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[Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns?
Author	Message
DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? Rimoha wrote: In this case the solution is just a bait because the problem lies with automatic weapons mechanics. VGY VGRW VGN VGRW VGRD Maybe? _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:12 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4858 Location: NA East	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? Probably implying that autos should be less accurate via a cone mechanic or something, which is counter productive to their target range, reduces accuracy by probability instead of skill, and can easily be circumvented by DPS regulation. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:39 am

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? I've changed the format to act like an actual weapon stat/rating which would be easily visible in the client. The idea is mostly the same, the way it's presented and balanced is altered somewhat though. Perhaps this approach will look less arbitrary and more like something that could actually be put into the game _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:31 am

MrLordcaptain Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:42 pm Posts: 654	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? I like. But I feel that even 80% might be to much due to large hitbox and slow movement. I would suggest a 100/90/70 rating _________________ Remove hitscan from pistols and shotguns
Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:32 am

starlinvf Beta Tester Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am Posts: 1478	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? -AEnubis- wrote: Probably implying that autos should be less accurate via a cone mechanic or something, which is counter productive to their target range, reduces accuracy by probability instead of skill, and can easily be circumvented by DPS regulation. Thats why you include cone bloom (a surrogate to recoil) that punishes sustained fire without hindering short bursts. Chainguns in particular usually have slower bloom rates to offset the spin up, allowing somewhere between 3-5 seconds of continuous fire before the spread is so bad, you can't anything not at point blank. This directly hinders the weapon being used for precision works, or forcibly limits the time it can be used as suppressive fire. With ARs having on-demand fire, you usually have a 3-5 shot grace before it blooms, can't be used for precision fire at twice the grace value, and utterly useless beyond point blank at 4 times the grace. In this situation, players are forced to use short bursts to maintain accuracy, but can go to town on anything they can shove the muzzle into. The benefit is reducing the effective range over time to aid in DPS control, but without having to impose complex rules on the damage characteristics. This is basic Counterstrike we're talking about. _________________ "Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."
Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:51 am

fubbymaster Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:21 pm Posts: 337	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? A solid +1!
Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:12 pm

VoltCruelerz Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:50 pm Posts: 721	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? DibbzTheLoner wrote: More heavily capping? VGTA Hadn't thought of this, but that'd be sweet. Properly executed Heavy-capping is something great to behold and can be difficult to pull off. I've seen three or four guys using grav bikes to heavy cap on Raindance and I've seen it before on Katabatic. On Raindance in particular, it doesn't seem to be terribly difficult to keep speed up as a heavy after grabbing the flag. _________________
Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:41 pm

SkepticTA Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm Posts: 3062	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? I think armor mass should be the key to balancing everything, including how we receive damage and knockback. Higher mass means more resistance to kinetic energy, thus taking less damage from bullet impacts but absorbing more impulse from explosions, resulting in more damage. So lights would take highest damage from bullets, but when hit by explosions they receive more knockback and less damage. Whereas heavies would take the least damage from bullets, but in explosions take more damage and less knockback. Mediums would obviously be in the middle. _________________ (AHK) T:A Physics Profiler
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:57 pm

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? MrLordcaptain wrote: I like. But I feel that even 80% might be to much due to large hitbox and slow movement. I would suggest a 100/90/70 rating So you'd rather it be something along these lines? Code: Class:\| AP1: \| AP2: \| AP3: \| AP4: \| AP5: \| ------------------------------------------ Light \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| Medium\| 90% \| 95% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| Heavy \| 70% \| 77.5%\| 85% \| 92.5%\| 100% \| _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:08 pm

UniversalPie Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm Posts: 619 Location: GTA Ontario	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? DibbzTheLoner wrote: So you'd rather it be something along these lines? Code: Class:\| AP1: \| AP2: \| AP3: \| AP4: \| AP5: \| ------------------------------------------ Light \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| Medium\| 90% \| 95% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| Heavy \| 70% \| 77.5%\| 85% \| 92.5%\| 100% \| I think thats pretty close, but I'd make a small change; Code: Class:\| AP1: \| AP2: \| AP3: \| AP4: \| AP5: \| ------------------------------------------ Light \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| 100% \| Medium\| 85% \| 90% \| 95% \| 100% \| 100% \| Heavy \| 70% \| 77.5%\| 85% \| 92.5%\| 100% \| I like the OP idea. Plus a slight nerf for all bullet weapons to AT OR BELOW the average aoe dps. _________________
Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:27 pm

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[Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns?

