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About pubs, parties and friends.
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hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. Pumpelche wrote: And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder. Give me more technical detail about what you're talking about. The only "farm" you need is already around, in the form of existing game servers. The part about taking a set of parties, sorting them by size, and pairing them off... Well, that's pretty d*** simple. You could handle it all on a single machine. By the time a single machine isn't enough, you'll have enough input data that you can just shard it with minimal impact on the likelihood of finding suitable matches. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:09 am

MrLordcaptain Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:42 pm Posts: 654	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. hvcterr wrote: Creating ad-hoc groups ("parties") would be nice, but even nicer would be if the match-making system could balance a party of N people with another party around the same size, and then put them into the same server on opposite teams. That way your group doesn't get scattered. +1 matchmaking we need _________________ Remove hitscan from pistols and shotguns
Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:16 am

Diknak Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 pm Posts: 553	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. Yes, this MUST happen for clans/tribes to be supported properly. _________________ do \|\| !do; try; #Error: Command try not found.
Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:36 am

Charognard Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:52 am Posts: 1	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. +1 need to play with our clanmates... If you don t want kill the matchmaking, a system like WoT would be fine. Let players make a 3/4/5 mate group
Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:37 am

Pumpelche Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:22 am Posts: 1894 Location: Switzerland Steam Gamer Name: Pumpelche	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. Nevenor wrote: Pumpelche wrote: And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder. I think it's not the developers job to offer a solution so that some 30+ rankers don't pile up in pubs playing against avg rank 12s. A littlebit of decency and common sence should exist in the mind of people who are able to configure a FOV setting. And for the sake of happy friends parties: get your own server/pc running and host games by yourself. Note that I was talking only about a way to stay together while playing. Matchmaking WOULD be cool, and with quickjoin (play now button, whatever) it is not necessary, but wasting 10+ minutes every match just to stay together feels wrong. I came here to play the game, not watch the player count. And please also note that I mentioned "reasonable" quantity of players that will be able to group up: no 15ppl group, no. Just a few mates together. I think community will only benefit from this. DogmeatX wrote: For larger groups that is a fair comment but for small groups 2-3-4 it would be nice to have something; they will be trying to get on same side anyway. Precisely. This whole thread is about "we are teaming up anyway. why do we have to waste time on this instead of playing?" They'd have to set a limit, how to define it? The fifth 'wheel' on the wagon will allways be the left one. I think that if you want to play together, it's not unfair that you're speed klicking the team, I also do this all the time when I want to join the pre-loser-team. And I don't know, but isn't it the same funny to play actually against your friends and not allways with them? :) _________________ «LONG WAY» Juggernaut Montage (more Gameplay, less Killshots) NEW How God imagined Juggernauts should be played..
Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:53 am

Pumpelche Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:22 am Posts: 1894 Location: Switzerland Steam Gamer Name: Pumpelche	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. hvcterr wrote: Pumpelche wrote: And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder. Give me more technical detail about what you're talking about. The only "farm" you need is already around, in the form of existing game servers. The part about taking a set of parties, sorting them by size, and pairing them off... Well, that's pretty d*** simple. You could handle it all on a single machine. By the time a single machine isn't enough, you'll have enough input data that you can just shard it with minimal impact on the likelihood of finding suitable matches. Agree. But look at the potential: A server has already 13 vs 13 filled, a buddy-group of 4 would not be placeable anymore. A group of 2 or 3 not aswell coz you can't create through this mechanic a 13 vs 15/16 team stack - it's unfair. And to instant switch a player who has already chosen his team or is maybe even already playing his role into the other team so that buddies are not split up is also an unfair and discriminating situation. So the only practical and fair mechanic is to check if two buddy-groups of equal size or 1-ppl difference size are trying to join the mechanic has to find a game where there is enough place. But because this might not allways happen, the server has to start a new game instance to fill in such teams. This again could lead into situations where two buddy-groups of let's say 7 people each play against each other and the game might not fill. A boring situation for non-comp players who rather want to wrestle with the mass than dedicated spots. That is why I stated this might need a huge investment hardware side to be able to offer fair games to everyone, also the lonely wolfes without buddy-groups. _________________ «LONG WAY» Juggernaut Montage (more Gameplay, less Killshots) NEW How God imagined Juggernauts should be played..
Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:59 am

MasterBaits Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:00 pm Posts: 69	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. +1 _________________ Who the hell’s interrupting my Kung Fu?!
Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:03 am

