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Map Feedback - CTF Raindance
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FluffDaSheep Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:08 am Posts: 473	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance Kaffein wrote: The base is fine as it always has been. If you can't get the flag from some turtles, your team is not coordinated. Try using brutes, or some raiders w/ shields. Try actually playing against 3+ juggernauts putting up a wall of constant mortar/mirv spam in the entrance. This setup will stop any number of attackers in any configuration. There is literally no possible way to get in or even get a shot at the defenders. It takes too long to descend into the hole and move into the room proper. By the time you would get through, you will have been hit by 2 or 3 mortar shots. Trust me, I've been there. Like I said, use your head please.
Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:43 am

Zacam Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:55 am Posts: 52 Location: Portland, OR Steam Gamer Name: Zacam	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance I'm intrigued and inclined to accept the idea of at least testing the concept of making the change to the grate on the base roof to resembling the FF type in the Arx Novena generator room floor. [Side Tangent] Even though the game has gone "Released", you obviously still know who all the Alpha/Beta Testers are, so rather than risking 'outrage' by implementing "live to everyone" game play changes or map changes like this, how about opening up an "Opt In" advanced group that could (based on account privileges and Custom Server akin to Whitelisting in so far as access is concerned) test such changes and refinements in a more localized fashion. This would also open the ability for comp players to test comp level playing scenarios with those changes, and any non-comp players to evaluate the 'Pub" aspects of the changes (and give those of us involved, should we desire to continue to be involved, a more concrete opportunity to do so. Which to me, would be a lot more fulfilling than having a "Veteran" badge. ) This could potentially prevent evaluation headaches (See: Jackal, Plasma Rifle) and since it would be an Opt-In case, foster more of a community involvement while allowing for "more than just the lab" limited testing of things, while at the same time, remove the notion from players that they are being "unlistened to" (other than those that perhaps are not a part of the process). [/Side Tangent] _________________ "If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"
Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:37 am

SacraficialLamb Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:38 pm Posts: 25	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance In a game this evening, was teamed up with someone who wanted to turtle up after two flag grabs (with 15+ minutes left). Sure enough, with he as a Brute, I as a Tech, another as a Doom, and a couple of randoms here and there, with a little flag swapping for healing, we were able to run the match into the end, 2-0. He announced he was going turtle immediately after getting into our base. Apparently he made a lot of enemies tonight, myself included for defending the strategy. Friendlies were trying to melee him, if not to kill him, then to distract him by blocking his view. But I digress... No one seems to think the base is broken, but there was much name calling, and cries of "5 minute cap limit or return". I should have screencap'd it, but I didn't. Despite the feeling in that game by the masses, I'd have to argue the base needs another way in... EDIT: Reading some previous posts. I agree that making the grate up top permeable to weapons-fire could cure "fix" this map as well...
Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:24 pm

Entropy Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am Posts: 292 Steam Gamer Name: sianmink	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance Something's gotta be done about flag turtling on Raindance. It's excessively easy to hide the enemy flag in your genroom until you can capture it, and I've heard of matches going to crap when both teams have unassailable genrooms with the other team's flag. easy fix: force the flagcarrier to drop an enemy flag upon entering their own base, or reject the flag carrier entirely unless he manually drops. hard fix: add a second entrance that can't be mortarspammed. maybe a tunnel through the flag tower.
Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:32 am

wooser Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm Posts: 695	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance Yep, it's getting to be commonplace to camp the flag in the gen room. Makes the map absolutely no fun for anyone. If you don't do something about this you're pissing off a lot of people and the die-hard vets are a much smaller percentage of anyone that thinks this f*** ing sucks.
Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:01 am

AcidMantis Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:25 pm Posts: 179	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance I don't know. We had a stalemate going on the other night with pretty much half of each team turtled and the other half assaulting the other turtle. The other team got through and returned their flag in a few minutes. They used a coordinated rush, something that was commonplace in previous Tribes. I don't mind having one map where this issue pops up occasionally and must be overcome with some different tactics. If it's not a stalemate and one team will win if the time runs out, and there is just no way to get in the base, stop going in the base. Are they just going to sit there and not do anything for 10 minutes? Unlikely. Throw a picnic on their doorstep and wait for 'em. I'll bring a disco ball.
Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:58 am

