getting ridiculous and people start raging. It seems all but the very worst aimers can use both guns very effectively and can often beat players that would normally dominate them in any other weapon setup. Its the combitantion of ease of use, lack of risk, forgivable shots and high damage that make the weapons op. who is to say you normally wouldn't be able to kill those people? as far as im concerned everyone has an equal shot of killing everybody else, also you contradict yourself by saying the worst aimers in the world but then go onto say they are hitting you with the jackal and plasma gun well which is it? they obviously can aim if they are hitting you. i see your thought process comes from you thinking the guns are too easy to use well thats not really true since the jackal is on a class that can be one shotted by pretty much every grenade / weapon in the game and having several hard counters so no the INF is not easy to use and by proxy neither is the jackal and the plasma gun has such a small range that if you cant hit the raider using it or get far enough away to dodge it somethings wrong with you
Sat May 05, 2012 5:14 pm

DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: the stickies suck any time you stick some one they just fly up your ass and blow you up with them. at least the jackal lets you detonate whenever you want so its the safer option. i feel without the jackal the infiltrator is completely gimped but i can see how using the stealth spinfusor in 7 vs 7 or 8 on 8 comp games actually works because of the smaller player counts but in a pub game its almost mandatory to run the jackal. you literally have no chance otherwise. their is just too many players and usually way more technicians then you can possibly hope to deal with the stealth spinfusor or rhino in full 16 vs 16 matches This post summarizes everything wrong with the Jackal at low level play so perfectly. It basically translates to "Everything else the Infiltrator has involves too much risk and/or requires too much skill!". Just how many Technicians do you expect to be able to kill? I'm pretty content with shredding through them three at a time without even using the Jackal, but if there's still more for me to deal with or by some miracle they happen to be good players, I don't feel cheated for not being able to handle them. I just laugh to myself because I've successfully turned the match into a 15v12 for a few minutes. DeadCellSpawn wrote: ...the jackal is on a class that can be one shotted by pretty much every grenade / weapon in the game and having several hard counters so no the INF is not easy to use and by proxy neither is the jackal Things that can one-shot an Infiltrator: Pathfinder: None Sentinel: None Infiltrator: Sticky Grenade, Jackal (two shots that detonate at the same time, whatever) Soldier: AP Grenade Technician: TCNG Raider: EMP Grenade, Cluster Grenade Doombringer: Heavy Bolt Launcher (direct hit) Juggernaut: Fusion Mortar, MIRV Launcher, Super AP Grenade Brute: Heavy Spinfusor That's not a very impressive list. Also, the Infiltrator's weakness does not justify the Jackal being easy to use, nor does the Infiltrator being hard to play. If the hard counters to stealth are so OP that using an equally OP weapon to overcome them is the only legitimate option, then both those counters and the weapon should be nerfed. That way, stealth remains a meaningful part of Infiltrator gameplay, not something you can just ignore when it's taken away.
Sat May 05, 2012 5:24 pm

Apocc Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am Posts: 152	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: who is to say you normally wouldn't be able to kill those people? as far as im concerned everyone has an equal shot of killing everybody else, also you contradict yourself by saying the worst aimers in the world but then go onto say they are hitting you with the jackal and plasma gun well which is it? they obviously can aim if they are hitting you. i see your thought process comes from you thinking the guns are too easy to use well thats not really true since the jackal is on a class that can be one shotted by pretty much every grenade / weapon in the game and having several hard counters so no the INF is not easy to use and by proxy neither is the jackal and the plasma gun has such a small range that if you cant hit the raider using it or get far enough away to dodge it somethings wrong with you Re read what i wrote..... Apocc wrote: It seems all but the very worst aimers can use both guns very effectively and can often beat players that would normally dominate them in any other weapon setup. Its the combitantion of ease of use, lack of risk, forgivable shots and high damage that make the weapons op. So yea, i didnt contradict myself, and the Inf isnt hard to use...the ability to go invisible makes it considerably easier to attack people one on one (choosing target and location) and to get the first hit, when the weapon used is a 1500 dam powerhouse that can be airburst and fired quickly in succession, then it suddenly becomes op and very difficult to win duals against. Regardless of skill. Plasma is rapidfires 10 500 damage projectiles with large hitboxes....need i say more? the room for error is huge, with a high reward for landing merely a third of your shots on target (take down all mediums and lights). And after playing hundreds of hours, you get a feel for how long it should take to kill someone, and how long it takes to kill you. Weapons that cut that time in half, but do not require as much skill as the weapons taking twice as long, are what i consider OP
Sat May 05, 2012 5:32 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing the infiltrator was garbage before the jackal. it was all high risk with no rewards, after the jackal came out he became high risk = high reward. i see no problem with this other then the old INF gear needs to be reworked. the stealth spinfusor should be buffed the melee needs to be fixed and the sticky grenades shouldn't beep alerting the enemy to take the INF down with him. the stealth class should always be one thats the hardest to play so the counters should remain the way they are but the class should always have been high risk with high reward from the beginning and ok i should have said pretty much every weapon leaves the fully upgraded INF with 90 health where so much as a light breeze will kill him Last edited by DeadCellSpawn on Sat May 05, 2012 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sat May 05, 2012 5:37 pm

