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Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!
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ClutchSoldier Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:15 pm Posts: 13	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! The "better" teams in Tribes 1 and 2 almost always had a dedicated LO that was either a backup capper (When needed), O Sniper, and/or flag escort or intercept or combination there of. This position was usually one of the most highly skilled players, duelers, and skiiers on each team. I played against the top 20 teams in both games plenty of times. If anything else the LO were harassing the HO going to their bases, or even helping the HO on your own team when needed. I usually played this on most of my teams. Now it seems all LOs do is sit and spam strikes. No skill, plenty of kills/points. They should really do more for the air dynamic in this game. Shrikes were never meant to be a ground pounding weapon and now its like they're trying to turn them into fighter bombers. The ONLY air aspect in this game... Come on guys... What I really think the devs should have done to do their due diligence on homework for balancing the offense and defense would be to look back at some of the top tribes recordings in both tribes 1 and 2 of some of the top clan matches (They're still out there) or even the Tribes World Championchip matches. That would give them a really good idea of how the offenses and defenses really work and flow in this game. (Not to mention the whole generator/base rape concept because right now a generator down really doesn't do much to hinder a team when you can spawn with a full load out and the armor of your choosing, rocket arena style). Tribes is basically what invented "All your base are belong to us". That fluid teamwork is what kept Tribes competition going for years after each title was released. Tribes: Vengeance was completely and utterly stupid and distasteful and died before it was even released, so please do not look at that one, unless you want to see how to make a game fail.
Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:07 am

Zeeber Beta Tester Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:06 am Posts: 14	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! I'm bumping this topic as I agree that the bomber needs to make a reappearance and that the strikes need to go. They are absolutely game breaking in that there is no way to defend against them (you can use them from the other side of the map) and most of the flag stands are in the open and very difficult to protect from bombardment. But I will leave map layout for another discussion. I believe that the bomber from Tribes 2 should be introduced into tribes ascend and replace the orbital and tactical strikes. And before everyone goes crazy over saying "but it is the same thing!" or "how is it also not OP" let me tell you in the following paragraphs. Let me say first off, the bomber would have to require a pilot and passenger to be effective. This way you cannot have 1 single person (well, you could with a skilled pilot but I'll get to that later) doing catastrophic damage to a base like you can with the orbital strike. You have one person flying this large bomber around, and the other person choosing when to drop the bombs. Both people should work in tandem to make an effective run. If anyone here has played Tribes 2, you will see that the bomber pilot actually does most the work, the passenger chooses when to pull the trigger. So if the pilot sets up a perfect run, but the passenger doesn't fire at the right time, the bombing run will generally fail or not be (as) effective. With the introduction of a bomber, we would obviously want to have a balance to this seemingly OP machine. To do this we can do a few things. First off, you cannot bomb spam. Very similar to how the shrike currently works, there would be a delay from when the bombs are dropped to when they can be dropped again. I think that ballpark guessing this time should be roughly 1.5x - 2x the recharge rate of the shrikes weapon, pretty much making the bomber having to do a "full circuit" around the map before they can bomb again. This would prevent just hovering over the enemy base and dropping bombs all day. Second, I would like to see the missile turrets and addons make a return. What I mean is you can change a turret from shooting balls of energy to firing missiles that lock on targets. This would be effective Anti-Air and anytime a bomber wants to come by, it will likely get shot by a missile unless you have a skilled pilot and/or flares(will also get to these). They would fire slower than the current turrets, and have a lock-on time. Also because you can change out the type of turrets, if you find that bombers aren't doing many runs, or if you have some DMB(i think) out there with their missile launchers, you can change the turret back to its default mode. I think TCN should have a way to change the turrets, but that's just my thoughts on that. Third, and this is an issue with current flag stands, almost all of the flags stands are way out in the open. With absolutely no way to protect them from fire from above, I think that a rework is needed. If you look at some of the maps from Tribes 2, a lot of the flags are under some sort of cover, or protected on multiple sides by buildings or terrain. Some even had a powered shield above them that went down with the generator, much like one of the maps we have now, but more effective against bombers than other assaults. I'm not a map maker, so I cannot go into much more detail than my previous experiences, but I think the maps need a little help, especially if something like this is implemented. Lastly, Shrikes will become the true air superiority fighter that they were meant to be, and allow dog fights as well as anti-bomber base protection to be utilized. It will give Shrikes a real role in the game, and allow skilled pilots to show off their skills by either attacking enemy bombers and shrikes, or defending your own. It will combine all aspects of the battlefield together, with both your ground forces and your air in a seamless and complete battlefield. These are only a few things off the top of my head that would counter the bomber, but I'm sure the community and Hi-Rez can come up with creative solutions. Now, something that probably deserves another topic but i will discuss it here, is the flare. The Flare was a grenade slot item that, as you can imagine, its whole use was to dodge missiles. It could be thrown from inside the vehicle, so a pilot or passenger could equip and use while flying. This item should be added to help out pilots save their ships. "But that's OP!" you say? Not really. With missile turrets and Missile launchers in the field, the pilots only have so many flares before they are out, whereas the Doombringers who have the rocket launchers have an easier time getting to an inventory station to re-equip, and don't have a large aircraft to park somewhere. I also think that if the bomber was brought back, we should also see the "painting laser" return. This would work similarly to how orbital strikes are brought in, but instead of directly controlling the death from above, you "paint" a target to assist both mortars and the bomber to utilize and bring in the pain. This would show up on the huds of users in the bombers and of those using the mortar, and allow more accurate targeting. Because the painting laser would be visible to all players in the field, the enemy team could see what is being targeted, as well as from where, and take action against the painter. This would bring balance to both sides. While these are only a few of my ideas, I think with proper implementation and tweaks to balance, we can create an improved battlefield with more options and tactics than the current game. Larger maps would need to be created to allow more room to "breathe" and if the Havok ever makes a return (it was in the trailer, why haven't we seen it) we can start to see more team work and tactics in what could be the best FPS of the year. TL;DR - Replace Tac/Orbital Strikes with the bomber. Require 2 players to effectively use. Balance with missile turrets and cooldown on drops. Bring back flares and targeting laser. Utilize better flag stand design.
Thu May 03, 2012 5:28 am

caaok Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm Posts: 1110	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! You do realize that air vehicles have no counter, right? Shrikes now suck as anti-air dog fighters in comparison to T2. Sabers are worthless and would be pitifully easy to destroy or avoid. So essentially, you're asking for a skillless, one shot AOE kill to be replaced by the same thing, except constantly spammable. Awful, awful idea. Requiring two players to work =\= skill. _________________ What we lose with hitscan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY
Thu May 03, 2012 8:15 am

Zeeber Beta Tester Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:06 am Posts: 14	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! caaok wrote: You do realize that air vehicles have no counter, right? Shrikes now suck as anti-air dog fighters in comparison to T2. Sabers are worthless and would be pitifully easy to destroy or avoid. So essentially, you're asking for a skillless, one shot AOE kill to be replaced by the same thing, except constantly spammable. Awful, awful idea. Requiring two players to work =\= skill. Hence why certain things would need to be reworked and added. Shrikes main cannon might need to be slightly changed to do less damage but fire more rapidly. Saber Launchers might need to be re-worked to be less avoidable. Missile turrets would also work. There are things that would possibly need change to become effective. But I can guarantee that it would be infinitely more balanced than the current strikes. Which have absolutely NO counter right now.
Thu May 03, 2012 6:56 pm

caaok Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm Posts: 1110	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! They would not. Bombers were barely even balanced in T2, but due to the small sizes of competitive matches it was only an issue in pubs. You're requesting that they remove a one-hit kill weapon from a mile away, which has a massive AOE, and can singlehandedly take down flagstand defense, at a cost of 4000/10000 credits. Now simultaneously, you're asking them to add a vehicle for say, 10000 credits, that does the exact same thing. The difference being, instead of a one time shot, it can do it over and over again until destroyed, and in the current game it probably never would be. The net effect is strike after strike after strike on the stand, still requiring no skill (pointing a bomb reticule at a stationary target is not a skill), making the problem infinitely worse. I'd be up for a carbon copy remake of T2 provided it was ported in its entirety, but sometimes I think other vets have these ridiculous blinders on when making suggestions about directly porting ideas. Bombers in this game with tiny maps and no anti-air counters would be so much worse than strikes. _________________ What we lose with hitscan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY
Thu May 03, 2012 9:22 pm

Coloradoguy234 Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:26 pm Posts: 178 Location: Colorado	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! caaok wrote: They would not. Bombers were barely even balanced in T2, but due to the small sizes of competitive matches it was only an issue in pubs. You're requesting that they remove a one-hit kill weapon from a mile away, which has a massive AOE, and can singlehandedly take down flagstand defense, at a cost of 4000/10000 credits. Now simultaneously, you're asking them to add a vehicle for say, 10000 credits, that does the exact same thing. The difference being, instead of a one time shot, it can do it over and over again until destroyed, and in the current game it probably never would be. The net effect is strike after strike after strike on the stand, still requiring no skill (pointing a bomb reticule at a stationary target is not a skill), making the problem infinitely worse. I'd be up for a carbon copy remake of T2 provided it was ported in its entirety, but sometimes I think other vets have these ridiculous blinders on when making suggestions about directly porting ideas. Bombers in this game with tiny maps and no anti-air counters would be so much worse than strikes. Someone already replied to your issue. There ARE anti-air measures in T:A, they just need tweaked. Also the bomber in T2 was far from unbalanced. Usually people didn't even get kills since the moment you showed up 3 missiles and a turret wanted to greet you. Tweak the Shrike and Sabre. Add new turrets. Problem solved.
Thu May 03, 2012 9:36 pm

Styel Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:20 pm Posts: 626	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! +10000 Love this so much.. you have no idea. Only problem.... small maps _________________ Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? thesliver wrote: I say "Son, stop being so newb" Physics Poll
Thu May 03, 2012 9:37 pm

Punichan Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am Posts: 452	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! If only Strikes are TRULY designed to do a flag stand face wipe... I would have said yea to the strikes... but we all know that's NOT true... it's for your Flag Runner to do a "Flawless Speed Cap", by flawless... I do NOT mean the performance... I just mean there is NO obstacles because WHILE THE BOMB IS GOING OFF, you are entering the dead zone, and because this game have something against FF, EVEN WHEN IT'S THE FREAKING BFG TEAM KILLER... It's a cheap tactic... and all the cappers are angry about people wanting to weight the flag? Strike is a no skill, cheap BOmbShield, annoying, game breaking option that made CTF a "who ever gets the capper and first strike wins", I say weight the flag, I say trade the strikes with actual bombers, and let more classes have ANTI-Vehicle weapons ($$Yo, HiRez$$), and let this war get colorful!~
Thu May 03, 2012 9:47 pm

caaok Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm Posts: 1110	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! Coloradoguy234 wrote: Someone already replied to your issue. There ARE anti-air measures in T:A, they just need tweaked. Also the bomber in T2 was far from unbalanced. Usually people didn't even get kills since the moment you showed up 3 missiles and a turret wanted to greet you. Tweak the Shrike and Sabre. Add new turrets. Problem solved. Slight tweaks are far more underwhelming than the changes that would be necessary to balance this. I find it incredibly ironic that in one breath someone's crying about how strikes are skillless crap that negate defense (they are), and then they advocate adding a weapon that accomplishes the exact same thing in a more roundabout fashion. All that's actually needed is removal of strikes. _________________ What we lose with hitscan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY
Thu May 03, 2012 9:48 pm

SFJake Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:11 pm Posts: 381	Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber! caaok wrote: Coloradoguy234 wrote: Someone already replied to your issue. There ARE anti-air measures in T:A, they just need tweaked. Also the bomber in T2 was far from unbalanced. Usually people didn't even get kills since the moment you showed up 3 missiles and a turret wanted to greet you. Tweak the Shrike and Sabre. Add new turrets. Problem solved. Slight tweaks are far more underwhelming than the changes that would be necessary to balance this. I find it incredibly ironic that in one breath someone's crying about how strikes are skillless crap that negate defense (they are), and then they advocate adding a weapon that accomplishes the exact same thing in a more roundabout fashion. I find no irony in that when the idea is to add something more skillful and that actually demands true player interactions and risks. _________________ http://sfjake.zxq.net
Thu May 03, 2012 9:56 pm

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Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

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ClutchSoldier

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:15 pm
Posts: 13

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

The "better" teams in Tribes 1 and 2 almost always had a dedicated LO that was either a backup capper (When needed), O Sniper, and/or flag escort or intercept or combination there of. This position was usually one of the most highly skilled players, duelers, and skiiers on each team. I played against the top 20 teams in both games plenty of times. If anything else the LO were harassing the HO going to their bases, or even helping the HO on your own team when needed. I usually played this on most of my teams. Now it seems all LOs do is sit and spam strikes. No skill, plenty of kills/points.

They should really do more for the air dynamic in this game. Shrikes were never meant to be a ground pounding weapon and now its like they're trying to turn them into fighter bombers. The ONLY air aspect in this game... Come on guys...

What I really think the devs should have done to do their due diligence on homework for balancing the offense and defense would be to look back at some of the top tribes recordings in both tribes 1 and 2 of some of the top clan matches (They're still out there) or even the Tribes World Championchip matches. That would give them a really good idea of how the offenses and defenses really work and flow in this game. (Not to mention the whole generator/base rape concept because right now a generator down really doesn't do much to hinder a team when you can spawn with a full load out and the armor of your choosing, rocket arena style). Tribes is basically what invented "All your base are belong to us". That fluid teamwork is what kept Tribes competition going for years after each title was released.