UniversalPie Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm Posts: 619 Location: GTA Ontario	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance Any way to know if Hi-Rez is considering, or even read the Arx Novena style grate replacement idea? _________________
Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:51 pm

wooser Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm Posts: 695	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance AcidMantis wrote: I don't know. We had a stalemate going on the other night with pretty much half of each team turtled and the other half assaulting the other turtle. The other team got through and returned their flag in a few minutes. They used a coordinated rush, something that was commonplace in previous Tribes. I don't mind having one map where this issue pops up occasionally and must be overcome with some different tactics. If it's not a stalemate and one team will win if the time runs out, and there is just no way to get in the base, stop going in the base. Are they just going to sit there and not do anything for 10 minutes? Unlikely. Throw a picnic on their doorstep and wait for 'em. I'll bring a disco ball. Sorry but it's possible to make it literally impossible to get through the chokepoint without dying if you have just 2-3 jugs spamming it in turn. There's a 40 minutes video of it even. Rave on about teamwork all you want, I'd like to actually see some evidence of it being possible to get through a wall of spam like that and avoid the map clocking out into a stalemate.
Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:13 pm

Dormivi Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 pm Posts: 108	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance AcidMantis wrote: Throw a picnic on their doorstep and wait for 'em. I'll bring a disco ball. If they care enough to turtle up with a 1 point lead or whatever, then they care enough to not leave. You may get the occasional medium or light popping out but no way are they gonna un-turtle _________________ T:A- Dormivi -AEnubis- wrote: It's kinda funny how you can gauge skill level from post content.
Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:39 pm

pala Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:40 am Posts: 895	Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance Big problem indeed. Base was designed for tribes game where you didint have eternal health regen and inventories got smashed during the spam and friendly fire was enabled. Which ascend had similiar features. I loved the secondary door way idea from flag stand to the basement. But perhaps the roof top cover and opening the hatch would do the he same. I prefer #1. Anyway something needs to be done to this. Tho if you turtle in basement. Game is so fast that flag is regrabbed two times in time you get up from the base and to the flag stand. _________________
Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:44 am

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Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

Author

Message

FluffDaSheep

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 473

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

Kaffein wrote:

The base is fine as it always has been.

If you can't get the flag from some turtles, your team is not coordinated.

Try using brutes, or some raiders w/ shields.

Try actually playing against 3+ juggernauts putting up a wall of constant mortar/mirv spam in the entrance. This setup will stop any number of attackers in any configuration.

There is literally no possible way to get in or even get a shot at the defenders. It takes too long to descend into the hole and move into the room proper. By the time you would get through, you will have been hit by 2 or 3 mortar shots. Trust me, I've been there.

Like I said, use your head please.

Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:43 am

Zacam

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:55 am
Posts: 52
Location: Portland, OR
Steam Gamer Name: Zacam

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

I'm intrigued and inclined to accept the idea of at least testing the concept of making the change to the grate on the base roof to resembling the FF type in the Arx Novena generator room floor.

[Side Tangent]
Even though the game has gone "Released", you obviously still know who all the Alpha/Beta Testers are, so rather than risking 'outrage' by implementing "live to everyone" game play changes or map changes like this, how about opening up an "Opt In" advanced group that could (based on account privileges and Custom Server akin to Whitelisting in so far as access is concerned) test such changes and refinements in a more localized fashion.

This would also open the ability for comp players to test comp level playing scenarios with those changes, and any non-comp players to evaluate the 'Pub" aspects of the changes (and give those of us involved, should we desire to continue to be involved, a more concrete opportunity to do so. Which to me, would be a lot more fulfilling than having a "Veteran" badge.

