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Why do automatics reward low latency?
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irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? hvcterr wrote: irimi wrote: Let's also not forget that it would royally screw with your movement/skiing. You could think that you just cleared a hill or something, but the game decides that you actually got hit and bounced into a rock 250ms ago. What then? While that is a real thing, I'd prefer to classify it as a "client-side prediction" issue, which is a separate process from lag-compensating your weapon-shots Almost every online FPS does client-side prediction, or else all basic movements would be laggy. When an "error" occurs ("oh, s***, I just told the user he jumped upwards, but the platform disappeared below him first") they typically solve it by "smoothing", to minimize jerks/warps. Reread my quote - and I apologize for not making it more clear in my terrible word choice. I was specifically referring to the knockback received from being hit by someone with a laggy spinfusor. videoP wrote: irimi wrote: You don't seem to understand what lag compensation does. I think almost no one in this thread does, especially the guy who thinks quake unlagged affects projectiles- it doesn't. Well, since I'm on the top of the page and I actually bothered to skim the two papers regarding lag compensation (the first one's kind of a wash; the Valve paper was much more clear about what they were doing) -- the gist of it is this: The problem that lag compensation tries to solve is one where the client side doesn't show the "true" state of the game at any given moment because of latency. On your game client, you see that someone is standing in front of you but they've already actually moved a little bit to the right. So if you tell your game client to shoot where you see the person, you're actually shooting thin air. Without lag compensation, players have to lead their shots depending on their ping. In a game with hitscan weapons, this is extremely undesirable because the experience is that you're going to have to be aiming your weapon at where you think your enemy is going to be, rather than aiming at where he is on your screen. In other words, in a high ping situation in a hitscan game, what you see on the screen is that you're shooting at thin air and killing people. In Tribes, this is less noticeable because of the AOE nature of explosive weapons - so small differences in distance aren't a huge deal and are not as noticeable. With lag compensation, what's on your screen when you fire a weapon is king, even if it's not where people are in reality according to the server. Essentially, lag compensation bends bullets - it says that if you aimed and hit someone on your screen exactly where you saw them, the server will count that as you hitting them. So the canonical example of this in a high ping situation is that someone with high ping will look like he's killing people around corners (this happens a lot in Counter-Strike) -- and the person with low ping will think that he went into safety, even though the high ping dude shot him ~200-300ms ago. Note that in both cases, lag compensation does NOT affect movement. It very well leaves that the hell alone by saying you are where you are according to the server, and no amount of lag or ping will change or correct for your position. The only thing they compensate for is whether someone got hit. In the killing people around corners example, the guy who gets shot IS in fact behind a wall (that's where his corpse will end up too, IIRC). And this is why lag compensation only works well for hitscan weapons. The game can get away with bending bullets and killing someone around corners because you don't actually see the bullets being fired, because there are no bullets being fired in the first place! But with projectiles, you have a problem. The guy shooting the weapon may see that his projectile fired straight and hit the guy on his screen, but everybody sees that his projectile hit dirt but the guy who's 3 feet away from the explosion dies anyway. You can bend invisible bullets without anybody seeing it, but you sure as hell can't bend a spinfusor without it looking completely wrong in the game.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:56 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4888 Location: NA East	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? Life favors low latency. It's not limited to video games. If your that serious about gaming move some where with better internet. lamebot wrote: What about client side hit detection? Works wonders with projectiles and shooting around walls isn't an issue in this game because nobody's playing duck in and out from behind the wall in this fast paced game. Hell, I'd trade for one or two BS deaths a night for just to be on even ground with someone at lower ping. A side effect being you'd need to be rigorous in your anti-cheat implementation to prevent abuse. From what i've seen hitscan already works off of client side hit detection. It's called Dead Reckoning and it's a terrible idea for many reasons, which is why no developer bases their game on it. Despite what wooser says, it's hack ability is quite notorious, but I don't know how a well moderated active f2p community will handle it, especially in a game with no first person spectating, and lots of projectile weapons. Those items make human detection harder for anything that isn't completely blatant, which people tend to neglect. Blatant hackers want you to know they hack. It's advertising. The problem is when you get someone good at hiding it, or making it look natural, but really good, so it's hard to tell. With anything but hit scan weapons, the discrepancies in the projectile make for bad dodging mechanics. It's favors the attacker, and not the target. Without the ability to dodge projectiles accurately, they lack that fundamental weakness and it effects balance. Imagine shooting invisible discs at people, or even better, invisible mortar projectiles. Also, hit scan at high latency needs to be led, so no, it's most certainly not coded that way. Basically, you can't change the speed of light. You have two measured distances to move information in real time back and forth through, and if one distance is longer, one of the players is going to get that information slower determined by the servers resolution of the info. There is no amount of code that can change that. I've played a bit on west coast servers (cross country) and haven't experienced the issues that Litego has documented in his videos. It was smooth, you just had to lead more. That said, I have fantastic routing, and a pretty fat pipe for cable. This game does have a form of lag compensation. Usually, I have to tail my targets with hitscan when using this kind of compensation on a low ping, which is basically what I do when I snipe. I shoot behind my targets. Most everything else I lead the trace. I really don't know why I even keep my cross hairs on. That said, the problem probably isn't lag compensation, but a combination of tic rate and packet size. With the outdoor nature of this game, and how this engine works, the packet size probably can't be reduced too greatly without sacrificing vision at a certain distance. UE works basically on a zoning principle that is best done on indoor maps, where you can't see the full width of a map, by not rendering what you can't see, and playing audio of only what's in range. With no ability to "zone" maps, you have all the map information being updated to you at most times. The larger your packet size is - referred to as netspeed in UT - the more choppy play with get when you start to drop and lose them. Bad routing is far worse for your gaming connection, because each hop is another opportunity for error in traffic, and it expands the distance to the server, so again, more time, and more margin for error. Most of the time though, even with lag compensation, the low pings are still at an advantage, since the game feels more natural to them, and not like some simulated version of real time. Even if compensation makes the "burden" less, it's still not equal. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:35 am

OP-Judas Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:44 am Posts: 195	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? Good reading So best/only way to solve this is to get more server locations? what is the problem with letting people host servers from home? _________________ I pwnd Jesus
Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:29 am

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? OP-Judas wrote: Good reading So best/only way to solve this is to get more server locations? what is the problem with letting people host servers from home? That's actually not an acceptable solution for me. My ping to most ISPs exceeds 70 ms, even when they're in my country, so the EU-Amsterdam server is acatually relatively good at around 80+ ms. The only thing that will solve it for me is better lag compensation. Either that, or fix the engine so you can make the projectiles move faster. EDIT: Wait, just thought of an idea. What if, depending on your ping (which you know by pressing tab), the tracers leave your gun x ms later, where x is your ping? Seems simple enough to implement. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:50 am

Litego Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:12 pm Posts: 5538 Location: North Cape - Norway	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? hvcterr wrote: Depends on the range. Start talking about some Raider-vs-Jugg stuff on Raindance, it it definitely enters into the equation. Does this not go into the category of shooting at noobs out of range as I mentioned? And can you really dodge those bullets? Or is it just about moving erratically? Regardless, I think that is the better evil in this case. When it is only noticeable in a few very specific situations, and even then only slightly, and it will make the game feel much smoother for everyone, and makes balancing easier, I think it's worth it. irimi wrote: But with projectiles, you have a problem. The guy shooting the weapon may see that his projectile fired straight and hit the guy on his screen, but everybody sees that his projectile hit dirt but the guy who's 3 feet away from the explosion dies anyway. You can bend invisible bullets without anybody seeing it, but you sure as hell can't bend a spinfusor without it looking completely wrong in the game. Again, why are you bringing up spinfusors? This is not a problem that would be noticeable with automatics, which is what this thread is about. Trilandian wrote: What if, depending on your ping (which you know by pressing tab), the tracers leave your gun x ms later, where x is your ping? Seems simple enough to implement. That's how most shooters deal with projectiles, actually that is how all other projectiles are dealt within this game. It is a better way of dealing with it because then the tracers would show you the server side of things and be correct. However I think they're not doing this to make the game look smoother and fool players who don't know that the lying tracers. _________________ Lag spike + lag compensation = lols
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:14 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? Litego wrote: Trilandian wrote: What if, depending on your ping (which you know by pressing tab), the tracers leave your gun x ms later, where x is your ping? Seems simple enough to implement. That's how most shooters deal with projectiles, actually that is how all other projectiles are dealt within this game. It is a better way of dealing with it because then the tracers would show you the server side of things and be correct. However I think they're not doing this to make the game look smoother and fool players who don't know that the lying tracers. Waaaaaaaait... you're saying they're already doing this for other weapons, and not doing this for the automatics... on purpose?!? That's outrageous! _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:29 pm