Tribes: Vengeance was completely and utterly stupid and distasteful and died before it was even released, so please do not look at that one, unless you want to see how to make a game fail.

Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:07 am

Zeeber

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:06 am
Posts: 14

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

I'm bumping this topic as I agree that the bomber needs to make a reappearance and that the strikes need to go. They are absolutely game breaking in that there is no way to defend against them (you can use them from the other side of the map) and most of the flag stands are in the open and very difficult to protect from bombardment. But I will leave map layout for another discussion.

I believe that the bomber from Tribes 2 should be introduced into tribes ascend and replace the orbital and tactical strikes. And before everyone goes crazy over saying "but it is the same thing!" or "how is it also not OP" let me tell you in the following paragraphs.

Let me say first off, the bomber would have to require a pilot and passenger to be effective. This way you cannot have 1 single person (well, you could with a skilled pilot but I'll get to that later) doing catastrophic damage to a base like you can with the orbital strike. You have one person flying this large bomber around, and the other person choosing when to drop the bombs. Both people should work in tandem to make an effective run. If anyone here has played Tribes 2, you will see that the bomber pilot actually does most the work, the passenger chooses when to pull the trigger. So if the pilot sets up a perfect run, but the passenger doesn't fire at the right time, the bombing run will generally fail or not be (as) effective.

First off, you cannot bomb spam. Very similar to how the shrike currently works, there would be a delay from when the bombs are dropped to when they can be dropped again. I think that ballpark guessing this time should be roughly 1.5x - 2x the recharge rate of the shrikes weapon, pretty much making the bomber having to do a "full circuit" around the map before they can bomb again. This would prevent just hovering over the enemy base and dropping bombs all day.
Second, I would like to see the missile turrets and addons make a return. What I mean is you can change a turret from shooting balls of energy to firing missiles that lock on targets. This would be effective Anti-Air and anytime a bomber wants to come by, it will likely get shot by a missile unless you have a skilled pilot and/or flares(will also get to these). They would fire slower than the current turrets, and have a lock-on time. Also because you can change out the type of turrets, if you find that bombers aren't doing many runs, or if you have some DMB(i think) out there with their missile launchers, you can change the turret back to its default mode. I think TCN should have a way to change the turrets, but that's just my thoughts on that.
Third, and this is an issue with current flag stands, almost all of the flags stands are way out in the open. With absolutely no way to protect them from fire from above, I think that a rework is needed. If you look at some of the maps from Tribes 2, a lot of the flags are under some sort of cover, or protected on multiple sides by buildings or terrain. Some even had a powered shield above them that went down with the generator, much like one of the maps we have now, but more effective against bombers than other assaults. I'm not a map maker, so I cannot go into much more detail than my previous experiences, but I think the maps need a little help, especially if something like this is implemented.
Lastly, Shrikes will become the true air superiority fighter that they were meant to be, and allow dog fights as well as anti-bomber base protection to be utilized. It will give Shrikes a real role in the game, and allow skilled pilots to show off their skills by either attacking enemy bombers and shrikes, or defending your own. It will combine all aspects of the battlefield together, with both your ground forces and your air in a seamless and complete battlefield.

These are only a few things off the top of my head that would counter the bomber, but I'm sure the community and Hi-Rez can come up with creative solutions.

Now, something that probably deserves another topic but i will discuss it here, is the flare. The Flare was a grenade slot item that, as you can imagine, its whole use was to dodge missiles. It could be thrown from inside the vehicle, so a pilot or passenger could equip and use while flying. This item should be added to help out pilots save their ships. "But that's OP!" you say? Not really. With missile turrets and Missile launchers in the field, the pilots only have so many flares before they are out, whereas the Doombringers who have the rocket launchers have an easier time getting to an inventory station to re-equip, and don't have a large aircraft to park somewhere.

I also think that if the bomber was brought back, we should also see the "painting laser" return. This would work similarly to how orbital strikes are brought in, but instead of directly controlling the death from above, you "paint" a target to assist both mortars and the bomber to utilize and bring in the pain. This would show up on the huds of users in the bombers and of those using the mortar, and allow more accurate targeting. Because the painting laser would be visible to all players in the field, the enemy team could see what is being targeted, as well as from where, and take action against the painter. This would bring balance to both sides.

While these are only a few of my ideas, I think with proper implementation and tweaks to balance, we can create an improved battlefield with more options and tactics than the current game. Larger maps would need to be created to allow more room to "breathe" and if the Havok ever makes a return (it was in the trailer, why haven't we seen it) we can start to see more team work and tactics in what could be the best FPS of the year.

