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Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics
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VonSchlupeurk Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm Posts: 448	Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics Early on , alpha testers may have been skeptical of additions to the original arsenal of tribal grace weapons , but Hi-Rez delivered acceptable variations of the spinfusor archetype (thumpers with a distinct niche) and the brilliant arx buster - the simple concept of sequential detonations which are so challenging to fully use outside cramped generator rooms. The jumper's thrust pack also promoted creativity. Then , they started adding expensive , easier to use explosive weapons to complement the ever-growing pool of machineguns. Balance notwithstanding , people with a distance of easy mode were left with nothing to strive for besides a higher blue plate count. No suitable unlocks to be found. Thematic consistency was pretty much thrown out of the window with the cloak & dagger pack , so there is nothing to lose asking for radically different weapons. Let's list the possibilities here , weapons / packs / perks specifically designed to add challenge. Difficulty in leading targets with tribes' predictable weapons is variable , but with sufficient learning your cerebellum soon does most of the work. Blue plates highlight skill , but not necessarily strategy. I'll start with two simple concepts that could add some : 1) Accelerating projectiles Pretty much all projectiles either fly in a straight line or obey gravity. Boring ! Let's add some extra forces to the mix. To focus on player control , I present Curve Discs. Imagine if you could curve your spinfusor discs like a ping pong ball. How would you control that ? Simply by charging your shot and pointing away from your original aim , which will accelerate the disc in that direction (or opposite) when it's fired. Light force would give trajectories similar to the bolt launcher , with full force it could very well hit behind corners and steep hills. Now imagine tricking your opponent to deliver a curved blue plate at range. Interested yet ? Possible damage bonus (to differentiate from classical arcing weapons) may rely on charging strength , or maximum disc velocity. After all , a stronger curve gives the target more time to dodge. Rocket Rounds are more mundane , yet add some extra skill to bullet weapons prediction. With a slow initial speed , they would be less practical for medium range tracking , but will eventually accelerate to ludicrous speeds as they fly across the map. Falloff would work backwards , damage increasing with velocity so that the original sidearms remain relevant. A sharp aim would make this ideal for chasing , a slower LAR burst (with no spread) is a decent solution to give some margin while discouraging long range spraying. Of course , stationary targets are fair game. 2) High bounce projectiles Currently underexplored , due to the nova blaster being a sentinel sidearm. No equivalent for explosives , however - only sticky , impact and low bounce. This is tricky to balance for indoors and outdoors roles while limiting spam , that concept may not be all that viable. Some pathfinders would love a Superball Launcher to convert their speed into killing power. Breaking the trend of all pathfinder weapons exploding on impact , this gravity-obeying projectile needs to bounce at least once before exploding - unless map boundaries are crossed , that is. The airbust timing is a separate balance consideration , but distance crossed from the bounce depends on its momentum and direction. Damage dealt in the area of effect may be proportional to the projectile's maximum velocity reached in flight , or the owner's air speed when fired. A 300km/h flyby could murder any target in the right conditions. The potential challenge of using terrain for angled shots in high-speed chases is massive. Note that those weapons are not necessarily meant for competitive settings as they may be too unreliable compared to spinfusors and rifles. Rather , being able to score kills at all with them is half of the reward. In the event that you're still reading , be sure to post more suggestions. Perhaps modding may be allowed one day. _________________ Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.
Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 pm

WitchDoctorVega Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am Posts: 2482 Location: On the coast, NH Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..	Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics VonSchlupeurk wrote: Rocket Rounds are more mundane , yet add some extra skill to bullet weapons prediction. With a slow initial speed , they would be less practical for medium range tracking , but will eventually accelerate to ludicrous speeds as they fly across the map. Falloff would work backwards , damage increasing with velocity so that the original sidearms remain relevant. A sharp aim would make this ideal for chasing , a slower LAR burst (with no spread) is a decent solution to give some margin while discouraging long range spraying. Of course , stationary targets are fair game. i think you just found a way to make Automatic weapons a hell of a lot less cheap upclose. So they might do like 40 damage for the first 50 feet or so and then increase to up to 100 dmg or so once speed begins building? I like it, a lot. _________________ CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!
Wed May 02, 2012 11:17 pm

