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New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.
Author	Message
hillsgeo Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:28 pm Posts: 437	New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. Is there some sort of justification where the fractal grenade was nerfed so hard that it does 0-3 damage versus the generator and the new cluster grenade appears (from the video footage) to do a, pardon my French, metric s*** ton of damage to the generator (and everything else)? I still don't get why the fractal does no damage versus the generator. 410 damage per beam vs the gen? Yeah, probably too much. 0-3 dmg per beam? Why? These are essentially the same concept except one is duration (fractal) vs upfront damage (cluster). Why the huge disparity between the two?
Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:08 pm

haque Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:53 am Posts: 383	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. They nerfed it a while back as a Brute could autospam those in a Gen room and kill it in less than 4 seconds. ....But yeah, this new Raider nade really fuucks things up HARD and trashes the original reason of "too OP, needs nerf". There is literally NO reason to play Brute now, pretty pathetic. _________________ patchnotes wrote: Voicepacks are now available to purchase.
Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Nomadologue Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:32 pm Posts: 45	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. hillsgeo wrote: Is there some sort of justification where the fractal grenade was nerfed so hard that it does 0-3 damage versus the generator and the new cluster grenade appears (from the video footage) to do a, pardon my French, metric s*** ton of damage to the generator (and everything else)? I still don't get why the fractal does no damage versus the generator. 410 damage per beam vs the gen? Yeah, probably too much. 0-3 dmg per beam? Why? These are essentially the same concept except one is duration (fractal) vs upfront damage (cluster). Why the huge disparity between the two? Probably because the cluster grenade less reliably covers a large AoE and does so for a significantly reduced duration. Even though I am a Raider player, I am pretty miffed that Hi-Rez opted to add content for the Raider rather than add some for the Brute and do some tweaking there. It's way more necessary. The Raider is fine (and a bit OP, in fact). Still, I think the Cluster Grenade and Fractal are disanalogous enough to justify a difference in their capacity to destroy gens (even if the difference is too severe at the moment). We'll have to wait for the patch to be sure, though.
Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:24 pm

starlinvf Beta Tester Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am Posts: 1478	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. But how important is area denial when have a device thats basically a hand MIRV. I haven't seen the damage values for it yet, but if a cluster can narc a gen in a single throw, what good is the Sticky at this point? _________________ "Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."
Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:33 pm

hillsgeo Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:28 pm Posts: 437	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. I dunno, I guess I just don't understand why every other grenade in the game does full damage versus the generator and the fractal essentially does 0 dmg. Why not simply nerf it to the point of doing the same overall damage as other grenades to the generator, instead of gutting any use against it?
Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:44 pm

blujay Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:58 am Posts: 136 Steam Gamer Name: nobody	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. The video makes the cluster grenade look quite overpowered, against both players and generators. I thought the EMP grenade, by its nature, was supposed to be better than others at destroying generators, et al. This cluster grenade will clearly be a straight upgrade to the EMP grenade for all purposes. So much for sidegrades. But I think we are seeing the future of the updates: new weapons will be overpowered to entice people to buy them so they can dominate those who don't have them. Then when the next update is released, they'll be nerfed to re-"balance" the game--until the next new weapons come out. This is basically how the TF2 updates have gone: new guns are OP, people buy them, other people complain, then they are nerfed and made available via crafting and drops. I think it's simple economics: first you charge a higher rate, then those who are willing to pay it do so, then you make it worth less and charge less, then those who are willing to pay less do so. But it's not good for gameplay, and it's relatively dishonest.
Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:35 pm

blacklhawk170 Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:43 pm Posts: 47	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. blujay wrote: The video makes the cluster grenade look quite overpowered, against both players and generators. I thought the EMP grenade, by its nature, was supposed to be better than others at destroying generators, et al. This cluster grenade will clearly be a straight upgrade to the EMP grenade for all purposes. So much for sidegrades. But I think we are seeing the future of the updates: new weapons will be overpowered to entice people to buy them so they can dominate those who don't have them. Then when the next update is released, they'll be nerfed to re-"balance" the game--until the next new weapons come out. This is basically how the TF2 updates have gone: new guns are OP, people buy them, other people complain, then they are nerfed and made available via crafting and drops. I think it's simple economics: first you charge a higher rate, then those who are willing to pay it do so, then you make it worth less and charge less, then those who are willing to pay less do so. But it's not good for gameplay, and it's relatively dishonest. I sincerely hope this isn't the case, but i'm worried that this is the way things are gonna be. _________________ If you post it they will come
Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:44 pm