zaetrum Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:23 pm Posts: 13	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? High Ping b****** here. I love Tribes, but I am only able to play in the earlier hours of the morning as that when it seems most cellular Internet users in the area are asleep. On a good early morning, my ping will be around 175. Typically it's between 175-235, anything below that would be a blessing, but I have yet to see it any lower. Do automatics help me a lot? As with most things in the game, it depends. In close quarters on light armor it can be very effective if I get the drop on a target. If the target doesn't take off right away and isn't a heavy, I can usually take them down. The main thing I'd use autos for is flag defending. If I can see a capper inbound, I'll position myself on the opposite side of the flag, and the same angle and just fire away as they head directly in to the line of fire. I can usually get a good number of hits before they snag the flag and zoom past. If there are tech turrets nearby, or I go with the chaingun, it helps me immensely. I don't find much use for it elsewhere, I don't consider it a kill weapon, but more of a horribly maim one. With other weapons, in a one-vs-one scenario, if the target seems more skilled than a normal player I'm screwed, and will switch to auto and hope for backup. It would be awesome to have a <100 latency, but it's not going to happen for me. I still do alright myself, but I consider that my gaming experience makes up a bit for a higher ping. I still get pissed off though, when I hit a spot of lag in the middle of a heated battle and end up blowing myself up.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:38 pm

nasheruk Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:25 am Posts: 91	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? Lag compensation would ruin the feel of tribes as it would effect the whole game not just certain weapons, it would make it easier to hit people and harder to dodge. Also MOST people get a good ping, so they would be catering to the minority.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:50 pm

irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? nasheruk wrote: Lag compensation would ruin the feel of tribes as it would effect the whole game not just certain weapons, it would make it easier to hit people and harder to dodge. Also MOST people get a good ping, so they would be catering to the minority. I never understood why they didn't implement shields like in T1. Make it regen fast enough so that spinfusor spam doesn't break the threshold (unless you have like 5 people shooting at it), while mortars can still break through the shields and do damage.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:01 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Why do automatics reward low latency? nasheruk wrote: Lag compensation would ruin the feel of tribes as it would effect the whole game not just certain weapons, it would make it easier to hit people and harder to dodge. Also MOST people get a good ping, so they would be catering to the minority. GTFO _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:09 pm

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Why do automatics reward low latency?

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irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

hvcterr wrote:

irimi wrote:

Let's also not forget that it would royally screw with your movement/skiing. You could think that you just cleared a hill or something, but the game decides that you actually got hit and bounced into a rock 250ms ago. What then?

While that is a real thing, I'd prefer to classify it as a "client-side prediction" issue, which is a separate process from lag-compensating your weapon-shots Almost every online FPS does client-side prediction, or else all basic movements would be laggy. When an "error" occurs ("oh, s***, I just told the user he jumped upwards, but the platform disappeared below him first") they typically solve it by "smoothing", to minimize jerks/warps.

Reread my quote - and I apologize for not making it more clear in my terrible word choice. I was specifically referring to the knockback received from being hit by someone with a laggy spinfusor.

videoP wrote:

irimi wrote:

You don't seem to understand what lag compensation does.

I think almost no one in this thread does, especially the guy who thinks quake unlagged affects projectiles- it doesn't.

Well, since I'm on the top of the page and I actually bothered to skim the two papers regarding lag compensation (the first one's kind of a wash; the Valve paper was much more clear about what they were doing) -- the gist of it is this:

The problem that lag compensation tries to solve is one where the client side doesn't show the "true" state of the game at any given moment because of latency. On your game client, you see that someone is standing in front of you but they've already actually moved a little bit to the right. So if you tell your game client to shoot where you see the person, you're actually shooting thin air.

Without lag compensation, players have to lead their shots depending on their ping. In a game with hitscan weapons, this is extremely undesirable because the experience is that you're going to have to be aiming your weapon at where you think your enemy is going to be, rather than aiming at where he is on your screen. In other words, in a high ping situation in a hitscan game, what you see on the screen is that you're shooting at thin air and killing people. In Tribes, this is less noticeable because of the AOE nature of explosive weapons - so small differences in distance aren't a huge deal and are not as noticeable.