Fallwind Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:36 pm Posts: 740	Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics WitchDoctorVega wrote: VonSchlupeurk wrote: Rocket Rounds are more mundane , yet add some extra skill to bullet weapons prediction. With a slow initial speed , they would be less practical for medium range tracking , but will eventually accelerate to ludicrous speeds as they fly across the map. Falloff would work backwards , damage increasing with velocity so that the original sidearms remain relevant. A sharp aim would make this ideal for chasing , a slower LAR burst (with no spread) is a decent solution to give some margin while discouraging long range spraying. Of course , stationary targets are fair game. i think you just found a way to make Automatic weapons a hell of a lot less cheap upclose. So they might do like 40 damage for the first 50 feet or so and then increase to up to 100 dmg or so once speed begins building? I like it, a lot. My only worry would be vs stationary (or nearly stationary) targets that can be seen from half way to Mars (Raindance flagstand sniping from one of the towers). Could make for some absurd damage numbers. _________________ BOOMS FOR THE BOOM GOD! Play to win or I will.
Thu May 03, 2012 12:11 am

VonSchlupeurk Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm Posts: 448	Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics Of course damage would only increase up to a maximum value. I suppose such weapons may deal less or no damage to deployables , so that a HoF can protect himself with force fields. Any Unreal Engine 3 experts around ? I wonder if acceleration functions for projectiles would significantly increase their server CPU cost. If not , that may work as a generalized solution for long range bullet weapons. _________________ Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.
Fri May 04, 2012 8:37 am

ShpongleEyes Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:01 pm Posts: 224	Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics lvl 40+ should play with themselves..like range 40-50 should have their own servers where they couldnt rape lowbies like me _________________
Fri May 04, 2012 8:41 am

Antago Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:11 pm Posts: 419	Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics VonSchlupeurk wrote: To focus on player control , I present Curve Discs. I've often thought about this myself, and I think it would make an awesome addition.
Fri May 04, 2012 9:30 am

mousedisc Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 am Posts: 531	Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics buckler 2.0 _________________ ADD CONFIGURABLE CROSSHAIRS: + * . O RELEASE MAPPING TOOLS
Fri May 04, 2012 12:25 pm

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Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

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VonSchlupeurk

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm
Posts: 448

Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

Early on , alpha testers may have been skeptical of additions to the original arsenal of tribal grace weapons , but Hi-Rez delivered acceptable variations of the spinfusor archetype (thumpers with a distinct niche) and the brilliant arx buster - the simple concept of sequential detonations which are so challenging to fully use outside cramped generator rooms. The jumper's thrust pack also promoted creativity.

Then , they started adding expensive , easier to use explosive weapons to complement the ever-growing pool of machineguns. Balance notwithstanding , people with a distance of easy mode were left with nothing to strive for besides a higher blue plate count. No suitable unlocks to be found.

Thematic consistency was pretty much thrown out of the window with the cloak & dagger pack , so there is nothing to lose asking for radically different weapons. Let's list the possibilities here , weapons / packs / perks specifically designed to add challenge.

Difficulty in leading targets with tribes' predictable weapons is variable , but with sufficient learning your cerebellum soon does most of the work. Blue plates highlight skill , but not necessarily strategy. I'll start with two simple concepts that could add some :

1) Accelerating projectiles

Pretty much all projectiles either fly in a straight line or obey gravity. Boring ! Let's add some extra forces to the mix.

To focus on player control , I present Curve Discs.

Imagine if you could curve your spinfusor discs like a ping pong ball. How would you control that ? Simply by charging your shot and pointing away from your original aim , which will accelerate the disc in that direction (or opposite) when it's fired.
Light force would give trajectories similar to the bolt launcher , with full force it could very well hit behind corners and steep hills.
Now imagine tricking your opponent to deliver a curved blue plate at range. Interested yet ?

Possible damage bonus (to differentiate from classical arcing weapons) may rely on charging strength , or maximum disc velocity. After all , a stronger curve gives the target more time to dodge.

Rocket Rounds are more mundane , yet add some extra skill to bullet weapons prediction.

With a slow initial speed , they would be less practical for medium range tracking , but will eventually accelerate to ludicrous speeds as they fly across the map. Falloff would work backwards , damage increasing with velocity so that the original sidearms remain relevant.

A sharp aim would make this ideal for chasing , a slower LAR burst (with no spread) is a decent solution to give some margin while discouraging long range spraying. Of course , stationary targets are fair game.

2) High bounce projectiles

Currently underexplored , due to the nova blaster being a sentinel sidearm. No equivalent for explosives , however - only sticky , impact and low bounce.
This is tricky to balance for indoors and outdoors roles while limiting spam , that concept may not be all that viable.

Some pathfinders would love a Superball Launcher to convert their speed into killing power.

Breaking the trend of all pathfinder weapons exploding on impact , this gravity-obeying projectile needs to bounce at least once before exploding - unless map boundaries are crossed , that is.
The airbust timing is a separate balance consideration , but distance crossed from the bounce depends on its momentum and direction.
Damage dealt in the area of effect may be proportional to the projectile's maximum velocity reached in flight , or the owner's air speed when fired. A 300km/h flyby could murder any target in the right conditions. The potential challenge of using terrain for angled shots in high-speed chases is massive.

Note that those weapons are not necessarily meant for competitive settings as they may be too unreliable compared to spinfusors and rifles. Rather , being able to score kills at all with them is half of the reward.

In the event that you're still reading , be sure to post more suggestions. Perhaps modding may be allowed one day.

_________________

Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.

Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 pm

WitchDoctorVega

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am
Posts: 2482
Location: On the coast, NH
Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..

Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

VonSchlupeurk wrote:

Rocket Rounds are more mundane , yet add some extra skill to bullet weapons prediction.

With a slow initial speed , they would be less practical for medium range tracking , but will eventually accelerate to ludicrous speeds as they fly across the map. Falloff would work backwards , damage increasing with velocity so that the original sidearms remain relevant.

A sharp aim would make this ideal for chasing , a slower LAR burst (with no spread) is a decent solution to give some margin while discouraging long range spraying. Of course , stationary targets are fair game.

i think you just found a way to make Automatic weapons a hell of a lot less cheap upclose.

So they might do like 40 damage for the first 50 feet or so and then increase to up to 100 dmg or so once speed begins building? I like it, a lot.

_________________
CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!

Wed May 02, 2012 11:17 pm

Fallwind

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:36 pm
Posts: 740

Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

WitchDoctorVega wrote:

VonSchlupeurk wrote:

My only worry would be vs stationary (or nearly stationary) targets that can be seen from half way to Mars (Raindance flagstand sniping from one of the towers). Could make for some absurd damage numbers.

_________________
BOOMS FOR THE BOOM GOD!

Play to win or I will.

Thu May 03, 2012 12:11 am

VonSchlupeurk

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm
Posts: 448

Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

Of course damage would only increase up to a maximum value. I suppose such weapons may deal less or no damage to deployables , so that a HoF can protect himself with force fields.

Any Unreal Engine 3 experts around ? I wonder if acceleration functions for projectiles would significantly increase their server CPU cost. If not , that may work as a generalized solution for long range bullet weapons.

_________________

Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.

Fri May 04, 2012 8:37 am

ShpongleEyes

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 224

Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

lvl 40+ should play with themselves..like range 40-50 should have their own servers where they couldnt rape lowbies like me

_________________

Fri May 04, 2012 8:41 am

Antago

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:11 pm
Posts: 419

Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

VonSchlupeurk wrote:

To focus on player control , I present Curve Discs.

I've often thought about this myself, and I think it would make an awesome addition.

Fri May 04, 2012 9:30 am

mousedisc

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 am
Posts: 531

Re: Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics

buckler 2.0

_________________
ADD CONFIGURABLE CROSSHAIRS: + * . O
RELEASE MAPPING TOOLS

Fri May 04, 2012 12:25 pm

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Need for higher level grace weapons / mechanics