Tamburlaine Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am Posts: 1859	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. Hah. I'd die of god d*** laughter if the cluster replaces the EMP as the raider's "make things go boom" grenade and the EMP is modified to something resembling the suggestions in my EMP thread (see: second link in signature). In which case, my apologies to the brute fraternity. I may have been partly responsible for this patch. But that won't matter, because I'll have laughed so hard my lungs came out of my mouth. _________________ oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer
Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:49 pm

wooser Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm Posts: 695	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. If it deals more damage than the light sticky then it's gonna need a nerf. Or the light sticky is gonna need a buff, into being a heavy sticky. Either one. Either way, blujay is right.
Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:50 pm

Frostiken Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am Posts: 1045	Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage. This game is going to be unplayable for the next month or so.
Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:52 pm

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New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

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hillsgeo

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:28 pm
Posts: 437

New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

Is there some sort of justification where the fractal grenade was nerfed so hard that it does 0-3 damage versus the generator and the new cluster grenade appears (from the video footage) to do a, pardon my French, metric s*** ton of damage to the generator (and everything else)?

I still don't get why the fractal does no damage versus the generator. 410 damage per beam vs the gen? Yeah, probably too much. 0-3 dmg per beam? Why?

These are essentially the same concept except one is duration (fractal) vs upfront damage (cluster). Why the huge disparity between the two?

Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:08 pm

haque

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:53 am
Posts: 383

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

They nerfed it a while back as a Brute could autospam those in a Gen room and kill it in less than 4 seconds.

....But yeah, this new Raider nade really fuucks things up HARD and trashes the original reason of "too OP, needs nerf". There is literally NO reason to play Brute now, pretty pathetic.

_________________

patchnotes wrote:

Voicepacks are now available to purchase.

Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Nomadologue

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:32 pm
Posts: 45

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

hillsgeo wrote:

Probably because the cluster grenade less reliably covers a large AoE and does so for a significantly reduced duration.

Even though I am a Raider player, I am pretty miffed that Hi-Rez opted to add content for the Raider rather than add some for the Brute and do some tweaking there. It's way more necessary. The Raider is fine (and a bit OP, in fact).

Still, I think the Cluster Grenade and Fractal are disanalogous enough to justify a difference in their capacity to destroy gens (even if the difference is too severe at the moment). We'll have to wait for the patch to be sure, though.

Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:24 pm

starlinvf

Beta Tester

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am
Posts: 1478

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

But how important is area denial when have a device thats basically a hand MIRV. I haven't seen the damage values for it yet, but if a cluster can narc a gen in a single throw, what good is the Sticky at this point?

_________________
"Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."

Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:33 pm

hillsgeo

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:28 pm
Posts: 437

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

I dunno, I guess I just don't understand why every other grenade in the game does full damage versus the generator and the fractal essentially does 0 dmg. Why not simply nerf it to the point of doing the same overall damage as other grenades to the generator, instead of gutting any use against it?

Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:44 pm

blujay

Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:58 am
Posts: 136
Steam Gamer Name: nobody

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

The video makes the cluster grenade look quite overpowered, against both players and generators. I thought the EMP grenade, by its nature, was supposed to be better than others at destroying generators, et al. This cluster grenade will clearly be a straight upgrade to the EMP grenade for all purposes. So much for sidegrades.

But I think we are seeing the future of the updates: new weapons will be overpowered to entice people to buy them so they can dominate those who don't have them. Then when the next update is released, they'll be nerfed to re-"balance" the game--until the next new weapons come out.

This is basically how the TF2 updates have gone: new guns are OP, people buy them, other people complain, then they are nerfed and made available via crafting and drops. I think it's simple economics: first you charge a higher rate, then those who are willing to pay it do so, then you make it worth less and charge less, then those who are willing to pay less do so. But it's not good for gameplay, and it's relatively dishonest.

Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:35 pm

blacklhawk170

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:43 pm
Posts: 47

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

blujay wrote:

I sincerely hope this isn't the case, but i'm worried that this is the way things are gonna be.

_________________
If you post it they will come

Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:44 pm

Tamburlaine

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am
Posts: 1859

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

Hah.

I'd die of god d*** laughter if the cluster replaces the EMP as the raider's "make things go boom" grenade and the EMP is modified to something resembling the suggestions in my EMP thread (see: second link in signature).

In which case, my apologies to the brute fraternity. I may have been partly responsible for this patch. But that won't matter, because I'll have laughed so hard my lungs came out of my mouth.

_________________
oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer

Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:49 pm

wooser

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 695

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

If it deals more damage than the light sticky then it's gonna need a nerf. Or the light sticky is gonna need a buff, into being a heavy sticky. Either one.

Either way, blujay is right.

Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:50 pm

Frostiken

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am
Posts: 1045

Re: New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.

This game is going to be unplayable for the next month or so.

Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:52 pm

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New Cluster Grenade vs Fractal RE: Gen Damage.