)

This could potentially prevent evaluation headaches (See: Jackal, Plasma Rifle) and since it would be an Opt-In case, foster more of a community involvement while allowing for "more than just the lab" limited testing of things, while at the same time, remove the notion from players that they are being "unlistened to" (other than those that perhaps are not a part of the process).
[/Side Tangent]

_________________

"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:37 am

SacraficialLamb

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:38 pm
Posts: 25

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

In a game this evening, was teamed up with someone who wanted to turtle up after two flag grabs (with 15+ minutes left). Sure enough, with he as a Brute, I as a Tech, another as a Doom, and a couple of randoms here and there, with a little flag swapping for healing, we were able to run the match into the end, 2-0.

He announced he was going turtle *immediately* after getting into our base. Apparently he made a lot of enemies tonight, myself included for defending the strategy. Friendlies were trying to melee him, if not to kill him, then to distract him by blocking his view. But I digress...

No one seems to think the base is broken, but there was much name calling, and cries of "5 minute cap limit or return".

I should have screencap'd it, but I didn't.

Despite the feeling in that game by the masses, I'd have to argue the base needs another way in...

EDIT: Reading some previous posts. I agree that making the grate up top permeable to weapons-fire could cure "fix" this map as well...

Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:24 pm

Entropy

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am
Posts: 292
Steam Gamer Name: sianmink

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

Something's gotta be done about flag turtling on Raindance. It's excessively easy to hide the enemy flag in your genroom until you can capture it, and I've heard of matches going to crap when both teams have unassailable genrooms with the other team's flag.

easy fix: force the flagcarrier to drop an enemy flag upon entering their own base, or reject the flag carrier entirely unless he manually drops.

hard fix: add a second entrance that can't be mortarspammed. maybe a tunnel through the flag tower.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:32 am

wooser

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 695

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

Yep, it's getting to be commonplace to camp the flag in the gen room. Makes the map absolutely no fun for anyone. If you don't do something about this you're pissing off a lot of people and the die-hard vets are a much smaller percentage of anyone that thinks this f*** ing sucks.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:01 am

AcidMantis

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:25 pm
Posts: 179

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

I don't know. We had a stalemate going on the other night with pretty much half of each team turtled and the other half assaulting the other turtle. The other team got through and returned their flag in a few minutes. They used a coordinated rush, something that was commonplace in previous Tribes. I don't mind having one map where this issue pops up occasionally and must be overcome with some different tactics. If it's not a stalemate and one team will win if the time runs out, and there is just no way to get in the base, stop going in the base. Are they just going to sit there and not do anything for 10 minutes? Unlikely. Throw a picnic on their doorstep and wait for 'em. I'll bring a disco ball.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:58 am

UniversalPie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 619
Location: GTA Ontario

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

Any way to know if Hi-Rez is considering, or even read the Arx Novena style grate replacement idea?

_________________

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:51 pm

wooser

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 695

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

AcidMantis wrote:

Sorry but it's possible to make it literally impossible to get through the chokepoint without dying if you have just 2-3 jugs spamming it in turn. There's a 40 minutes video of it even. Rave on about teamwork all you want, I'd like to actually see some evidence of it being possible to get through a wall of spam like that and avoid the map clocking out into a stalemate.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:13 pm

Dormivi

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 108

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

AcidMantis wrote:

Throw a picnic on their doorstep and wait for 'em. I'll bring a disco ball.

If they care enough to turtle up with a 1 point lead or whatever, then they care enough to not leave. You may get the occasional medium or light popping out but no way are they gonna un-turtle

_________________
T:A- Dormivi

-AEnubis- wrote:

It's kinda funny how you can gauge skill level from post content.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:39 pm

pala

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:40 am
Posts: 895

Re: Map Feedback - CTF Raindance

Big problem indeed. Base was designed for tribes game where you didint have eternal health regen and inventories got smashed during the spam and friendly fire was enabled.

Which ascend had similiar features.

I loved the secondary door way idea from flag stand to the basement. But perhaps the roof top cover and opening the hatch would do the he same. I prefer #1. Anyway something needs to be done to this.

Tho if you turtle in basement. Game is so fast that flag is regrabbed two times in time you get up from the base and to the flag stand.

_________________

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:44 am