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Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?
Author	Message
RandallPotter Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:33 am Posts: 335 Location: Atlanta, GA	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Hanging out by the flag is fine for me. Not worried about how many times I die - just worried about getting the flag back. _________________ When I'm not beta testing I'm playing TribesNext on the GoonHaven servers. Cyborg27X-A CEO, GraceFruit Media, LLC. Atlanta, GA Interactive. Marketing. Strategy. http://www.RandallPotter.com
Wed May 02, 2012 1:39 pm

irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? RandallPotter wrote: Ibin... can catch me and others just fine. Here's a loadout: Pathfinder. Rage Perk. Ultra Capacitor. Thrust pack. Nitron. A method to catch sanic: Stand near flag when it's grabbed, while red electricity is flowing on you ( Raged ) - thrust pack once, into a nitron jump, instant 200+ speeds. You'll also have enough health for a disc jump, but that will leave you with low health. This method can catch most people on the public servers. Yes yes, this is what all good chasers do (albeit without Rage since Rage kind of sucks and Reach is more important for flag returning). But this still doesn't solve the problem of 300+ cappers and 200/250+ back-to-front routes. There is still a huge disproportion between the effort/precision required to pull off one of those caps and the effort/precision required of a chaser to stop it.
Wed May 02, 2012 1:41 pm

RandallPotter Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:33 am Posts: 335 Location: Atlanta, GA	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Makes me think of alternative forms of play: + Chaser perpetually skies in a pattern that takes them near the flag stand often, but ensures good speed when needed to chase. + Midfield flag chaser positions. + Infiltrators as flag returners near enemy flag stand. + When more vehicles are introduced, bombing runs will have an impact on stand play and midfield shenanigans. + Strategic inventory station placement to act as a bump to slow routes down. _________________ When I'm not beta testing I'm playing TribesNext on the GoonHaven servers. Cyborg27X-A CEO, GraceFruit Media, LLC. Atlanta, GA Interactive. Marketing. Strategy. http://www.RandallPotter.com
Wed May 02, 2012 2:34 pm

Pittyswains Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:36 am Posts: 2120	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Nuggetman wrote: Weight the flag.That sounds like the most practical solution I have heard here so far. How come we never thought of that before. Slows down cappers after the flag grab and enhances chasers when the flag has been grabbed. Also would slow down that annoying boost you can accidently give a capper by shooting them with a disk if you are out of nades for whatever reason. I have helped many a capper get home by disk jumping them. Makes me sad. It has been thought of before. It's a bandaid fix for a core problem. _________________ shayd wrote: Ok But why do all combats I see take place like this: Two or more guys slide on the ground at huge speed which in real life would make your shoe evaporate to other dimension and meantime spamming those bombs or new players trying to be fair shooting a machine gun
Wed May 02, 2012 2:47 pm

Punichan Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am Posts: 461	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? RandallPotter wrote: Makes me think of alternative forms of play: + Chaser perpetually skies in a pattern that takes them near the flag stand often, but ensures good speed when needed to chase. + Midfield flag chaser positions. + Infiltrators as flag returners near enemy flag stand. + When more vehicles are introduced, bombing runs will have an impact on stand play and midfield shenanigans. + Strategic inventory station placement to act as a bump to slow routes down. -How to deal with flying cappers? that goes over the hill in less than 4 seconds? you can't saber, and you can't chase because he/she is going at 250+ MPH! try chase the hedgehog! it's HARD! they have head start! -Try guessing which mid field positions you need to guard to wait for the next capper? - Inf is weak and usually too easy to get busted... when the guy is coming home at 300+MPH, I don't think intercepting is an option... at that point, I usually go for E... - "WHEN MORE VEHICLES"... it's useless... you are NOT going to catch up, and besides.. they will strike you down before they make that run... - I don't have the credits for that... it's hard enough to keep base defended with all the credits earned...
Thu May 03, 2012 9:58 pm

DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Punichan wrote: - Inf is weak and usually too easy to get busted... when the guy is coming home at 300+MPH, I don't think intercepting is an option... at that point, I usually go for E... Well, of course you go for an E-Grab. You go for an E-Grab and leave a 1200 damage Sticky Grenade sitting on the empty stand. The thing about cappers traveling at 250 km/h is that they can't easily change directions. If your timing is good enough, there's literally nothing they can do short of throwing the flag away and dying anyways, which is still what you want. You also don't hold onto the enemy flag or try to run home with it, you just toss it somewhere convenient for an allied capper and go running after your own while invisible.
Thu May 03, 2012 10:29 pm

Kinohki Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:53 am Posts: 35	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? I Pub a lot and play Sent, Doombringer (HoF), tech and Inf. I don't really play path or any of the others. One thing I notice is with super heavy perk fully upgraded, a spinfuser disc can still knock me off the flag and Reach is just absurd. It allows a pathfinder to literally skim over my head and still get the flag. You can back up and jet up and body block, but that's easier said than done, especially with the constant bombardment on your flag stand. While the core physics are a major problem, I also partly believe that it's level design as well. Look at maps like Katabatic and Dry Dock. The flag stands are out in the open and playing HoF is just straight suicide there, especially late game when it's nothing but tac strike fests. The small maps make it so that a capper going 250+ can literally get from your base to their base in 30 seconds or less, so there really isn't any -time- to chase. By the time you see the notice, "X has our flag!" they're half way across the map and there is absolutely no stopping them unless you have a d*** good sentinel. Then again with the zoom on the scope, you have about 2-3 seconds before their out of your range and just a small spec. Another thing that irks me is that one pub star capper can literally 5 minute match themselves. A good "pub star capper" can have your flag capped within the first 45 seconds to 1 minute of the start of the game before any of your defenses are set up at all. If they get any kills, then a tac strike is inevitable. That and the fact that they can just sit on a hill out of your view range (Raindance is notorious for this) disc your defenses down or just tac strike you and swoop in. The tacs give a light the firepower of the heavy and that simply shouldn't be done. You can -stop- heavy bombardment. A tac strike is nigh impossible to stop unless you happen to be near them or your sent picks them off before it finishes. That isn't good gameplay. They should have friendly fire, and why they don't is beyond me. If you ski through your own tac strike, you should get blown to oblivion and back. The problem with fast capping and the oriented offense in this game is a multitude of problems. Bad level design combined with poor physics as well as tacs. It really isn't just one problem.
Thu May 03, 2012 10:30 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? +1 to "Flag Tax" _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Fri May 04, 2012 1:27 pm

eureus Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:16 pm Posts: 599	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Slowing down the cappers is a terrible idea. Boost the chasers trust packs instead (through a perk like Rage).
Fri May 04, 2012 2:16 pm

irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Kinohki wrote: I Pub a lot and play Sent, Doombringer (HoF), tech and Inf. I don't really play path or any of the others. One thing I notice is with super heavy perk fully upgraded, a spinfuser disc can still knock me off the flag and Reach is just absurd. It allows a pathfinder to literally skim over my head and still get the flag. Little known fact: grabbing with your feet isn't actually a product of reach. It works even without reach - someone who grabs over your head is just good at grabbing, because the precision needed to do that without stuffing it up and running directly into you or missing the flag completely is fairly high. All you need to do as HoF to prevent leg grabs is right click. Reach allows people to get flags from the side. There is/was a huge thread in the comp forums about how Reach has to go (and Super Heavy needs to be changed).
Fri May 04, 2012 3:00 pm

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Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

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RandallPotter

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:33 am
Posts: 335
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Hanging out by the flag is fine for me. Not worried about how many times I die - just worried about getting the flag back.

_________________
When I'm not beta testing I'm playing TribesNext on the GoonHaven servers.
Cyborg27X-A
CEO, GraceFruit Media, LLC. Atlanta, GA
Interactive. Marketing. Strategy.
http://www.RandallPotter.com

Wed May 02, 2012 1:39 pm

irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

RandallPotter wrote:

Ibin... can catch me and others just fine.

Here's a loadout:
Pathfinder. Rage Perk. Ultra Capacitor. Thrust pack. Nitron.

A method to catch sanic:
Stand near flag when it's grabbed, while red electricity is flowing on you ( Raged ) - thrust pack once, into a nitron jump, instant 200+ speeds. You'll also have enough health for a disc jump, but that will leave you with low health. This method can catch most people on the public servers.

Yes yes, this is what all good chasers do (albeit without Rage since Rage kind of sucks and Reach is more important for flag returning). But this still doesn't solve the problem of 300+ cappers and 200/250+ back-to-front routes. There is still a huge disproportion between the effort/precision required to pull off one of those caps and the effort/precision required of a chaser to stop it.

Wed May 02, 2012 1:41 pm

RandallPotter

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:33 am
Posts: 335
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Makes me think of alternative forms of play:

+ Chaser perpetually skies in a pattern that takes them near the flag stand often, but ensures good speed when needed to chase.

+ Midfield flag chaser positions.

+ Infiltrators as flag returners near enemy flag stand.

+ When more vehicles are introduced, bombing runs will have an impact on stand play and midfield shenanigans.

+ Strategic inventory station placement to act as a bump to slow routes down.

Wed May 02, 2012 2:34 pm

Pittyswains

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:36 am
Posts: 2120

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Nuggetman wrote:

Weight the flag.That sounds like the most practical solution I have heard here so far. How come we never thought of that before. Slows down cappers after the flag grab and enhances chasers when the flag has been grabbed. Also would slow down that annoying boost you can accidently give a capper by shooting them with a disk if you are out of nades for whatever reason. I have helped many a capper get home by disk jumping them. Makes me sad.

It has been thought of before. It's a bandaid fix for a core problem.

_________________

shayd wrote:

Ok But why do all combats I see take place like this: Two or more guys slide on the ground at huge speed which in real life would make your shoe evaporate to other dimension and meantime spamming those bombs or new players trying to be fair shooting a machine gun

Wed May 02, 2012 2:47 pm

Punichan

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am
Posts: 461

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

RandallPotter wrote:

-How to deal with flying cappers? that goes over the hill in less than 4 seconds? you can't saber, and you can't chase because he/she is going at 250+ MPH! try chase the hedgehog! it's HARD! they have head start!

-Try guessing which mid field positions you need to guard to wait for the next capper?

- Inf is weak and usually too easy to get busted... when the guy is coming home at 300+MPH, I don't think intercepting is an option... at that point, I usually go for E...

- "WHEN MORE VEHICLES"... it's useless... you are NOT going to catch up, and besides.. they will strike you down before they make that run...

- I don't have the credits for that... it's hard enough to keep base defended with all the credits earned...

Thu May 03, 2012 9:58 pm

DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Punichan wrote:

- Inf is weak and usually too easy to get busted... when the guy is coming home at 300+MPH, I don't think intercepting is an option... at that point, I usually go for E...

Well, of course you go for an E-Grab. You go for an E-Grab and leave a 1200 damage Sticky Grenade sitting on the empty stand. The thing about cappers traveling at 250 km/h is that they can't easily change directions. If your timing is good enough, there's literally nothing they can do short of throwing the flag away and dying anyways, which is still what you want. You also don't hold onto the enemy flag or try to run home with it, you just toss it somewhere convenient for an allied capper and go running after your own while invisible.

Thu May 03, 2012 10:29 pm

Kinohki

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:53 am
Posts: 35

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

I Pub a lot and play Sent, Doombringer (HoF), tech and Inf. I don't really play path or any of the others. One thing I notice is with super heavy perk fully upgraded, a spinfuser disc can still knock me off the flag and Reach is just absurd. It allows a pathfinder to literally skim over my head and still get the flag.

You can back up and jet up and body block, but that's easier said than done, especially with the constant bombardment on your flag stand.

While the core physics are a major problem, I also partly believe that it's level design as well. Look at maps like Katabatic and Dry Dock. The flag stands are out in the open and playing HoF is just straight suicide there, especially late game when it's nothing but tac strike fests. The small maps make it so that a capper going 250+ can literally get from your base to their base in 30 seconds or less, so there really isn't any -time- to chase. By the time you see the notice, "X has our flag!" they're half way across the map and there is absolutely no stopping them unless you have a d*** good sentinel. Then again with the zoom on the scope, you have about 2-3 seconds before their out of your range and just a small spec.

Another thing that irks me is that one pub star capper can literally 5 minute match themselves. A good "pub star capper" can have your flag capped within the first 45 seconds to 1 minute of the start of the game before any of your defenses are set up at all. If they get any kills, then a tac strike is inevitable. That and the fact that they can just sit on a hill out of your view range (Raindance is notorious for this) disc your defenses down or just tac strike you and swoop in. The tacs give a light the firepower of the heavy and that simply shouldn't be done. You can -stop- heavy bombardment. A tac strike is nigh impossible to stop unless you happen to be near them or your sent picks them off before it finishes. That isn't good gameplay. They should have friendly fire, and why they don't is beyond me. If you ski through your own tac strike, you should get blown to oblivion and back.

The problem with fast capping and the oriented offense in this game is a multitude of problems. Bad level design combined with poor physics as well as tacs. It really isn't just one problem.

Thu May 03, 2012 10:30 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

+1 to "Flag Tax"

_________________
Thump... BOOM
---
My Contributions
Intelligent Turret Placement
Management tools
---
Important Topics
Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF
Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT
Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT
Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC

Fri May 04, 2012 1:27 pm

eureus

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:16 pm
Posts: 599

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Slowing down the cappers is a terrible idea. Boost the chasers trust packs instead (through a perk like Rage).

Fri May 04, 2012 2:16 pm

irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Kinohki wrote:

Little known fact: grabbing with your feet isn't actually a product of reach. It works even without reach - someone who grabs over your head is just good at grabbing, because the precision needed to do that without stuffing it up and running directly into you or missing the flag completely is fairly high. All you need to do as HoF to prevent leg grabs is right click.

Reach allows people to get flags from the side. There is/was a huge thread in the comp forums about how Reach has to go (and Super Heavy needs to be changed).

Fri May 04, 2012 3:00 pm

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Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?