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. Pumpelche wrote: Agree. But look at the potential: A server has already 13 vs 13 filled, a buddy-group of 4 would not be placeable anymore. So what? AFAIK HiRez already has a "cloud" of servers to pick from. It's not unusual for a busy server is spun down, with all its inhabitants redirected to other servers to top them off. A 4v4 pairing might not fit on a server without 8 slots left, but there are probably plenty of other servers available, or even a completely empty server that can be spin up to deal with the load. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:57 pm

Nevenor Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:20 pm Posts: 9	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. Pumpelche wrote: They'd have to set a limit, how to define it? The fifth 'wheel' on the wagon will allways be the left one. I think that if you want to play together, it's not unfair that you're speed klicking the team, I also do this all the time when I want to join the pre-loser-team. And I don't know, but isn't it the same funny to play actually against your friends and not allways with them? If I want to play AGAINST my friends - I can do it in 1-2 clicks. If I want to play WITH them - I have to waste time speedclicking right team. Isn't this a discrimination? Why do you ever add referral and friend systems if you want people to play solo? I have nothing to say about technical problems with creating this "parties" or even matchmaking, I'm not a gamedev. When I were able to speedclick team (when I was playing only with 1 my friend) - I were playing, not creating this topic. How do you think it is ever possible to join same team for 3-4 people without wasting 10-20 minutes for nothing? Charognard wrote: +1 need to play with our clanmates... If you don t want kill the matchmaking, a system like WoT would be fine. Let players make a 3/4/5 mate group Yes. This is absolutely I was talking about. (btw in World of Tanks you cannot create group with more than 2 people without purchasing a premium acc. Though T:A does not have premium accounts, I believe it is technically possible to provide such a service. And that's where you take money for matchmaking servers etc.)
Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:15 pm

irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: About pubs, parties and friends. hvcterr wrote: Pumpelche wrote: And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder. Give me more technical detail about what you're talking about. The only "farm" you need is already around, in the form of existing game servers. The part about taking a set of parties, sorting them by size, and pairing them off... Well, that's pretty d*** simple. You could handle it all on a single machine. By the time a single machine isn't enough, you'll have enough input data that you can just shard it with minimal impact on the likelihood of finding suitable matches. He's not talking about machines to do the matchmaking, but machines to handle/host new games. Nobody quite knows what HR's server capacity is and how much it's being stretched atm. It's worth noting that the existing game servers don't really accomodate for creating new game instances for parties... and so if you were to start a new server every time you wanted to match a bunch of people, it'd be pretty hard to do so. The thing that's fundamentally different about T:A from games that use traditional team-matchmaking is the fact that anybody can join in the middle of a match. This makes the problem of doing matchmaking more difficult unless you completely segregate non-MM servers from MM servers... which would, again, require an increase in servers to accomodate for this.
Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:28 pm

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About pubs, parties and friends.

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hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

Pumpelche wrote:

And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder.

Give me more technical detail about what you're talking about. The only "farm" you need is already around, in the form of existing game servers.

The part about taking a set of parties, sorting them by size, and pairing them off... Well, that's pretty d*** simple. You could handle it all on a single machine. By the time a single machine isn't enough, you'll have enough input data that you can just shard it with minimal impact on the likelihood of finding suitable matches.

_________________
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Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:09 am

MrLordcaptain

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 654

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

hvcterr wrote:

Creating ad-hoc groups ("parties") would be nice, but even nicer would be if the match-making system could balance a party of N people with another party around the same size, and then put them into the same server on opposite teams.

That way your group doesn't get scattered.

+1 matchmaking we need

_________________
Remove hitscan from pistols and shotguns

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:16 am

Diknak

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 553

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

Yes, this MUST happen for clans/tribes to be supported properly.

_________________
do || !do;
try;
#Error: Command try not found.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:36 am

Charognard

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 1

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

+1 need to play with our clanmates... If you don t want kill the matchmaking, a system like WoT would be fine. Let players make a 3/4/5 mate group

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:37 am

Pumpelche

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:22 am
Posts: 1894
Location: Switzerland
Steam Gamer Name: Pumpelche

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

Nevenor wrote:

Pumpelche wrote:

And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder.

I think it's not the developers job to offer a solution so that some 30+ rankers don't pile up in pubs playing against avg rank 12s. A littlebit of decency and common sence should exist in the mind of people who are able to configure a FOV setting.

And for the sake of happy friends parties: get your own server/pc running and host games by yourself.

Note that I was talking only about a way to stay together while playing. Matchmaking WOULD be cool, and with quickjoin (play now button, whatever) it is not necessary, but wasting 10+ minutes every match just to stay together feels wrong. I came here to play the game, not watch the player count.
And please also note that I mentioned "reasonable" quantity of players that will be able to group up: no 15ppl group, no. Just a few mates together. I think community will only benefit from this.