TL;DR - Replace Tac/Orbital Strikes with the bomber. Require 2 players to effectively use. Balance with missile turrets and cooldown on drops. Bring back flares and targeting laser. Utilize better flag stand design.

Thu May 03, 2012 5:28 am

caaok

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 1110

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

You do realize that air vehicles have no counter, right? Shrikes now suck as anti-air dog fighters in comparison to T2. Sabers are worthless and would be pitifully easy to destroy or avoid. So essentially, you're asking for a skillless, one shot AOE kill to be replaced by the same thing, except constantly spammable. Awful, awful idea. Requiring two players to work =\= skill.

_________________
What we lose with hitscan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY

Thu May 03, 2012 8:15 am

Zeeber

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:06 am
Posts: 14

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

caaok wrote:

Hence why certain things would need to be reworked and added. Shrikes main cannon might need to be slightly changed to do less damage but fire more rapidly. Saber Launchers might need to be re-worked to be less avoidable. Missile turrets would also work.

There are things that would possibly need change to become effective. But I can guarantee that it would be infinitely more balanced than the current strikes. Which have absolutely NO counter right now.

Thu May 03, 2012 6:56 pm

caaok

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 1110

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

They would not. Bombers were barely even balanced in T2, but due to the small sizes of competitive matches it was only an issue in pubs. You're requesting that they remove a one-hit kill weapon from a mile away, which has a massive AOE, and can singlehandedly take down flagstand defense, at a cost of 4000/10000 credits. Now simultaneously, you're asking them to add a vehicle for say, 10000 credits, that does the exact same thing. The difference being, instead of a one time shot, it can do it over and over again until destroyed, and in the current game it probably never would be. The net effect is strike after strike after strike on the stand, still requiring no skill (pointing a bomb reticule at a stationary target is not a skill), making the problem infinitely worse.

I'd be up for a carbon copy remake of T2 provided it was ported in its entirety, but sometimes I think other vets have these ridiculous blinders on when making suggestions about directly porting ideas. Bombers in this game with tiny maps and no anti-air counters would be so much worse than strikes.

_________________
What we lose with hitscan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY

Thu May 03, 2012 9:22 pm

Coloradoguy234

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:26 pm
Posts: 178
Location: Colorado

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

caaok wrote:

Someone already replied to your issue. There ARE anti-air measures in T:A, they just need tweaked. Also the bomber in T2 was far from unbalanced. Usually people didn't even get kills since the moment you showed up 3 missiles and a turret wanted to greet you.

Tweak the Shrike and Sabre.
Add new turrets.
Problem solved.

Thu May 03, 2012 9:36 pm

Styel

Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 626

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

+10000
Love this so much.. you have no idea.

Only problem.... small maps :cry:

_________________
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

thesliver wrote:

I say "Son, stop being so newb"

Physics Poll

Thu May 03, 2012 9:37 pm

Punichan

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am
Posts: 452

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

If only Strikes are TRULY designed to do a flag stand face wipe... I would have said yea to the strikes... but we all know that's NOT true... it's for your Flag Runner to do a "Flawless Speed Cap", by flawless... I do NOT mean the performance... I just mean there is NO obstacles because WHILE THE BOMB IS GOING OFF, you are entering the dead zone, and because this game have something against FF, EVEN WHEN IT'S THE FREAKING BFG TEAM KILLER... It's a cheap tactic... and all the cappers are angry about people wanting to weight the flag?

Strike is a no skill, cheap BOmbShield, annoying, game breaking option that made CTF a "who ever gets the capper and first strike wins", I say weight the flag, I say trade the strikes with actual bombers, and let more classes have ANTI-Vehicle weapons ($$Yo, HiRez$$), and let this war get colorful!~

Thu May 03, 2012 9:47 pm

caaok

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 1110

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

Coloradoguy234 wrote:

Slight tweaks are far more underwhelming than the changes that would be necessary to balance this.

I find it incredibly ironic that in one breath someone's crying about how strikes are skillless crap that negate defense (they are), and then they advocate adding a weapon that accomplishes the exact same thing in a more roundabout fashion.

All that's actually needed is removal of strikes.

_________________
What we lose with hitscan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY

Thu May 03, 2012 9:48 pm

SFJake

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:11 pm
Posts: 381

Re: Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!

caaok wrote:

Coloradoguy234 wrote:

I find no irony in that when the idea is to add something more skillful and that actually demands true player interactions and risks.

_________________
http://sfjake.zxq.net

Thu May 03, 2012 9:56 pm

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Do away with air strikes and bring back the Tribes 2 bomber!