With lag compensation, what's on your screen when you fire a weapon is king, even if it's not where people are in reality according to the server. Essentially, lag compensation bends bullets - it says that if you aimed and hit someone on your screen exactly where you saw them, the server will count that as you hitting them. So the canonical example of this in a high ping situation is that someone with high ping will look like he's killing people around corners (this happens a lot in Counter-Strike) -- and the person with low ping will think that he went into safety, even though the high ping dude shot him ~200-300ms ago.

Note that in both cases, lag compensation does NOT affect movement. It very well leaves that the hell alone by saying you are where you are according to the server, and no amount of lag or ping will change or correct for your position. The only thing they compensate for is whether someone got hit. In the killing people around corners example, the guy who gets shot IS in fact behind a wall (that's where his corpse will end up too, IIRC).

And this is why lag compensation only works well for hitscan weapons. The game can get away with bending bullets and killing someone around corners because you don't actually see the bullets being fired, because there are no bullets being fired in the first place!

But with projectiles, you have a problem. The guy shooting the weapon may see that his projectile fired straight and hit the guy on his screen, but everybody sees that his projectile hit dirt but the guy who's 3 feet away from the explosion dies anyway. You can bend invisible bullets without anybody seeing it, but you sure as hell can't bend a spinfusor without it looking completely wrong in the game.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:56 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4888
Location: NA East

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

Life favors low latency. It's not limited to video games.

If your that serious about gaming move some where with better internet.

lamebot wrote:

What about client side hit detection? Works wonders with projectiles and shooting around walls isn't an issue in this game because nobody's playing duck in and out from behind the wall in this fast paced game. Hell, I'd trade for one or two BS deaths a night for just to be on even ground with someone at lower ping. A side effect being you'd need to be rigorous in your anti-cheat implementation to prevent abuse.

From what i've seen hitscan already works off of client side hit detection.

It's called Dead Reckoning and it's a terrible idea for many reasons, which is why no developer bases their game on it. Despite what wooser says, it's hack ability is quite notorious, but I don't know how a well moderated active f2p community will handle it, especially in a game with no first person spectating, and lots of projectile weapons. Those items make human detection harder for anything that isn't completely blatant, which people tend to neglect. Blatant hackers want you to know they hack. It's advertising. The problem is when you get someone good at hiding it, or making it look natural, but really good, so it's hard to tell.

With anything but hit scan weapons, the discrepancies in the projectile make for bad dodging mechanics. It's favors the attacker, and not the target. Without the ability to dodge projectiles accurately, they lack that fundamental weakness and it effects balance. Imagine shooting invisible discs at people, or even better, invisible mortar projectiles.

Also, hit scan at high latency needs to be led, so no, it's most certainly not coded that way.

Basically, you can't change the speed of light. You have two measured distances to move information in real time back and forth through, and if one distance is longer, one of the players is going to get that information slower determined by the servers resolution of the info. There is no amount of code that can change that. I've played a bit on west coast servers (cross country) and haven't experienced the issues that Litego has documented in his videos. It was smooth, you just had to lead more. That said, I have fantastic routing, and a pretty fat pipe for cable.

This game does have a form of lag compensation. Usually, I have to tail my targets with hitscan when using this kind of compensation on a low ping, which is basically what I do when I snipe. I shoot behind my targets. Most everything else I lead the trace. I really don't know why I even keep my cross hairs on.

That said, the problem probably isn't lag compensation, but a combination of tic rate and packet size. With the outdoor nature of this game, and how this engine works, the packet size probably can't be reduced too greatly without sacrificing vision at a certain distance. UE works basically on a zoning principle that is best done on indoor maps, where you can't see the full width of a map, by not rendering what you can't see, and playing audio of only what's in range.

With no ability to "zone" maps, you have all the map information being updated to you at most times. The larger your packet size is - referred to as netspeed in UT - the more choppy play with get when you start to drop and lose them. Bad routing is far worse for your gaming connection, because each hop is another opportunity for error in traffic, and it expands the distance to the server, so again, more time, and more margin for error.

Most of the time though, even with lag compensation, the low pings are still at an advantage, since the game feels more natural to them, and not like some simulated version of real time. Even if compensation makes the "burden" less, it's still not equal.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:35 am

OP-Judas

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 195

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

Good reading

So best/only way to solve this is to get more server locations?

what is the problem with letting people host servers from home?

_________________
I pwnd Jesus

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:29 am

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

OP-Judas wrote:

Good reading

So best/only way to solve this is to get more server locations?

what is the problem with letting people host servers from home?