DogmeatX wrote:

For larger groups that is a fair comment but for small groups 2-3-4 it would be nice to have something; they will be trying to get on same side anyway.

Precisely. This whole thread is about "we are teaming up anyway. why do we have to waste time on this instead of playing?"

They'd have to set a limit, how to define it? The fifth 'wheel' on the wagon will allways be the left one. I think that if you want to play together, it's not unfair that you're speed klicking the team, I also do this all the time when I want to join the pre-loser-team.

And I don't know, but isn't it the same funny to play actually against your friends and not allways with them? :)

_________________
«LONG WAY» Juggernaut Montage (more Gameplay, less Killshots) *NEW*

How God imagined Juggernauts should be played..

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:53 am

Pumpelche

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:22 am
Posts: 1894
Location: Switzerland
Steam Gamer Name: Pumpelche

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

hvcterr wrote:

Pumpelche wrote:

And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder.

Agree. But look at the potential:

A server has already 13 vs 13 filled, a buddy-group of 4 would not be placeable anymore. A group of 2 or 3 not aswell coz you can't create through this mechanic a 13 vs 15/16 team stack - it's unfair. And to instant switch a player who has already chosen his team or is maybe even already playing his role into the other team so that buddies are not split up is also an unfair and discriminating situation.

So the only practical and fair mechanic is to check if two buddy-groups of equal size or 1-ppl difference size are trying to join the mechanic has to find a game where there is enough place. But because this might not allways happen, the server has to start a new game instance to fill in such teams. This again could lead into situations where two buddy-groups of let's say 7 people each play against each other and the game might not fill. A boring situation for non-comp players who rather want to wrestle with the mass than dedicated spots.

That is why I stated this might need a huge investment hardware side to be able to offer fair games to everyone, also the lonely wolfes without buddy-groups.

_________________
«LONG WAY» Juggernaut Montage (more Gameplay, less Killshots) *NEW*

How God imagined Juggernauts should be played..

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:59 am

MasterBaits

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:00 pm
Posts: 69

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

_________________
Who the hell’s interrupting my Kung Fu?!

Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:03 am

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

Pumpelche wrote:

Agree. But look at the potential:

A server has already 13 vs 13 filled, a buddy-group of 4 would not be placeable anymore.

So what? AFAIK HiRez already has a "cloud" of servers to pick from. It's not unusual for a busy server is spun down, with all its inhabitants redirected to other servers to top them off. A 4v4 pairing might not fit on a server without 8 slots left, but there are probably plenty of other servers available, or even a completely empty server that can be spin up to deal with the load.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:57 pm

Nevenor

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:20 pm
Posts: 9

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

Pumpelche wrote:

If I want to play AGAINST my friends - I can do it in 1-2 clicks. If I want to play WITH them - I have to waste time speedclicking right team. Isn't this a discrimination? Why do you ever add referral and friend systems if you want people to play solo?

I have nothing to say about technical problems with creating this "parties" or even matchmaking, I'm not a gamedev.

When I were able to speedclick team (when I was playing only with 1 my friend) - I were playing, not creating this topic. How do you think it is ever possible to join same team for 3-4 people without wasting 10-20 minutes for nothing?

Charognard wrote:

+1 need to play with our clanmates... If you don t want kill the matchmaking, a system like WoT would be fine. Let players make a 3/4/5 mate group

Yes. This is absolutely I was talking about. (btw in World of Tanks you cannot create group with more than 2 people without purchasing a premium acc. Though T:A does not have premium accounts, I believe it is technically possible to provide such a service. And that's where you take money for matchmaking servers etc.)

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:15 pm

irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: About pubs, parties and friends.

hvcterr wrote:

Pumpelche wrote:

And who finances the server farm needed to offer for each group of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 a free match-instance for them to play on? Just wonder.

He's not talking about machines to do the matchmaking, but machines to handle/host new games.

Nobody quite knows what HR's server capacity is and how much it's being stretched atm. It's worth noting that the existing game servers don't really accomodate for creating new game instances for parties... and so if you were to start a new server every time you wanted to match a bunch of people, it'd be pretty hard to do so.

The thing that's fundamentally different about T:A from games that use traditional team-matchmaking is the fact that anybody can join in the middle of a match. This makes the problem of doing matchmaking more difficult unless you completely segregate non-MM servers from MM servers... which would, again, require an increase in servers to accomodate for this.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:28 pm

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