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Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing
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-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4849 Location: NA East	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing Wobberjockey wrote: which is far more of an issue with the banded splash damage system they chose to implement as opposed to a linear or trigonometric function Valid, and more evidence to the lack of design talent here. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Thu May 03, 2012 6:42 pm

WitchDoctorVega Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am Posts: 2482 Location: On the coast, NH Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing -AEnubis- wrote: Wobberjockey wrote: which is far more of an issue with the banded splash damage system they chose to implement as opposed to a linear or trigonometric function Valid, and more evidence to the lack of design talent here. not so much a lack of design talent, as a lack of testing. _________________ CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!
Thu May 03, 2012 6:49 pm

DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: because melee in this game is way too glitchy to rely on and also to free up the first perk slot for something better like safety third or looter. pretty much every infiltrator was running close combat and survivalist before the jackal now you see some variations Fix a broken mechanic by introducing a new weapon that does more damage, is safer, and doesn't require a perk to use? And at the same time, leave the broken mechanic in the game? To be perfectly honest with you, this is the exact response I was expecting. Here, let me dig up a Hi-Rez post that outright proves this was not why they created the Jackal: http://forum.hirezstudios.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=801743#p801743 Unless of course you're so desperate that you think they "addressed the issues" by releasing the Jackal, that is. DeadCellSpawn wrote: last time i checked the stealth spinfusor projectiles cant be destroyed as it leaves your gun by SMG fire or explosive weapons blowing up in your face whereas the jackals projectiles can be. also the stealth spinfusor or even the rhino is way more reliable outdoors. sure you can use the jackal outdoors by guessing where the guy is going to land and detonating when they land on them or being good enough to stick them with mid airs. but anyone with any experience with the game will save some energy to jet at the last minute over your jackal rounds and avoid taking any damage what so ever. You argue that the 72 km/h jetpack cap is fine in one breath and then turn to claim that they're powerful enough to break your fall and save you from a bed of Jackal grenades within hours. I think it's time to give up, buddy. While I'm still here, though, no preventative measure will result in you taking less damage from the Jackal than you would from a similarly aimed Stealth Spinfusor. Shooting your own feet without Egocentric is guaranteed to hurt you for more than 500 damage and it requires you to be firing at yourself rather than the Infiltrator. If even one grenade detonates near you, it does the same damage as the SS's splash, and you get three grenades to work with. If you land one mid-air with the Stealth Spinfusor it does 700 damage, but with the Jackal you get 750 - one from the stuck projectile and one from a nearby airburst when it's detonated.
Thu May 03, 2012 6:52 pm

DeadCellSpawn Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am Posts: 407	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing first off i never said the 72 jetpack cap is fine i only pointed out that they may have their reasons for setting it up like that map size perhaps could you imagine how easy it would be to fly from ship to ship in crossfire with stronger jetpacks. also it is completely possible to jet at the last minute to miss the jackal rounds unless you used up all your energy and are falling like a ton of bricks you should be able to hold jet down and sail over the spot the infiltrator trapped. you are using the most extreme examples of the jackals splash damage hitting for full damage when infact they have to be pretty d*** close to take full damage. you are also using the most extreme example of one sticky landing and the airburst doing damage too to add up to 750 which is only 50 more damage then the stealth spinfusor direct hit. like i said if you think you can do a better job of making a video game and balancing it why don't you apply for a job as a developer.
Thu May 03, 2012 7:07 pm

DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing DeadCellSpawn wrote: like i said if you think you can do a better job of making a video game and balancing it why don't you apply for a job as a developer. Joke's on you. Game Programming is my chosen field of study and design is a rather substantial part of it. Not that it would make my arguments any less valid if I wasn't, but I can't get enough of telling you that you're wrong. If you can jet to avoid Jackal rounds, you can jet to avoid a Spinfusor just as easily. The examples I'm giving you represent, for the most part, the minimum potential of the Jackal. If you're hitting with more than one grenade, which is far from impossible even outdoors, it's outright devastating. The Stealth Spinfusor operating at full capacity still doesn't even reach half of the Jackal's potential, and the Jackal is easier to use at the worst of times.
Thu May 03, 2012 7:25 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing @faeryl You know, I was going to say that I trust that you did your testing accurately, but then I remembered: "Oh, that's right, you can test weapons you don't have unlocked now!". So I went and tested it myself, and half a second is enough time for the last round to travel virtually the entire length of the crossfire gen room from back to front. But let's not bicker about that, we could both be in error here. You say it's 0.75 seconds and not 0.5 seconds? Ok, here are some new numbers for you: Do realize that I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but you can see that even allowing for 0.75 seconds, the Jackal would still be slightly more powerful than the SSF after these nerf variants, and still remain far more versatile. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Thu May 03, 2012 7:32 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4849 Location: NA East	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing WitchDoctorVega wrote: not so much a lack of design talent, as a lack of testing. Testing? What testing is needed to prove that a higher resolution scaling of splash damage, would better reward or punish accuracy? Have you ever gotten near misses with the Arx? The GL? It's kind of absurd. This is purely ideological. The only reason to used a banded system, is to have more control over how many misses kill vs how many direct hits, but what it does is over-reward most near misses. The SF has a BROAD 1st splash band, where you can basically do 650 for half of your splash range, then seems to go linear after that, until about 375. If the rest of the weapons are following suit, this creates a serious problem of over-rewarding the near misses in that first band, as well as other bands. The base damage for the weapon should never be seen, because the projectile collision will prevent the epicenter from ever contacting the target. Then scale the drop off linear. So if the SF did a base of 675, the closest splash damage would be (purely dependent on the fall of value) 660-670 (assuming it will fall off quicker than UT stuff), give you a 25% MA bonus (staying at 910) and be capable of as little as 50-100 damage on the out skirts of the blast. UT2 Rockets do 90 base damage. You don't get an MA bonus, so the most damage you ever see is 88, and the least I've ever seen is 8. This is actually why the overall DPS for SF class weapons has to be lower than autos, because the broad first band skews the average damage of the weapon. Now the weapon averages 650, as opposed to a linear dropoff which would push the average more towards the mean, which would be around 350, as the UT2 Rockets are, at ~45. This probably has a lot to do with why the global stats say more kills happen with SF class weapons than automatics, despite the ease of use, and superior DPS. The splash falloff on SF class weapons is extremely forgiving. IT would probably warrant increasing the base to almost 820, with the MA bonus of 10%. The rate of fire on some of these weapons makes it ridiculous. The GL doesn't need as much give as it has, it's explode on contact to begin with. The Arx doesn't give you any bonus for stickies (MA's), which is highway robbery outside, and does full damage for about the same first splash band the SF has (by %), making an otherwise extremely elegant weapon quite noob friendly. The jackal dets on command, so you either have the reaction time to detonate the fast moving projectile when it's close to the enemy, and worth the unstoppable air burst (with occasional MA bonus); or you don't have the reaction time, and plant them on a structure, timing the slow moving target as he passes by the projectile (safer, easier, and full damage). Hitting the 250 air burst again, has the same first wide band as the other weapons, and is significant for something that is unstoppable. Plasma should do graze damage. You shouldn't get air mails, and MA's should scale within the projectile. As in, the percentage of the projectile that collides with the target should do the same percentage of total damage the projectile is capable of, and it should only detonate on contact with solid surfaces, even then doing minimal splash damage. The problem is re balancing the splash damage algorithm to balance the Jackal probably means re doing all the non-op splash weapons. To compensate for the reduced average damage. Auto's still need to be nerfed either way. Man I didn't mean for that post to get that long. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 pm

Cyanistic Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm Posts: 3783 Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing Trilandian wrote: @faeryl You know, I was going to say that I trust that you did your testing accurately, but then I remembered: "Oh, that's right, you can test weapons you don't have unlocked now!". So I went and tested it myself, and half a second is enough time for the last round to travel virtually the entire length of the crossfire gen room from back to front. But let's not bicker about that, we could both be in error here. You say it's 0.75 seconds and not 0.5 seconds? Ok, here are some new numbers for you: Do realize that I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but you can see that even allowing for 0.75 seconds, the Jackal would still be slightly more powerful than the SSF after these nerf variants, and still remain far more versatile. Variant A seems nice.
Thu May 03, 2012 8:42 pm