Author

Message

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

Rimoha wrote:

In this case the solution is just a bait because the problem lies with automatic weapons mechanics.

VGY
VGRW
VGN
VGRW
VGRD
Maybe?

_________________
This signature is green. I like the colour green.
Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green.
Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!

Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:12 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4858
Location: NA East

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

Probably implying that autos should be less accurate via a cone mechanic or something, which is counter productive to their target range, reduces accuracy by probability instead of skill, and can easily be circumvented by DPS regulation.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:39 am

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

I've changed the format to act like an actual weapon stat/rating which would be easily visible in the client.
The idea is mostly the same, the way it's presented and balanced is altered somewhat though.

Perhaps this approach will look less arbitrary and more like something that could actually be put into the game

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:31 am

MrLordcaptain

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 654

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

I like. But I feel that even 80% might be to much due to large hitbox and slow movement.

I would suggest a 100/90/70 rating

_________________
Remove hitscan from pistols and shotguns

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:32 am

starlinvf

Beta Tester

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am
Posts: 1478

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

-AEnubis- wrote:

Thats why you include cone bloom (a surrogate to recoil) that punishes sustained fire without hindering short bursts. Chainguns in particular usually have slower bloom rates to offset the spin up, allowing somewhere between 3-5 seconds of continuous fire before the spread is so bad, you can't anything not at point blank. This directly hinders the weapon being used for precision works, or forcibly limits the time it can be used as suppressive fire.

With ARs having on-demand fire, you usually have a 3-5 shot grace before it blooms, can't be used for precision fire at twice the grace value, and utterly useless beyond point blank at 4 times the grace. In this situation, players are forced to use short bursts to maintain accuracy, but can go to town on anything they can shove the muzzle into. The benefit is reducing the effective range over time to aid in DPS control, but without having to impose complex rules on the damage characteristics.

This is basic Counterstrike we're talking about.

_________________
"Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:51 am

fubbymaster

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:21 pm
Posts: 337

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

A solid
+1!

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:12 pm

VoltCruelerz

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:50 pm
Posts: 721

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

DibbzTheLoner wrote:

More heavily capping?
VGTA :lol:

Hadn't thought of this, but that'd be sweet. Properly executed Heavy-capping is something great to behold and can be difficult to pull off.

I've seen three or four guys using grav bikes to heavy cap on Raindance and I've seen it before on Katabatic. On Raindance in particular, it doesn't seem to be terribly difficult to keep speed up as a heavy after grabbing the flag.

_________________

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:41 pm

SkepticTA

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 3062

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

I think armor mass should be the key to balancing everything, including how we receive damage and knockback. Higher mass means more resistance to kinetic energy, thus taking less damage from bullet impacts but absorbing more impulse from explosions, resulting in more damage. So lights would take highest damage from bullets, but when hit by explosions they receive more knockback and less damage. Whereas heavies would take the least damage from bullets, but in explosions take more damage and less knockback. Mediums would obviously be in the middle.

_________________

(AHK) T:A Physics Profiler

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:57 pm

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

MrLordcaptain wrote:

I like. But I feel that even 80% might be to much due to large hitbox and slow movement.

I would suggest a 100/90/70 rating

So you'd rather it be something along these lines?

Code:

Class:| AP1: | AP2: | AP3: | AP4: | AP5: |
------------------------------------------
Light | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |
Medium| 90%  | 95%  | 100% | 100% | 100% |
Heavy | 70%  | 77.5%| 85%  | 92.5%| 100% |

Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:08 pm

UniversalPie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 619
Location: GTA Ontario

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

DibbzTheLoner wrote:

So you'd rather it be something along these lines?

Code:

Class:| AP1: | AP2: | AP3: | AP4: | AP5: |
------------------------------------------
Light | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |
Medium| 90%  | 95%  | 100% | 100% | 100% |
Heavy | 70%  | 77.5%| 85%  | 92.5%| 100% |

I think thats pretty close, but I'd make a small change;

Code:

Class:| AP1: | AP2: | AP3: | AP4: | AP5: |
------------------------------------------
Light | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |
Medium| 85%  | 90%  | 95% | 100% | 100% |
Heavy | 70%  | 77.5%| 85%  | 92.5%| 100% |

I like the OP idea. Plus a slight nerf for all bullet weapons to AT OR BELOW the average aoe dps.

_________________

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:27 pm

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[Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns?