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Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?
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Yetskii Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:34 am Posts: 754	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Punichan wrote: Yetskii wrote: So, grabbing the flag at 300 sanics slows a capper how much? 10% So the capper is still going 270 sanics... 20%? 240 sanics... Think you can still stop them? How much weight/air resistance do you think would fix this? Slow him down to 150 sanics/50%??? Remember, it's NOT JUST SLOWING DOWN AFTER GRABBING... I said: ACTUAL slowing down on flat surface, more gravity when going up hill... and MORE ENERGY to fly, and boost... the capper IS generally going to have to slow own a bit, and harder to "fly", or break the sonic barrier AFTER GRABBING THE FLAG... I don't want to make capping mission impossible... just want to give the chasers a chance to catch up...after all, speed capping IS A SKILL ON IT'S OWN, I don't want to take that part of game play away; like I said in the begining, the capper, and the chasers are the SAME CLASS, one can do capping in great speed, by starting off on a nice hill, the other can do just that on an other hill... the ONLY differences is that one have to react AFTER the other... to give new obstacles/handicap(just a little) will force the cappers to: choose the counter perks/upgrades/load-outs to compensate, AND still have to deal with the new gravity, and lack of knock back boost... I respect cappers, because I have ONLY CAPPED 2ice (all the way) in my ENTIRE T:A play... Remember, as a chasers, you too have the opportunities to "hill up" your speed to chase... I only ask for a chance for the "after reacted" Oh, and BTW, Notice I didn't put ANY numbers or percentage? I did that knowing that HiRez like to take requests, but NOT put the same numbers as requested...(usually less than what you ask) so I did not use numbers... but I DO try my best to be reasonable/descriptive though... Besides... it IS their game... why should I worry about the programing side of things? So you want to make it so the longer you have the flag the slower you are going to go? Higher gravity because you have the the Flag? What are you smoking? Are you trying to kill the game?
Tue May 01, 2012 1:58 pm

DogmeatX Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:13 am Posts: 1259	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? What SmoothP said ^ I'm about giving up on any noticeable changes any more. Not playing as much and slowly losing interest/only play with friends. Will see what H-R do over next few patches but if nothing substantial I think this is how the game is going to be... too late for major changes, seeing as how it's not beta anymore (officially anyway) Chasing is broken, when you have recent tournament winners saying the same thing and H-R not really making much of a comment about it.. well, just gonna wait and see for a bit longer...
Tue May 01, 2012 1:59 pm

Punichan Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am Posts: 465	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Yetskii wrote: Punichan wrote: Yetskii wrote: So, grabbing the flag at 300 sanics slows a capper how much? 10% So the capper is still going 270 sanics... 20%? 240 sanics... Think you can still stop them? How much weight/air resistance do you think would fix this? Slow him down to 150 sanics/50%??? Remember, it's NOT JUST SLOWING DOWN AFTER GRABBING... I said: ACTUAL slowing down on flat surface, more gravity when going up hill... and MORE ENERGY to fly, and boost... the capper IS generally going to have to slow own a bit, and harder to "fly", or break the sonic barrier AFTER GRABBING THE FLAG... I don't want to make capping mission impossible... just want to give the chasers a chance to catch up...after all, speed capping IS A SKILL ON IT'S OWN, I don't want to take that part of game play away; like I said in the begining, the capper, and the chasers are the SAME CLASS, one can do capping in great speed, by starting off on a nice hill, the other can do just that on an other hill... the ONLY differences is that one have to react AFTER the other... to give new obstacles/handicap(just a little) will force the cappers to: choose the counter perks/upgrades/load-outs to compensate, AND still have to deal with the new gravity, and lack of knock back boost... I respect cappers, because I have ONLY CAPPED 2ice (all the way) in my ENTIRE T:A play... Remember, as a chasers, you too have the opportunities to "hill up" your speed to chase... I only ask for a chance for the "after reacted" Oh, and BTW, Notice I didn't put ANY numbers or percentage? I did that knowing that HiRez like to take requests, but NOT put the same numbers as requested...(usually less than what you ask) so I did not use numbers... but I DO try my best to be reasonable/descriptive though... Besides... it IS their game... why should I worry about the programing side of things? So you want to make it so the longer you have the flag the slower you are going to go? Higher gravity because you have the the Flag? What are you smoking? Are you trying to kill the game? I keep abbreviating (little bit) did you NOT SEE? I didn't say DISABLE speed capping, I said making it harder to achieve super speed, and give Chasers a chance, I didn't ask for easy chase?! WTH? When did I said you CAN'T GAIN SPEED"? I said harder, not impossible? or do you enjoy train monkey victories?
Tue May 01, 2012 2:15 pm

mousedisc Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 am Posts: 531	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? You can't design the classes around loose and disorganized pub play. If you watch the competition matches you'll see people can barely get the flag off the stand as it is. For a tangential solution, I suggested a new gametype of simplified ctf, so people wont get hampered by poor base defense or not enough light defenders. In T1 it was LT in T:V the _no_rape map mods were very similar in spirit. Unfortunately there is no way for the coders to figure out how many jug/pth/rdr or whatever loadouts you should have nor what positions you should play etc. The game will always evolve slightly differently for each map, and even then a different strategy switch mid map would throw off any system that tried to figure out if the team has the right people on the job. Thats base CTF, it will always be super hard to teach to pubbers, and part of the reason I advocate the Simple CTF option in my sig as another gametype option. _________________ ADD CONFIGURABLE CROSSHAIRS: + * . O RELEASE MAPPING TOOLS
Tue May 01, 2012 2:36 pm

fac3nade Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:15 am Posts: 1145	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? if someone grabs at 350 you're not supposed to catch him. end of story. you failed at flag d. the solution is already in the game. thrust pack. it needs a buff. instant 200kph. at or above 2 it does nothing. not even use energy. it says ERRRRk. and flashes red. this won't actually make fast grabs any faster. it will only decrease the time between spawn and grab. if you don't understand why then you probably aren't a capper and you shouldn't comment a buffed thruster will give chasers a fighting chance. as i capper i'd probably still use the energy pack because sustainability is far more important when your base is raided and you flag is taken. or of course you could simply write up a cute back story about why flags and thrust packs are incompatible and make it where thrust pack users can't grab, but it's pointless cause like i said, it's not going to make fast grabs any faster. right now i can pretty much guarantee that if you cannot beat my cap grab speed using an energy pack you will not beat it using a thrust pack either. _________________
Tue May 01, 2012 2:53 pm

Nuggetman Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am Posts: 135	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? Maybe not exactly weight, but something...maybe flag friction? I think you are looking at it all wrong. It wouldn't go BAM and then slow the capper all of a sudden. That would be devastating to gameplay. I could see something like: With the flag in hand you generate more friction against the air you are traveling through. People without the flag would generate no friction in the same class giving them the ability to catch the person with friction. Person with flag has friction applied. Person without flag is frictionless like it is now. Either way I think the OP has sent us in the right direction for figuring this out if there is anything to figure. _________________
Tue May 01, 2012 3:00 pm

Nuggetman Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am Posts: 135	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? fac3nade wrote: if someone grabs at 350 you're not supposed to catch him. end of story. you failed at flag d. Also how can you even say this with things like tactical strikes and oribitals in the game. If things like this were not in play I could see your point. You could say "They don't use orbitals in comp play though" and I would say "90% of the people who play this game are probably not going to be comp players" Sorry I failed defending against the giant red beam in the sky that kills your whole team. _________________ Last edited by Nuggetman on Tue May 01, 2012 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tue May 01, 2012 3:02 pm

mousedisc Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 am Posts: 531	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? A buffed boost pack would help tremendously for path on path action. Not sure how it would impact paths vs everyone else though. Imo, there are larger problems such as being able to even get the flag off the stand. So far competitive t:a play seem to be so heavy on d that cappers can't even run routes. _________________ ADD CONFIGURABLE CROSSHAIRS: + * . O RELEASE MAPPING TOOLS
Tue May 01, 2012 3:03 pm

irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? fac3nade wrote: the solution is already in the game. thrust pack. it needs a buff. instant 200kph. Sorry, this is a poor solution. Thrust Pack shouldn't be "press for insta high speed" for unskilled players who don't know how to ski.
Tue May 01, 2012 5:56 pm

Nuggetman Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am Posts: 135	Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC? irimi wrote: fac3nade wrote: the solution is already in the game. thrust pack. it needs a buff. instant 200kph. Sorry, this is a poor solution. Thrust Pack shouldn't be "press for insta high speed" for unskilled players who don't know how to ski. Kinda have to agree here _________________
Tue May 01, 2012 7:34 pm

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Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

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Yetskii

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:34 am
Posts: 754

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Punichan wrote:

Yetskii wrote:

So, grabbing the flag at 300 sanics slows a capper how much? 10%

So the capper is still going 270 sanics...

20%? 240 sanics...

Think you can still stop them?

How much weight/air resistance do you think would fix this?

Slow him down to 150 sanics/50%???

Remember, it's NOT JUST SLOWING DOWN AFTER GRABBING...

I said: ACTUAL slowing down on flat surface, more gravity when going up hill... and MORE ENERGY to fly, and boost... the capper IS generally going to have to slow own a bit, and harder to "fly", or break the sonic barrier AFTER GRABBING THE FLAG... I don't want to make capping mission impossible... just want to give the chasers a chance to catch up...after all, speed capping IS A SKILL ON IT'S OWN, I don't want to take that part of game play away; like I said in the begining, the capper, and the chasers are the SAME CLASS, one can do capping in great speed, by starting off on a nice hill, the other can do just that on an other hill... the ONLY differences is that one have to react AFTER the other... to give new obstacles/handicap(just a little) will force the cappers to: choose the counter perks/upgrades/load-outs to compensate, AND still have to deal with the new gravity, and lack of knock back boost... I respect cappers, because I have ONLY CAPPED 2ice (all the way) in my ENTIRE T:A play... Remember, as a chasers, you too have the opportunities to "hill up" your speed to chase... I only ask for a chance for the "after reacted"

Oh, and BTW, Notice I didn't put ANY numbers or percentage? I did that knowing that HiRez like to take requests, but NOT put the same numbers as requested...(usually less than what you ask) so I did not use numbers... but I DO try my best to be reasonable/descriptive though... Besides... it IS their game... why should I worry about the programing side of things?

So you want to make it so the longer you have the flag the slower you are going to go?

Higher gravity because you have the the Flag?

What are you smoking?

Are you trying to kill the game?

Tue May 01, 2012 1:58 pm

DogmeatX

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:13 am
Posts: 1259

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

What SmoothP said ^

I'm about giving up on any noticeable changes any more. Not playing as much and slowly losing interest/only play with friends. Will see what H-R do over next few patches but if nothing substantial I think this is how the game is going to be... too late for major changes, seeing as how it's not beta anymore (officially anyway)

Chasing is broken, when you have recent tournament winners saying the same thing and H-R not really making much of a comment about it.. well, just gonna wait and see for a bit longer...

Tue May 01, 2012 1:59 pm

Punichan

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am
Posts: 465

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Yetskii wrote:

Punichan wrote:

Yetskii wrote:

So you want to make it so the longer you have the flag the slower you are going to go?

Higher gravity because you have the the Flag?

What are you smoking?

Are you trying to kill the game?

I keep abbreviating (little bit) did you NOT SEE? I didn't say DISABLE speed capping, I said making it harder to achieve super speed, and give Chasers a chance, I didn't ask for easy chase?! WTH? When did I said you CAN'T GAIN SPEED"? I said harder, not impossible? or do you enjoy train monkey victories?

Tue May 01, 2012 2:15 pm

mousedisc

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 am
Posts: 531

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

You can't design the classes around loose and disorganized pub play. If you watch the competition matches you'll see people can barely get the flag off the stand as it is.

For a tangential solution, I suggested a new gametype of simplified ctf, so people wont get hampered by poor base defense or not enough light defenders. In T1 it was LT in T:V the _no_rape map mods were very similar in spirit.

Unfortunately there is no way for the coders to figure out how many jug/pth/rdr or whatever loadouts you should have nor what positions you should play etc. The game will always evolve slightly differently for each map, and even then a different strategy switch mid map would throw off any system that tried to figure out if the team has the right people on the job.

Thats base CTF, it will always be super hard to teach to pubbers, and part of the reason I advocate the Simple CTF option in my sig as another gametype option.

_________________
ADD CONFIGURABLE CROSSHAIRS: + * . O
RELEASE MAPPING TOOLS

Tue May 01, 2012 2:36 pm

fac3nade

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:15 am
Posts: 1145

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

if someone grabs at 350 you're not supposed to catch him. end of story. you failed at flag d.

the solution is already in the game. thrust pack. it needs a buff. instant 200kph. at or above 2 it does nothing. not even use energy. it says ERRRRk. and flashes red. this won't actually make fast grabs any faster. it will only decrease the time between spawn and grab. if you don't understand why then you probably aren't a capper and you shouldn't comment

a buffed thruster will give chasers a fighting chance. as i capper i'd probably still use the energy pack because sustainability is far more important when your base is raided and you flag is taken. or of course you could simply write up a cute back story about why flags and thrust packs are incompatible and make it where thrust pack users can't grab, but it's pointless cause like i said, it's not going to make fast grabs any faster. right now i can pretty much guarantee that if you cannot beat my cap grab speed using an energy pack you will not beat it using a thrust pack either.

_________________

Tue May 01, 2012 2:53 pm

Nuggetman

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 135

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

Maybe not exactly weight, but something...maybe flag friction?
I think you are looking at it all wrong. It wouldn't go BAM and then slow the capper all of a sudden. That would be devastating to gameplay.

I could see something like:

With the flag in hand you generate more friction against the air you are traveling through.

People without the flag would generate no friction in the same class giving them the ability to catch the person with friction.

Person with flag has friction applied.
Person without flag is frictionless like it is now.

Either way I think the OP has sent us in the right direction for figuring this out if there is anything to figure.

_________________

Tue May 01, 2012 3:00 pm

Nuggetman

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 135

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

fac3nade wrote:

if someone grabs at 350 you're not supposed to catch him. end of story. you failed at flag d.

Also how can you even say this with things like tactical strikes and oribitals in the game.
If things like this were not in play I could see your point.

You could say "They don't use orbitals in comp play though"
and I would say "90% of the people who play this game are probably not going to be comp players"

Sorry I failed defending against the giant red beam in the sky that kills your whole team.

_________________

Last edited by Nuggetman on Tue May 01, 2012 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue May 01, 2012 3:02 pm

mousedisc

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 am
Posts: 531

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

A buffed boost pack would help tremendously for path on path action. Not sure how it would impact paths vs everyone else though.

Imo, there are larger problems such as being able to even get the flag off the stand. So far competitive t:a play seem to be so heavy on d that cappers can't even run routes.

_________________
ADD CONFIGURABLE CROSSHAIRS: + * . O
RELEASE MAPPING TOOLS

Tue May 01, 2012 3:03 pm

irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

fac3nade wrote:

the solution is already in the game. thrust pack. it needs a buff. instant 200kph.

Sorry, this is a poor solution. Thrust Pack shouldn't be "press for insta high speed" for unskilled players who don't know how to ski.

Tue May 01, 2012 5:56 pm

Nuggetman

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 135

Re: Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?

irimi wrote:

fac3nade wrote:

the solution is already in the game. thrust pack. it needs a buff. instant 200kph.

Sorry, this is a poor solution. Thrust Pack shouldn't be "press for insta high speed" for unskilled players who don't know how to ski.

Kinda have to agree here

_________________

Tue May 01, 2012 7:34 pm

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Question to HiRez: How to chase SANIC?