Tribes:Ascend Forums

FAQ • Login • Register

CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!
Author	Message
kjbaraja Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:24 pm Posts: 39	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! I have a long history of competitive play in Tribes2, and while I haven't played competitively in Ascend yet, I've watched almost every VoD since they starting being produced. That said, here is my take the current strategy we see in every single game. The strategy is to clear the flag stand for a capper that is on his 250-300 kph route. If he gets away, maybe a sniper will hit him, or maybe a light will be nicely positioned to get some chain fire/nitron on him. Most often, the capper is gone and the other team needs to get in there for an e-grab. Then send a solo PTH to nitron or a small team to kill the flag-holder, while trying to protect your own flag-holder. There we go. That's it. Every time. Now there's obviously some unique ways to go about executing the above gameplan, but I can't be the only one that sees a clear lack of creativity in these games. When I watch VoDs I feel like I'm watching the same game every time, the only difference being that the players have different skill levels. I miss the cool strategies in Tribes 2. Remember when we'd see a shrike escort a bomber and transport while a team tried to execute a full frontal assault, and the whole time you had a guy with an invis pack waiting to grab the flag and jump in his grav cycle? That was cool. Now I'm not suggesting that Tribes: Ascend include bombers and transports and try to mimic T2. This is a different game, I get it. And I like this new game. But there is a distinct lack of fun strategies to execute. There are way too many reasons responsible to list off here. But the result is clear: the game is pretty repetitive. You got the same old cappers doing the same old routes, and the other team doing the same old thing to get the flag back. I can't be the only one getting bored by this? And when you see a team use 3-5 PTHS on their 8-person team, and the same old strategy I described above, you have to wonder what's going on, no? _________________ Ign: Maniak
Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:13 pm

Eldiran Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm Posts: 256	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! Chargolith wrote: Here's my take on this. If a flag is being defended by 5 people, no one person should be able to pull off a flag grab. Yet, I've seen it done many times. If one guy was defending the flag from 5 attackers. He will lose every time. I'm not saying PTH is overpowered, as much as, defense needs a tweek. Currently, defense relies heavily on chasers. Some maps work fine for defense, but others make HOF pointless. If most of the 5 defenders use deployables, this can be true. With forcefields, mines, and turrets, the flagstand can get pretty much impregnable. Except maybe on Katabatic.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:21 pm

YogaSiddhi Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:17 pm Posts: 5	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! Disagree with OP completely, post your youtube videos of you capturing the flag non stop all the time with no problems from any other class and then ill believe you Video or it didnt happen I also think your forgetting this is a level based and microtransaction game, guaranteed deployables and defenses will get upgraded in the future while pathfinders will remain relatively the same speed and survivability
Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:03 pm

fubbymaster Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:21 pm Posts: 337	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! I dont want to play path, but others on my team often cant cap/chase, so i must. IDK why all those other people play pth... Maybe to llama the flag...
Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:23 pm

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! Chargolith wrote: Here's my take on this. If a flag is being defended by 5 people, no one person should be able to pull off a flag grab. Yet, I've seen it done many times. If one guy was defending the flag from 5 attackers. He will lose every time. I'm not saying PTH is overpowered, as much as, defense needs a tweek. Currently, defense relies heavily on chasers. Some maps work fine for defense, but others make HOF pointless. the thing is most of the time 3 of those 5 defenders are techs off jacking into a turret with their repair guns out. so it's really a 2 on 1. and if one guy sees you and the other that's 1 0n 1. better than 50/50 offs of getting away since you are attacking and have an advantage of preparation if all 5 are paying attention you very rarely get out alive _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:31 pm

Entropy Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am Posts: 292 Steam Gamer Name: sianmink	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! aren't there only 1 or 2 approaches to the flag for a high speed capper on most maps?. Camp the approach or escape route instead of the flag stand. Set up a miniturret or claymore on a hill you know the capper needs to hit, park as a sentinel on the approach instead of the flag, where the capper is on a predictable path. Put prism mines or jackal rounds on an approach slope and laugh as the capper explodes. All DMBs should spare a mine for the exfil route... not all flag defense has to be at the stand where it's easily countered.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Chargolith Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:40 pm Posts: 43	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! Entropy wrote: aren't there only 1 or 2 approaches to the flag for a high speed capper on most maps?. Camp the approach or escape route instead of the flag stand. Set up a miniturret or claymore on a hill you know the capper needs to hit, park as a sentinel on the approach instead of the flag, where the capper is on a predictable path. Put prism mines or jackal rounds on an approach slope and laugh as the capper explodes. All DMBs should spare a mine for the exfil route... not all flag defense has to be at the stand where it's easily countered. Well, I wouldn't say 1 or 2 approaches. I can think of only one that has only two approaches, and that's Raindance. The problem with raindance, and katabatic for that matter, is it's comically easy to bombard from any number of positions. Turrets, shields, and mines are almost pointless on those maps. Then, to top it off, if you're the HOF and get knocked off either one of those platforms, it takes a lot of energy to get back up on them.
Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:21 am

disci Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:48 pm Posts: 1025 Location: Winland	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! kjbaraja wrote: I have a long history of competitive play in Tribes2, and while I haven't played competitively in Ascend yet, I've watched almost every VoD since they starting being produced. That said, here is my take the current strategy we see in every single game. The strategy is to clear the flag stand for a capper that is on his 250-300 kph route. If he gets away, maybe a sniper will hit him, or maybe a light will be nicely positioned to get some chain fire/nitron on him. Most often, the capper is gone and the other team needs to get in there for an e-grab. Then send a solo PTH to nitron or a small team to kill the flag-holder, while trying to protect your own flag-holder. There we go. That's it. Every time. Now there's obviously some unique ways to go about executing the above gameplan, but I can't be the only one that sees a clear lack of creativity in these games. When I watch VoDs I feel like I'm watching the same game every time, the only difference being that the players have different skill levels. I miss the cool strategies in Tribes 2. Remember when we'd see a shrike escort a bomber and transport while a team tried to execute a full frontal assault, and the whole time you had a guy with an invis pack waiting to grab the flag and jump in his grav cycle? That was cool. Now I'm not suggesting that Tribes: Ascend include bombers and transports and try to mimic T2. This is a different game, I get it. And I like this new game. But there is a distinct lack of fun strategies to execute. There are way too many reasons responsible to list off here. But the result is clear: the game is pretty repetitive. You got the same old cappers doing the same old routes, and the other team doing the same old thing to get the flag back. I can't be the only one getting bored by this? And when you see a team use 3-5 PTHS on their 8-person team, and the same old strategy I described above, you have to wonder what's going on, no? You need to get involved to the comp community then. There are lots of strategy which depends on how your opponent is playing. It might not be enough for some peeps in here but it definately isn't as bad as people, who often are not even playing comp, make it sound like.
Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:07 am

Entropy Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am Posts: 292 Steam Gamer Name: sianmink	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! Chargolith wrote: The problem with raindance, and katabatic for that matter, is it's comically easy to bombard from any number of positions.. Which is why I suggest defending the approaches instead of/in addition to the flagstand. It takes a greater attacker effort to clear the left and right high speed approaches as well. I've caught many a capper setting up on the big hill before the final flag run with a well-place turret or burst of SMG fire. Rarely get kills, mind, but their run is totally disrupted, and the flagstand defenders have an easier time dealing with just the llamas.
Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:24 pm

pro-logic Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:01 pm Posts: 437	Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue! I've seen pathfinders call in an orbital strike while on their route, and fly through the orbital explosions to claim the flag.... effectively countering most of the defenders and deployables around the flag stand.
Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by

CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

Author

Message

kjbaraja

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:24 pm
Posts: 39

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

I have a long history of competitive play in Tribes2, and while I haven't played competitively in Ascend yet, I've watched almost every VoD since they starting being produced. That said, here is my take the current strategy we see in every single game.

The strategy is to clear the flag stand for a capper that is on his 250-300 kph route. If he gets away, maybe a sniper will hit him, or maybe a light will be nicely positioned to get some chain fire/nitron on him. Most often, the capper is gone and the other team needs to get in there for an e-grab. Then send a solo PTH to nitron or a small team to kill the flag-holder, while trying to protect your own flag-holder. There we go. That's it. Every time.

Now there's obviously some unique ways to go about executing the above gameplan, but I can't be the only one that sees a clear lack of creativity in these games. When I watch VoDs I feel like I'm watching the same game every time, the only difference being that the players have different skill levels.

I miss the cool strategies in Tribes 2. Remember when we'd see a shrike escort a bomber and transport while a team tried to execute a full frontal assault, and the whole time you had a guy with an invis pack waiting to grab the flag and jump in his grav cycle? That was cool. Now I'm not suggesting that Tribes: Ascend include bombers and transports and try to mimic T2. This is a different game, I get it. And I like this new game.

But there is a distinct lack of fun strategies to execute. There are way too many reasons responsible to list off here. But the result is clear: the game is pretty repetitive. You got the same old cappers doing the same old routes, and the other team doing the same old thing to get the flag back. I can't be the only one getting bored by this?

And when you see a team use 3-5 PTHS on their 8-person team, and the same old strategy I described above, you have to wonder what's going on, no?

_________________

Ign: Maniak

Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:13 pm

Eldiran

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm
Posts: 256

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

Chargolith wrote:

Here's my take on this.

If a flag is being defended by 5 people, no one person should be able to pull off a flag grab. Yet, I've seen it done many times.

If one guy was defending the flag from 5 attackers. He will lose every time.

I'm not saying PTH is overpowered, as much as, defense needs a tweek. Currently, defense relies heavily on chasers. Some maps work fine for defense, but others make HOF pointless.

If most of the 5 defenders use deployables, this can be true. With forcefields, mines, and turrets, the flagstand can get pretty much impregnable.

Except maybe on Katabatic.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:21 pm

YogaSiddhi

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:17 pm
Posts: 5

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

Disagree with OP completely, post your youtube videos of you capturing the flag non stop all the time with no problems from any other class and then ill believe you

Video or it didnt happen

I also think your forgetting this is a level based and microtransaction game, guaranteed deployables and defenses will get upgraded in the future while pathfinders will remain relatively the same speed and survivability

Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:03 pm

fubbymaster

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:21 pm
Posts: 337

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

I dont want to play path, but others on my team often cant cap/chase, so i must.

IDK why all those other people play pth...

Maybe to llama the flag...

Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:23 pm

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

Chargolith wrote:

the thing is most of the time 3 of those 5 defenders are techs off jacking into a turret with their repair guns out.

so it's really a 2 on 1.

and if one guy sees you and the other that's 1 0n 1. better than 50/50 offs of getting away since you are attacking and have an advantage of preparation

if all 5 are paying attention you very rarely get out alive

_________________

original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig
The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:31 pm

Entropy

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am
Posts: 292
Steam Gamer Name: sianmink

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

aren't there only 1 or 2 approaches to the flag for a high speed capper on most maps?. Camp the approach or escape route instead of the flag stand. Set up a miniturret or claymore on a hill you know the capper needs to hit, park as a sentinel on the approach instead of the flag, where the capper is on a predictable path. Put prism mines or jackal rounds on an approach slope and laugh as the capper explodes. All DMBs should spare a mine for the exfil route... not all flag defense has to be at the stand where it's easily countered.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Chargolith

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:40 pm
Posts: 43

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

Entropy wrote:

Well, I wouldn't say 1 or 2 approaches. I can think of only one that has only two approaches, and that's Raindance. The problem with raindance, and katabatic for that matter, is it's comically easy to bombard from any number of positions. Turrets, shields, and mines are almost pointless on those maps. Then, to top it off, if you're the HOF and get knocked off either one of those platforms, it takes a lot of energy to get back up on them.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:21 am

disci

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:48 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Winland

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

kjbaraja wrote:

You need to get involved to the comp community then. There are lots of strategy which depends on how your opponent is playing. It might not be enough for some peeps in here but it definately isn't as bad as people, who often are not even playing comp, make it sound like.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:07 am

Entropy

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 am
Posts: 292
Steam Gamer Name: sianmink

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

Chargolith wrote:

The problem with raindance, and katabatic for that matter, is it's comically easy to bombard from any number of positions..

Which is why I suggest defending the approaches instead of/in addition to the flagstand. It takes a greater attacker effort to clear the left and right high speed approaches as well. I've caught many a capper setting up on the big hill before the final flag run with a well-place turret or burst of SMG fire. Rarely get kills, mind, but their run is totally disrupted, and the flagstand defenders have an easier time dealing with just the llamas.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:24 pm

pro-logic

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:01 pm
Posts: 437

Re: CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!

I've seen pathfinders call in an orbital strike while on their route, and fly through the orbital explosions to claim the flag.... effectively countering most of the defenders and deployables around the flag stand.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Forum rules

CTF & Pathfinders! The real issue!