WitchDoctorVega Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am Posts: 2482 Location: On the coast, NH Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing Trilandian wrote: @faeryl You know, I was going to say that I trust that you did your testing accurately, but then I remembered: "Oh, that's right, you can test weapons you don't have unlocked now!". So I went and tested it myself, and half a second is enough time for the last round to travel virtually the entire length of the crossfire gen room from back to front. But let's not bicker about that, we could both be in error here. You say it's 0.75 seconds and not 0.5 seconds? Ok, here are some new numbers for you: Do realize that I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but you can see that even allowing for 0.75 seconds, the Jackal would still be slightly more powerful than the SSF after these nerf variants, and still remain far more versatile. I like A1, and C1 _________________ CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!
Thu May 03, 2012 8:46 pm

faeryl Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:52 pm Posts: 176	Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing Trilandian wrote: @faeryl You know, I was going to say that I trust that you did your testing accurately, but then I remembered: "Oh, that's right, you can test weapons you don't have unlocked now!". So I went and tested it myself, and half a second is enough time for the last round to travel virtually the entire length of the crossfire gen room from back to front. well, you can try, the distance i showed on my drawing is the length of two explosion radius put next to another (-> OO). incidentally, this is how the stickies travel when fired (from a standstill position). from the moment you press the button to the moment the third sticky leave the jackal, 0.48s has passed. in the meantime, the first sticky (on the far right) will have traveled twice it's explosion radius : ....--OOO .......\|_.\| -- = jackal O = stickies explosion radius (the center of the left (=third) one is at the end of the jackal) \|_.\| = distance traveled in the interval by the first sticky. \|_.\| = right half of the third sticky + full second sticky + left half of the first sticky = twice the explosion radius. which is just a tiny bit more than the length of the gen room, from back to mid "door". Quote: Do realize that I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but you can see that even allowing for 0.75 seconds, the Jackal would still be slightly more powerful than the SSF after these nerf variants, and still remain far more versatile. without hesitation, i would say C3. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying we shouldn't touch the jackal. just two things: - we have to be really careful with it if we don't want to make it utterly useless, because with so many factors even tiny changes could wreck it - i just don't really see any game breaking problem with it as is which is why i'd rather not touch it than blindly follow what anyone says. and let's be honest, most of the nerfs suggested around here would just make the jackal useless. as far as i read, you're the first one taking into account the travel time of the stickies in your propositions. when i point this out, people just ignore me and come back later saying the same thing (like "ho, let's give it a 2s arming time, without changing anything else"... WUT? to get the full 1500damage on 3 stickies you'd need 0.48s to shoot them, ~0.75s for the travel time, plus 2s of arming time for a total of ~3.25s? and then, you'd still need to wait for the reload (1.72s more)? 5s for 1500damage? how would that not break the weapon?) now, honestly, here is what i would do if i had to choose: 1) no air burst 2) 0.5s arming time, starting after the landing of the sticky 3) 400 damage per sticky 4) rate of fire of 0.5s 5) clipsize of 42 (all stickies in one clip only, can set up as many as you want) 6) pressing reload only detonate stickies in direct line of sight 7) stickies less visible consequences : it becomes really impractical in direct combat (400damage for approx. the same time as a SSF hit). in exchange, you get a pure trapping device, really good at it. _________________ HiRezAPC wrote: <3 LagoonSeven wrote: making your math completely bogus and faeryl correct.
Thu May 03, 2012 9:34 pm

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Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

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-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4849
Location: NA East

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Wobberjockey wrote:

which is far more of an issue with the banded splash damage system they chose to implement as opposed to a linear or trigonometric function

Valid, and more evidence to the lack of design talent here.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Thu May 03, 2012 6:42 pm

WitchDoctorVega

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am
Posts: 2482
Location: On the coast, NH
Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

-AEnubis- wrote:

Wobberjockey wrote:

which is far more of an issue with the banded splash damage system they chose to implement as opposed to a linear or trigonometric function

Valid, and more evidence to the lack of design talent here.

not so much a lack of design talent, as a lack of testing.

_________________
CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!

Thu May 03, 2012 6:49 pm

DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

because melee in this game is way too glitchy to rely on and also to free up the first perk slot for something better like safety third or looter. pretty much every infiltrator was running close combat and survivalist before the jackal now you see some variations

Fix a broken mechanic by introducing a new weapon that does more damage, is safer, and doesn't require a perk to use? And at the same time, leave the broken mechanic in the game? To be perfectly honest with you, this is the exact response I was expecting. Here, let me dig up a Hi-Rez post that outright proves this was not why they created the Jackal:

http://forum.hirezstudios.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=801743#p801743

Unless of course you're so desperate that you think they "addressed the issues" by releasing the Jackal, that is.

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

last time i checked the stealth spinfusor projectiles cant be destroyed as it leaves your gun by SMG fire or explosive weapons blowing up in your face whereas the jackals projectiles can be. also the stealth spinfusor or even the rhino is way more reliable outdoors. sure you can use the jackal outdoors by guessing where the guy is going to land and detonating when they land on them or being good enough to stick them with mid airs. but anyone with any experience with the game will save some energy to jet at the last minute over your jackal rounds and avoid taking any damage what so ever.

You argue that the 72 km/h jetpack cap is fine in one breath and then turn to claim that they're powerful enough to break your fall and save you from a bed of Jackal grenades within hours. I think it's time to give up, buddy. While I'm still here, though, no preventative measure will result in you taking less damage from the Jackal than you would from a similarly aimed Stealth Spinfusor. Shooting your own feet without Egocentric is guaranteed to hurt you for more than 500 damage and it requires you to be firing at yourself rather than the Infiltrator. If even one grenade detonates near you, it does the same damage as the SS's splash, and you get three grenades to work with. If you land one mid-air with the Stealth Spinfusor it does 700 damage, but with the Jackal you get 750 - one from the stuck projectile and one from a nearby airburst when it's detonated.

Thu May 03, 2012 6:52 pm

DeadCellSpawn

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am
Posts: 407

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

first off i never said the 72 jetpack cap is fine i only pointed out that they may have their reasons for setting it up like that map size perhaps could you imagine how easy it would be to fly from ship to ship in crossfire with stronger jetpacks. also it is completely possible to jet at the last minute to miss the jackal rounds unless you used up all your energy and are falling like a ton of bricks you should be able to hold jet down and sail over the spot the infiltrator trapped.

you are using the most extreme examples of the jackals splash damage hitting for full damage when infact they have to be pretty d*** close to take full damage. you are also using the most extreme example of one sticky landing and the airburst doing damage too to add up to 750 which is only 50 more damage then the stealth spinfusor direct hit.

like i said if you think you can do a better job of making a video game and balancing it why don't you apply for a job as a developer.

Thu May 03, 2012 7:07 pm

DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

DeadCellSpawn wrote:

like i said if you think you can do a better job of making a video game and balancing it why don't you apply for a job as a developer.

Joke's on you. Game Programming is my chosen field of study and design is a rather substantial part of it. Not that it would make my arguments any less valid if I wasn't, but I can't get enough of telling you that you're wrong.

If you can jet to avoid Jackal rounds, you can jet to avoid a Spinfusor just as easily. The examples I'm giving you represent, for the most part, the minimum potential of the Jackal. If you're hitting with more than one grenade, which is far from impossible even outdoors, it's outright devastating. The Stealth Spinfusor operating at full capacity still doesn't even reach half of the Jackal's potential, and the Jackal is easier to use at the worst of times.

Thu May 03, 2012 7:25 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

@faeryl

You know, I was going to say that I trust that you did your testing accurately, but then I remembered: "Oh, that's right, you can test weapons you don't have unlocked now!". So I went and tested it myself, and half a second is enough time for the last round to travel virtually the entire length of the crossfire gen room from back to front.

But let's not bicker about that, we could both be in error here. You say it's 0.75 seconds and not 0.5 seconds? Ok, here are some new numbers for you:

Do realize that I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but you can see that even allowing for 0.75 seconds, the Jackal would still be slightly more powerful than the SSF after these nerf variants, and still remain far more versatile.

_________________
Thump... BOOM
---
My Contributions
Intelligent Turret Placement
Management tools
---
Important Topics
Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF
Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT
Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT
Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC

Thu May 03, 2012 7:32 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4849
Location: NA East

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

WitchDoctorVega wrote:

not so much a lack of design talent, as a lack of testing.

Testing? What testing is needed to prove that a higher resolution scaling of splash damage, would better reward or punish accuracy? Have you ever gotten near misses with the Arx? The GL? It's kind of absurd.

This is purely ideological. The only reason to used a banded system, is to have more control over how many misses kill vs how many direct hits, but what it does is over-reward most near misses.

The SF has a BROAD 1st splash band, where you can basically do 650 for half of your splash range, then seems to go linear after that, until about 375. If the rest of the weapons are following suit, this creates a serious problem of over-rewarding the near misses in that first band, as well as other bands.

The base damage for the weapon should never be seen, because the projectile collision will prevent the epicenter from ever contacting the target. Then scale the drop off linear.

So if the SF did a base of 675, the closest splash damage would be (purely dependent on the fall of value) 660-670 (assuming it will fall off quicker than UT stuff), give you a 25% MA bonus (staying at 910) and be capable of as little as 50-100 damage on the out skirts of the blast.

UT2 Rockets do 90 base damage. You don't get an MA bonus, so the most damage you ever see is 88, and the least I've ever seen is 8. This is actually why the overall DPS for SF class weapons has to be lower than autos, because the broad first band skews the average damage of the weapon. Now the weapon averages 650, as opposed to a linear dropoff which would push the average more towards the mean, which would be around 350, as the UT2 Rockets are, at ~45. This probably has a lot to do with why the global stats say more kills happen with SF class weapons than automatics, despite the ease of use, and superior DPS. The splash falloff on SF class weapons is extremely forgiving.

IT would probably warrant increasing the base to almost 820, with the MA bonus of 10%.

The rate of fire on some of these weapons makes it ridiculous. The GL doesn't need as much give as it has, it's explode on contact to begin with. The Arx doesn't give you any bonus for stickies (MA's), which is highway robbery outside, and does full damage for about the same first splash band the SF has (by %), making an otherwise extremely elegant weapon quite noob friendly. The jackal dets on command, so you either have the reaction time to detonate the fast moving projectile when it's close to the enemy, and worth the unstoppable air burst (with occasional MA bonus); or you don't have the reaction time, and plant them on a structure, timing the slow moving target as he passes by the projectile (safer, easier, and full damage). Hitting the 250 air burst again, has the same first wide band as the other weapons, and is significant for something that is unstoppable.

Plasma should do graze damage. You shouldn't get air mails, and MA's should scale within the projectile. As in, the percentage of the projectile that collides with the target should do the same percentage of total damage the projectile is capable of, and it should only detonate on contact with solid surfaces, even then doing minimal splash damage.

The problem is re balancing the splash damage algorithm to balance the Jackal probably means re doing all the non-op splash weapons. To compensate for the reduced average damage. Auto's still need to be nerfed either way. Man I didn't mean for that post to get that long.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 pm

Cyanistic

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 3783
Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Trilandian wrote:

Variant A seems nice.

Thu May 03, 2012 8:42 pm

WitchDoctorVega

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am
Posts: 2482
Location: On the coast, NH
Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Trilandian wrote:

I like A1, and C1

_________________
CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!

Thu May 03, 2012 8:46 pm

faeryl

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 176

Re: Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing

Trilandian wrote:

well, you can try, the distance i showed on my drawing is the length of two explosion radius put next to another (-> OO).
incidentally, this is how the stickies travel when fired (from a standstill position).

from the moment you press the button to the moment the third sticky leave the jackal, 0.48s has passed. in the meantime, the first sticky (on the far right) will have traveled twice it's explosion radius :
....--OOO
.......|_.|

-- = jackal
O = stickies explosion radius (the center of the left (=third) one is at the end of the jackal)
|_.| = distance traveled in the interval by the first sticky.
|_.| = right half of the third sticky + full second sticky + left half of the first sticky = twice the explosion radius. which is just a tiny bit more than the length of the gen room, from back to mid "door".

Quote:

without hesitation, i would say C3.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying we shouldn't touch the jackal.
just two things:
- we have to be really careful with it if we don't want to make it utterly useless, because with so many factors even tiny changes could wreck it
- i just don't really see any game breaking problem with it as is

which is why i'd rather not touch it than blindly follow what anyone says.
and let's be honest, most of the nerfs suggested around here would just make the jackal useless.
as far as i read, you're the first one taking into account the travel time of the stickies in your propositions.
when i point this out, people just ignore me and come back later saying the same thing
(like "ho, let's give it a 2s arming time, without changing anything else"... WUT? to get the full 1500damage on 3 stickies you'd need 0.48s to shoot them, ~0.75s for the travel time, plus 2s of arming time for a total of ~3.25s? and then, you'd still need to wait for the reload (1.72s more)? 5s for 1500damage? how would that not break the weapon?)

now, honestly, here is what i would do if i had to choose:
1) no air burst
2) 0.5s arming time, starting after the landing of the sticky
3) 400 damage per sticky
4) rate of fire of 0.5s
5) clipsize of 42 (all stickies in one clip only, can set up as many as you want)
6) pressing reload only detonate stickies in direct line of sight
7) stickies less visible

consequences :
it becomes really impractical in direct combat (400damage for approx. the same time as a SSF hit).
in exchange, you get a pure trapping device, really good at it.

_________________

HiRezAPC wrote:

LagoonSeven wrote:

making your math completely bogus and faeryl correct.

Thu May 03, 2012 9:34 pm

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Jackal and Plasma Gun. Both Need Fixing