That's actually not an acceptable solution for me.

My ping to most ISPs exceeds 70 ms, even when they're in my country, so the EU-Amsterdam server is acatually relatively good at around 80+ ms.

The only thing that will solve it for me is better lag compensation.

Either that, or fix the engine so you can make the projectiles move faster.

EDIT: Wait, just thought of an idea. What if, depending on your ping (which you know by pressing tab), the tracers leave your gun x ms later, where x is your ping?
Seems simple enough to implement.

_________________
Thump... BOOM
---
My Contributions
Intelligent Turret Placement
Management tools
---
Important Topics
Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF
Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT
Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT
Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:50 am

Litego

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:12 pm
Posts: 5538
Location: North Cape - Norway

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

hvcterr wrote:

Depends on the range. Start talking about some Raider-vs-Jugg stuff on Raindance, it it definitely enters into the equation.

Does this not go into the category of shooting at noobs out of range as I mentioned? And can you really dodge those bullets? Or is it just about moving erratically? Regardless, I think that is the better evil in this case. When it is only noticeable in a few very specific situations, and even then only slightly, and it will make the game feel much smoother for everyone, and makes balancing easier, I think it's worth it.

irimi wrote:

But with projectiles, you have a problem. The guy shooting the weapon may see that his projectile fired straight and hit the guy on his screen, but everybody sees that his projectile hit dirt but the guy who's 3 feet away from the explosion dies anyway. You can bend invisible bullets without anybody seeing it, but you sure as hell can't bend a spinfusor without it looking completely wrong in the game.

Again, why are you bringing up spinfusors? This is not a problem that would be noticeable with automatics, which is what this thread is about.

Trilandian wrote:

What if, depending on your ping (which you know by pressing tab), the tracers leave your gun x ms later, where x is your ping?
Seems simple enough to implement.

That's how most shooters deal with projectiles, actually that is how all other projectiles are dealt within this game. It is a better way of dealing with it because then the tracers would show you the server side of things and be correct. However I think they're not doing this to make the game look smoother and fool players who don't know that the lying tracers.

_________________
Lag spike + lag compensation = lols

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:14 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

Litego wrote:

Trilandian wrote:

What if, depending on your ping (which you know by pressing tab), the tracers leave your gun x ms later, where x is your ping?
Seems simple enough to implement.

Waaaaaaaait... you're saying they're already doing this for other weapons, and not doing this for the automatics... on purpose?!?

That's outrageous! :evil:

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:29 pm

zaetrum

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:23 pm
Posts: 13

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

High Ping b****** here. I love Tribes, but I am only able to play in the earlier hours of the morning as that when it seems most cellular Internet users in the area are asleep. On a good early morning, my ping will be around 175. Typically it's between 175-235, anything below that would be a blessing, but I have yet to see it any lower.

Do automatics help me a lot? As with most things in the game, it depends. In close quarters on light armor it can be very effective if I get the drop on a target. If the target doesn't take off right away and isn't a heavy, I can usually take them down. The main thing I'd use autos for is flag defending. If I can see a capper inbound, I'll position myself on the opposite side of the flag, and the same angle and just fire away as they head directly in to the line of fire. I can usually get a good number of hits before they snag the flag and zoom past. If there are tech turrets nearby, or I go with the chaingun, it helps me immensely. I don't find much use for it elsewhere, I don't consider it a kill weapon, but more of a horribly maim one.

With other weapons, in a one-vs-one scenario, if the target seems more skilled than a normal player I'm screwed, and will switch to auto and hope for backup. It would be awesome to have a <100 latency, but it's not going to happen for me. I still do alright myself, but I consider that my gaming experience makes up a bit for a higher ping.

I still get pissed off though, when I hit a spot of lag in the middle of a heated battle and end up blowing myself up.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:38 pm

nasheruk

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:25 am
Posts: 91

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

Lag compensation would ruin the feel of tribes as it would effect the whole game not just certain weapons, it would make it easier to hit people and harder to dodge. Also MOST people get a good ping, so they would be catering to the minority.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:50 pm

irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

nasheruk wrote:

I never understood why they didn't implement shields like in T1. Make it regen fast enough so that spinfusor spam doesn't break the threshold (unless you have like 5 people shooting at it), while mortars can still break through the shields and do damage.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:01 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Why do automatics reward low latency?

nasheruk wrote:

GTFO

Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:09 pm

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Why do automatics reward low latency?