PROJIE Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am Posts: 294	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby _________________ Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic team icon - #1 classic team exiled arena - #1 arena voted best player all time - t2 competitive community current best t:a player watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg
Sat May 05, 2012 5:41 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing PROJIE wrote: inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Sat May 05, 2012 5:56 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Author

Message

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

let me guess you are level 30 + and you have gameplay of you dominating bronzes. i have seen enough gameplay videos like that and it proves nothing other then you stomped a bunch of noobs with it.

Sat May 05, 2012 4:02 pm

Apocc

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am
Posts: 152

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

itt: bad players that cant adapt to new gameplay elements and cry about things being op because they get killed by said new weapons.

works both ways guy.

Who said anything about dying? i didnt....proj didnt, most people assess that weapons are OP by using them themselves against opponents they are familiar with, if a weapon consistently kills multiple players much quicker and without nearly as much effort/concentration than all other current weapons then it is OP.

Sat May 05, 2012 4:29 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

people on this forum say the same thing about everything. well i used the automatics i killed people hurrrr it must be op. or i used the plasma gun and got a bunch of mid airs with it it must be op, i used the jackal snuck up on people and assassinated them it must be op, or i mortared the enemy flag stand and killed the hof the mortar must be op. when does it end??

as far as i can tell by reading these forums every single weapon in the game is OP and they all need to be nerfed well except the spinfusor since that is sacred to tribes. i just can't take any of the whining and complaining seriously. everyone complains about the classes that counter them and that the class they play is underpowered well which one is it?

Sat May 05, 2012 4:48 pm

Apocc

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am
Posts: 152

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

Some people talk sense, some dont, just because some dont doesnt mean everyone is an idiot by proxy.

I think a large problem with these two weapons is that they essentially boost your skill level. They allow you to kill people you wouldnt normally be able to kill. Which is silly, because when top players get their hands on them, thats when scoreboards start getting ridiculous and people start raging. It seems all but the very worst aimers can use both guns very effectively and can often beat players that would normally dominate them in any other weapon setup. Its the combitantion of ease of use, lack of risk, forgivable shots and high damage that make the weapons op.

Sat May 05, 2012 4:59 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Apocc wrote:

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

who is to say you normally wouldn't be able to kill those people? as far as im concerned everyone has an equal shot of killing everybody else, also you contradict yourself by saying the worst aimers in the world but then go onto say they are hitting you with the jackal and plasma gun well which is it? they obviously can aim if they are hitting you. i see your thought process comes from you thinking the guns are too easy to use well thats not really true since the jackal is on a class that can be one shotted by pretty much every grenade / weapon in the game and having several hard counters so no the INF is not easy to use and by proxy neither is the jackal and the plasma gun has such a small range that if you cant hit the raider using it or get far enough away to dodge it somethings wrong with you

Sat May 05, 2012 5:14 pm

DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

the stickies suck any time you stick some one they just fly up your ass and blow you up with them. at least the jackal lets you detonate whenever you want so its the safer option.

i feel without the jackal the infiltrator is completely gimped but i can see how using the stealth spinfusor in 7 vs 7 or 8 on 8 comp games actually works because of the smaller player counts but in a pub game its almost mandatory to run the jackal.

you literally have no chance otherwise. their is just too many players and usually way more technicians then you can possibly hope to deal with the stealth spinfusor or rhino in full 16 vs 16 matches

This post summarizes everything wrong with the Jackal at low level play so perfectly. It basically translates to "Everything else the Infiltrator has involves too much risk and/or requires too much skill!".

Just how many Technicians do you expect to be able to kill? I'm pretty content with shredding through them three at a time without even using the Jackal, but if there's still more for me to deal with or by some miracle they happen to be good players, I don't feel cheated for not being able to handle them. I just laugh to myself because I've successfully turned the match into a 15v12 for a few minutes.

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

...the jackal is on a class that can be one shotted by pretty much every grenade / weapon in the game and having several hard counters so no the INF is not easy to use and by proxy neither is the jackal

Things that can one-shot an Infiltrator:
Pathfinder: None
Sentinel: None
Infiltrator: Sticky Grenade, Jackal (two shots that detonate at the same time, whatever)
Soldier: AP Grenade
Technician: TCNG
Raider: EMP Grenade, Cluster Grenade
Doombringer: Heavy Bolt Launcher (direct hit)
Juggernaut: Fusion Mortar, MIRV Launcher, Super AP Grenade
Brute: Heavy Spinfusor

That's not a very impressive list. Also, the Infiltrator's weakness does not justify the Jackal being easy to use, nor does the Infiltrator being hard to play. If the hard counters to stealth are so OP that using an equally OP weapon to overcome them is the only legitimate option, then both those counters and the weapon should be nerfed. That way, stealth remains a meaningful part of Infiltrator gameplay, not something you can just ignore when it's taken away.

Sat May 05, 2012 5:24 pm

Apocc

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am
Posts: 152

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

Re read what i wrote.....

Apocc wrote:

It seems all but the very worst aimers can use both guns very effectively and can often beat players that would normally dominate them in any other weapon setup. Its the combitantion of ease of use, lack of risk, forgivable shots and high damage that make the weapons op.

So yea, i didnt contradict myself, and the Inf isnt hard to use...the ability to go invisible makes it considerably easier to attack people one on one (choosing target and location) and to get the first hit, when the weapon used is a 1500 dam powerhouse that can be airburst and fired quickly in succession, then it suddenly becomes op and very difficult to win duals against. Regardless of skill. Plasma is rapidfires 10 500 damage projectiles with large hitboxes....need i say more? the room for error is huge, with a high reward for landing merely a third of your shots on target (take down all mediums and lights).

And after playing hundreds of hours, you get a feel for how long it should take to kill someone, and how long it takes to kill you. Weapons that cut that time in half, but do not require as much skill as the weapons taking twice as long, are what i consider OP

Sat May 05, 2012 5:32 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

the infiltrator was garbage before the jackal.

it was all high risk with no rewards, after the jackal came out he became high risk = high reward. i see no problem with this other then the old INF gear needs to be reworked. the stealth spinfusor should be buffed the melee needs to be fixed and the sticky grenades shouldn't beep alerting the enemy to take the INF down with him.

the stealth class should always be one thats the hardest to play so the counters should remain the way they are but the class should always have been high risk with high reward from the beginning

and ok i should have said pretty much every weapon leaves the fully upgraded INF with 90 health where so much as a light breeze will kill him

Last edited by DeadCellSpawn on Sat May 05, 2012 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sat May 05, 2012 5:37 pm

PROJIE

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am
Posts: 294

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche

still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby

_________________
Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man
team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic
team icon - #1 classic
team exiled arena - #1 arena

voted best player all time - t2 competitive community
current best t:a player
watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg

Sat May 05, 2012 5:41 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

PROJIE wrote:

inf was op before the jackal, remains way too powerful in his niche

still waiting for decent audio cue of when a cloaked inf is nearby

An audio cue woule be nice, but a feint visual blur would be even better.

_________________
Thump... BOOM
---
My Contributions
Intelligent Turret Placement
Management tools
---
Important Topics
Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF
Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT
Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT
Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC

Sat May 05, 2012 5:56 pm

Forum rules

Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing