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Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing
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DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing vuorkr-d wrote: SSF dps is inline with light armorclass. This is also in the ballpark where INF should be doing hes dmg. Only reason we're seeing SSF -at all- is because Jackal is currently banned in comp play, so people will practice using it. I dunno, man. A Stealth Heavy Spinfusor would shut me up pretty fast.
Fri May 04, 2012 10:21 pm

CrissHill Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:40 pm Posts: 148	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DrEuthanasia wrote: vuorkr-d wrote: SSF dps is inline with light armorclass. This is also in the ballpark where INF should be doing hes dmg. Only reason we're seeing SSF -at all- is because Jackal is currently banned in comp play, so people will practice using it. I dunno, man. A Stealth Heavy Spinfusor would shut me up pretty fast. Stealth Chaingun as secondary then?
Fri May 04, 2012 10:23 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing the whole argument of a light class shouldn't be able to kill medium classes is silly. the infiltrator is literally the only light class that actually has to put himself into danger to do his job. pathfinders fly around in circles around the map capping and chasing the entire game and sentinels stay as far away from any action what so ever picking off people with low health or popping the capper before he gets home. since the infiltrator is the only light class that puts himself in direct combat with the other classes he has more hp then the other 2 light classes and he also needs a weapon to compete with mediums and heavies toe to toe otherwise he just gets killed by them so easily.
Fri May 04, 2012 11:45 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4870 Location: NA East	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: pathfinders fly around in circles around the map capping and chasing the entire game and sentinels stay as far away from any action what so ever picking off people with low health or popping the capper before he gets home. The BL is too strong too. This is the problem with this discussion, people assume that when I say the Jackal is OP, I just want INF nerfs. The BL needs to be toned down. The SEN needs to not have an auto. The NJ4 and TCN4 need to be toned down. Motion sensors need to not notify when destroyed. Plasma needs a serious nerf. The X1 needs a slight nerf. Drop Jammers need a nerf. Frag credits need a nerf. This game is straight f***, and all these individual class weapons discussion only chip away at the iceberg. It's simply too easy to frag in this game, unless your a PTH running flags, and it's too easy to outrun everything. This game has so many balance issues these item specific threads are a waste of time. The only threads worth +1ing anymore are the comprehensive threads and the physics fix threads. DeadCellSpawn wrote: Trilandian by reading your signature on the forum i can deduce you play TCN and are obviously the most butthurt over the jackal. You are completely biased against it because it is the direct counter to your class. Please. Never mind the fact that I can house RDRs in the mid field with it. There isn't a class I fear 1v1 with the Jackal. There's something wrong with that. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Sat May 05, 2012 5:44 am

AxeltheDarkHero Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:47 am Posts: 12	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: the whole argument of a light class shouldn't be able to kill medium classes is silly. the infiltrator is literally the only light class that actually has to put himself into danger to do his job. pathfinders fly around in circles around the map capping and chasing the entire game and sentinels stay as far away from any action what so ever picking off people with low health or popping the capper before he gets home. since the infiltrator is the only light class that puts himself in direct combat with the other classes he has more hp then the other 2 light classes and he also needs a weapon to compete with mediums and heavies toe to toe otherwise he just gets killed by them so easily. I'm fine with Lights being able to kill Mediums and Heavies, but what's wrong is that it's an almost instantaneous death with no chance to react with no real effort by the Infiltrator like a Backstab would take. If I don't know an Infiltrator is around, with the Rhino and the Stealth Spinfusor, I would be at a disadvantage because of the extra hit(s), but if I'm a Light/Medium class and he has a Jackal, I'm dead before I even had a chance to process the sound the Jackal makes. Edit: That is if he's even using his weapon to catch me off guard, I haven't played Infiltrator too much, but I assume Stickies would be a more suitable ambushing technique, but why do that when you can get better results with the Jackal and save your Stickies. On the other topic of discussion, the Plasma gun (which I've been using a lot), it's pretty broken but I was able to do my routine of Generator raiding and killing almost as well with Juggernaut. I'm kind of surprised the Plasma gun isn't a "Direct Hit" of T:A, the description flaunts that it's good for midairs, but it's good for everything else too since it has moderate splash, it seem like it would make more sense to make it do a lot of damage but has to be direct hits only, no/very small splash.
Sat May 05, 2012 6:37 am

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing the stickies suck any time you stick some one they just fly up your ass and blow you up with them. at least the jackal lets you detonate whenever you want so its the safer option. i feel without the jackal the infiltrator is completely gimped but i can see how using the stealth spinfusor in 7 vs 7 or 8 on 8 comp games actually works because of the smaller player counts but in a pub game its almost mandatory to run the jackal. you literally have no chance otherwise. their is just too many players and usually way more technicians then you can possibly hope to deal with the stealth spinfusor or rhino in full 16 vs 16 matches
Sat May 05, 2012 10:36 am

Apocc Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am Posts: 152	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing I dont play with either, but i do play Raider O in comp, so i regularly face the best players in europe. As a raider, i dont really have issues with anyone, there are some insane duelers, but raider is really the assault class that wins duels vrs everything else. However when running around in pubs, i do find the most troublesome weapons to face are the jackal and plasma, i dont die to them on a regular basis but whenever i face one, i cant help but feel i take alot of "cheap damage" damage i wouldnt take if they were playing with any other weapon. If i play inf, i play spinfusor, pistol (arena vid of it in action). And i feel i only get kills if i aim and move well. Jackal seems like it doesnt require this sort of co-ordination, just a point and detonate with low risk aproach, that feels like an arx buster with a win button on the side. Maybe its just me, but i dont see them being allowed in comp in their current state ever.
Sat May 05, 2012 2:45 pm

PROJIE Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am Posts: 294	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing itt: bad players talk about balance and obviously don't understand why any of these weapons are op _________________ Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic team icon - #1 classic team exiled arena - #1 arena voted best player all time - t2 competitive community current best t:a player watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg
Sat May 05, 2012 2:52 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing PROJIE wrote: itt: bad players talk about balance and obviously don't understand why any of these weapons are op itt: bad players that cant adapt to new gameplay elements and cry about things being op because they get killed by said new weapons. works both ways guy.
Sat May 05, 2012 3:30 pm

PROJIE Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am Posts: 294	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: PROJIE wrote: itt: bad players talk about balance and obviously don't understand why any of these weapons are op itt: bad players that cant adapt to new gameplay elements and cry about things being op because they get killed by said new weapons. works both ways guy. no it doesn't. i have gameplay footage of me dominating with all those overpowered weapons. hint: the best players adapt the fastest, these weapons are still lame and homogenize gameplay _________________ Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic team icon - #1 classic team exiled arena - #1 arena voted best player all time - t2 competitive community current best t:a player watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg
Sat May 05, 2012 3:44 pm

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Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

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DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

vuorkr-d wrote:

SSF dps is inline with light armorclass. This is also in the ballpark where INF should be doing hes dmg.

Only reason we're seeing SSF -at all- is because Jackal is currently banned in comp play, so people will practice using it.

I dunno, man. A Stealth Heavy Spinfusor would shut me up pretty fast.

Fri May 04, 2012 10:21 pm

CrissHill

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:40 pm
Posts: 148

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DrEuthanasia wrote:

vuorkr-d wrote:

I dunno, man. A Stealth Heavy Spinfusor would shut me up pretty fast.

Stealth Chaingun as secondary then?

Fri May 04, 2012 10:23 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

the whole argument of a light class shouldn't be able to kill medium classes is silly. the infiltrator is literally the only light class that actually has to put himself into danger to do his job. pathfinders fly around in circles around the map capping and chasing the entire game and sentinels stay as far away from any action what so ever picking off people with low health or popping the capper before he gets home. since the infiltrator is the only light class that puts himself in direct combat with the other classes he has more hp then the other 2 light classes and he also needs a weapon to compete with mediums and heavies toe to toe otherwise he just gets killed by them so easily.

Fri May 04, 2012 11:45 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4870
Location: NA East

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

pathfinders fly around in circles around the map capping and chasing the entire game and sentinels stay as far away from any action what so ever picking off people with low health or popping the capper before he gets home.

The BL is too strong too.

This is the problem with this discussion, people assume that when I say the Jackal is OP, I just want INF nerfs.

The BL needs to be toned down.
The SEN needs to not have an auto.
The NJ4 and TCN4 need to be toned down.
Motion sensors need to not notify when destroyed.
Plasma needs a serious nerf.
The X1 needs a slight nerf.
Drop Jammers need a nerf.
Frag credits need a nerf.

This game is straight f***, and all these individual class weapons discussion only chip away at the iceberg. It's simply too easy to frag in this game, unless your a PTH running flags, and it's too easy to outrun everything. This game has so many balance issues these item specific threads are a waste of time. The only threads worth +1ing anymore are the comprehensive threads and the physics fix threads.

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

Trilandian by reading your signature on the forum i can deduce you play TCN and are obviously the most butthurt over the jackal. You are completely biased against it because it is the direct counter to your class.

Please. Never mind the fact that I can house RDRs in the mid field with it. There isn't a class I fear 1v1 with the Jackal. There's something wrong with that.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Sat May 05, 2012 5:44 am

AxeltheDarkHero

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:47 am
Posts: 12

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

I'm fine with Lights being able to kill Mediums and Heavies, but what's wrong is that it's an almost instantaneous death with no chance to react with no real effort by the Infiltrator like a Backstab would take. If I don't know an Infiltrator is around, with the Rhino and the Stealth Spinfusor, I would be at a disadvantage because of the extra hit(s), but if I'm a Light/Medium class and he has a Jackal, I'm dead before I even had a chance to process the sound the Jackal makes.

Edit: That is if he's even using his weapon to catch me off guard, I haven't played Infiltrator too much, but I assume Stickies would be a more suitable ambushing technique, but why do that when you can get better results with the Jackal and save your Stickies.

On the other topic of discussion, the Plasma gun (which I've been using a lot), it's pretty broken but I was able to do my routine of Generator raiding and killing almost as well with Juggernaut. I'm kind of surprised the Plasma gun isn't a "Direct Hit" of T:A, the description flaunts that it's good for midairs, but it's good for everything else too since it has moderate splash, it seem like it would make more sense to make it do a lot of damage but has to be direct hits only, no/very small splash.

Sat May 05, 2012 6:37 am

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

the stickies suck any time you stick some one they just fly up your ass and blow you up with them. at least the jackal lets you detonate whenever you want so its the safer option.

i feel without the jackal the infiltrator is completely gimped but i can see how using the stealth spinfusor in 7 vs 7 or 8 on 8 comp games actually works because of the smaller player counts but in a pub game its almost mandatory to run the jackal.

you literally have no chance otherwise. their is just too many players and usually way more technicians then you can possibly hope to deal with the stealth spinfusor or rhino in full 16 vs 16 matches

Sat May 05, 2012 10:36 am

Apocc

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am
Posts: 152

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

I dont play with either, but i do play Raider O in comp, so i regularly face the best players in europe. As a raider, i dont really have issues with anyone, there are some insane duelers, but raider is really the assault class that wins duels vrs everything else. However when running around in pubs, i do find the most troublesome weapons to face are the jackal and plasma, i dont die to them on a regular basis but whenever i face one, i cant help but feel i take alot of "cheap damage" damage i wouldnt take if they were playing with any other weapon.

If i play inf, i play spinfusor, pistol (arena vid of it in action). And i feel i only get kills if i aim and move well. Jackal seems like it doesnt require this sort of co-ordination, just a point and detonate with low risk aproach, that feels like an arx buster with a win button on the side.

Maybe its just me, but i dont see them being allowed in comp in their current state ever.

Sat May 05, 2012 2:45 pm

PROJIE

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am
Posts: 294

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

itt: bad players talk about balance and obviously don't understand why any of these weapons are op

_________________
Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man
team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic
team icon - #1 classic
team exiled arena - #1 arena

voted best player all time - t2 competitive community
current best t:a player
watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg

Sat May 05, 2012 2:52 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

PROJIE wrote:

itt: bad players talk about balance and obviously don't understand why any of these weapons are op

itt: bad players that cant adapt to new gameplay elements and cry about things being op because they get killed by said new weapons.

works both ways guy.

Sat May 05, 2012 3:30 pm

PROJIE

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am
Posts: 294

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

PROJIE wrote:

itt: bad players talk about balance and obviously don't understand why any of these weapons are op

itt: bad players that cant adapt to new gameplay elements and cry about things being op because they get killed by said new weapons.

works both ways guy.

no it doesn't. i have gameplay footage of me dominating with all those overpowered weapons.

hint: the best players adapt the fastest, these weapons are still lame and homogenize gameplay

Sat May 05, 2012 3:44 pm

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Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing