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General CaH Feedback
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Molybdane Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm Posts: 220	Re: General CaH Feedback RootbeerAlamode wrote: Spawn points need a lot of work, its silly that you can repsawn in the same place as enemies. On its own, this makes a lot of sense. By making sure each side has its own spawnpoints, you don't end up with insta-kills, although turning on the invincibility, gold shield that ctf has also helps. However... RootbeerAlamode wrote: Each team needs it own side, where they spawn initially. Using Kata ans example, each team spawns on the side with their base. Then as they capture more points, they can respawn there as well. So if you hold either of the towers, thats a new potential point. However, the enemy teams intial spawn point is never available as a spawn point. So say for example, if DS controls all 4 points on kata, they can spawn near their base, or in either tower, but not in the blood eagle base. This would keep prevent the game from being about spamming from point to point, and more about actual capture and hold. It would also give defenders a slight advantage, as well as make retaking your own initial point a lot easier. This would allow comebacks to be possible. This is not a good idea if you think it through. Lets say (on the Katabatic map) that DS holds both the towers and its base, while BE holds its own base. You seem to limit BE spawn sites to its own base, but correct me if I'm wrong. If so however, a comeback for BE is now very hard to pull off because: Points C is too far away to attack. Points A and B are the obvious targets, because they are closer, but these points are wery hard to take, particularly if DS has its defense in order. I am certain that by making sure no team has it's own side, all points controlled by a team that has 3 or 4 points under control remain at risk of an attack by their opponents, because their opponents aren't bottlenecked into attacking the closest point from the same angle. This is because the spawning points of the side with the least number of points isn't limited. I think this leaves more room for a comeback than an increased degree of certainty that one point is always yours or easy to make yours.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:56 am

Molybdane Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm Posts: 220	Re: General CaH Feedback There is one more thing that comes to mind regarding this gametype. Taking a look at the Outskits 3p map, I find point 'B' much more fun to defend than point 'C'. Point 'B' feels larger and more sheltered than point 'C'. This is because you can fight for, or about point 'C', but you cannot fight in or at point 'C', because it is too small for that. Also, the site of point 'B' offers more possiblities to put down deployables, and I always try to come up with new locations for deployable turrets. Basically, I greatly prefer point 'B' over 'C' and would like to see that new maps have objectives that look more like 'B' than 'C'.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:02 am

MasterBaits Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:00 pm Posts: 69	Re: General CaH Feedback Strangely enough, Outskirts 3p is me favourite map on this rotation...just because of point A (i love a good disco) _________________ Who the hell’s interrupting my Kung Fu?!
Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:03 am

Sabertoothpuppy Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:03 pm Posts: 575	Re: General CaH Feedback Spawns need a lot of work, it's the most aggravating point of the mode. On Kata and Raindance you absolutely need to control at least one of the towers or else you can just as well forfeit if they have the lead. As ridiculous as the vehicules are, they can't possibly begin to allow you to take back the lead since they have to actively get in the fray to be any help. Worst case scenario is Raindance when stuck with C and E: a come back is near impossible. The spawns behind the base are so bad that by the time you get to B or D they could have had the time to go back and forth between each towers twice. On the other hand dying defending those points offers close to no penality, even if you respawn on the opposite tower you can contest the point before they get their reinforcements to respawn on the point. MasterBaits wrote: Strangely enough, Outskirts 3p is me favourite map on this rotation...just because of point A (i love a good disco) My exact thoughts... Which brings me to this: Has the map been removed from the rotation or is it just me?
Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:51 pm

MasterBaits Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:00 pm Posts: 69	Re: General CaH Feedback S4br3t00th wrote: Spawns need a lot of work, it's the most aggravating point of the mode. Totally agree, especially if you are playing heavy on the bigger maps it takes forever to get places S4br3t00th wrote: My exact thoughts... Which brings me to this: Has the map been removed from the rotation or is it just me? I wondered the same thing, I was playing earlier and the map wasn't on the rotation, but I haven't found any announcement about it _________________ Who the hell’s interrupting my Kung Fu?!
Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:50 pm

VonSchlupeurk Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm Posts: 448	Re: General CaH Feedback What if every current point was divided into 2 locations that needed to be held simultaneously to start scoring ? Thus mostly removing the problem of (uncoordinated) explosive spam on the point. For example , Katabatic's C could have 2 points on the flag stand and generator , same with Raindance. This would bring a greater emphasis on killing attackers / defenders , as it would be fairly easy to disrupt enemy scoring. _________________ Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:12 pm

Auxili Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:55 am Posts: 328	Re: General CaH Feedback infiltrators are perma banned in customer servers on capture and hold. hi rez, you need to allow people who spend all their exp and gold in infiltrator to reallocate their shiz somehow. It sucks that we're limited to one class due to how the f2p microtransaction system works.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:15 pm

Slate245 Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:35 pm Posts: 2	Re: General CaH Feedback I think some good and potentially competative players disliked outskirts so much that it was removed/remade. I hope devs make some changes to outskirts (let's be honest, it was ridiculous) or even make a different map, but I strongly believe that CaH needs to have a 3 point map. 3 point map means less skill, but more fun, sometimes dumb fun. Most new players (as me) like to have fun time in tribes with no strategy (before CaH it was TDE), thats why I believe we need outskirts back, or new 3 point map.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:36 pm

Slate245 Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:35 pm Posts: 2	Re: General CaH Feedback VonSchlupeurk wrote: What if every current point was divided into 2 locations that needed to be held simultaneously to start scoring ? What about Raindance D and B? one point at the bottom of a tower and one at the top? Could be kinda difficult to get simultaneously I think, but it's an interesting point of view. It should be an option on custom services I think, a hardmode of some sort.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:40 pm

SenorRaoul Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:56 pm Posts: 300	Re: General CaH Feedback I agree with the general consens that the spawn points need reworking. here is my suggestion: every point needs a spawn location that is away from the point but allows for a fast energy friendly route to the it. you get the difference from points held as your possible spawn locations: e.g. kata: both teams start on the opposite ends of the map, with each point captured you lose spawn options. so when you hold c you will be able to spawn at a, b, d. when you hold a and c you'll be able to spawn at b and d. and when you hold a, b and c you'll only be able to spawn at d. you also should be able to choose your spawnlocation (from the ones available)
Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:09 pm

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General CaH Feedback

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Molybdane

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm
Posts: 220

Re: General CaH Feedback

RootbeerAlamode wrote:

Spawn points need a lot of work, its silly that you can repsawn in the same place as enemies.

On its own, this makes a lot of sense. By making sure each side has its own spawnpoints, you don't end up with insta-kills, although turning on the invincibility, gold shield that ctf has also helps.

However...

RootbeerAlamode wrote:

Each team needs it own side, where they spawn initially. Using Kata ans example, each team spawns on the side with their base.
Then as they capture more points, they can respawn there as well. So if you hold either of the towers, thats a new potential point.
However, the enemy teams intial spawn point is never available as a spawn point.

So say for example, if DS controls all 4 points on kata, they can spawn near their base, or in either tower, but not in the blood eagle base.

This would keep prevent the game from being about spamming from point to point, and more about actual capture and hold. It would also give defenders a slight advantage, as well as make retaking your own initial point a lot easier. This would allow comebacks to be possible.

This is not a good idea if you think it through. Lets say (on the Katabatic map) that DS holds both the towers and its base, while BE holds its own base. You seem to limit BE spawn sites to its own base, but correct me if I'm wrong. If so however, a comeback for BE is now very hard to pull off because:

Points C is too far away to attack.
Points A and B are the obvious targets, because they are closer, but these points are wery hard to take, particularly if DS has its defense in order.

I am certain that by making sure no team has it's own side, all points controlled by a team that has 3 or 4 points under control remain at risk of an attack by their opponents, because their opponents aren't bottlenecked into attacking the closest point from the same angle. This is because the spawning points of the side with the least number of points isn't limited. I think this leaves more room for a comeback than an increased degree of certainty that one point is always yours or easy to make yours.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:56 am

Molybdane

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm
Posts: 220

Re: General CaH Feedback

There is one more thing that comes to mind regarding this gametype. Taking a look at the Outskits 3p map, I find point 'B' much more fun to defend than point 'C'. Point 'B' feels larger and more sheltered than point 'C'. This is because you can fight for, or about point 'C', but you cannot fight in or at point 'C', because it is too small for that. Also, the site of point 'B' offers more possiblities to put down deployables, and I always try to come up with new locations for deployable turrets.

Basically, I greatly prefer point 'B' over 'C' and would like to see that new maps have objectives that look more like 'B' than 'C'.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:02 am

MasterBaits

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:00 pm
Posts: 69

Re: General CaH Feedback

Strangely enough, Outskirts 3p is me favourite map on this rotation...just because of point A (i love a good disco)

_________________
Who the hell’s interrupting my Kung Fu?!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:03 am

Sabertoothpuppy

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:03 pm
Posts: 575

Re: General CaH Feedback

Spawns need a lot of work, it's the most aggravating point of the mode. On Kata and Raindance you absolutely need to control at least one of the towers or else you can just as well forfeit if they have the lead. As ridiculous as the vehicules are, they can't possibly begin to allow you to take back the lead since they have to actively get in the fray to be any help.
Worst case scenario is Raindance when stuck with C and E: a come back is near impossible. The spawns behind the base are so bad that by the time you get to B or D they could have had the time to go back and forth between each towers twice. On the other hand dying defending those points offers close to no penality, even if you respawn on the opposite tower you can contest the point before they get their reinforcements to respawn on the point.

MasterBaits wrote:

Strangely enough, Outskirts 3p is me favourite map on this rotation...just because of point A (i love a good disco)

My exact thoughts... Which brings me to this: Has the map been removed from the rotation or is it just me?

Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:51 pm

MasterBaits

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:00 pm
Posts: 69

Re: General CaH Feedback

S4br3t00th wrote:

Spawns need a lot of work, it's the most aggravating point of the mode.

Totally agree, especially if you are playing heavy on the bigger maps it takes forever to get places

S4br3t00th wrote:

My exact thoughts... Which brings me to this: Has the map been removed from the rotation or is it just me?

I wondered the same thing, I was playing earlier and the map wasn't on the rotation, but I haven't found any announcement about it

_________________
Who the hell’s interrupting my Kung Fu?!

Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:50 pm

VonSchlupeurk

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm
Posts: 448

Re: General CaH Feedback

What if every current point was divided into 2 locations that needed to be held simultaneously to start scoring ? Thus mostly removing the problem of (uncoordinated) explosive spam on the point.
For example , Katabatic's C could have 2 points on the flag stand and generator , same with Raindance. This would bring a greater emphasis on killing attackers / defenders , as it would be fairly easy to disrupt enemy scoring.

_________________

Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:12 pm

Auxili

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:55 am
Posts: 328

Re: General CaH Feedback

infiltrators are perma banned in customer servers on capture and hold. hi rez, you need to allow people who spend all their exp and gold in infiltrator to reallocate their shiz somehow. It sucks that we're limited to one class due to how the f2p microtransaction system works.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:15 pm

Slate245

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:35 pm
Posts: 2

Re: General CaH Feedback

I think some good and potentially competative players disliked outskirts so much that it was removed/remade. I hope devs make some changes to outskirts (let's be honest, it was ridiculous) or even make a different map, but I strongly believe that CaH needs to have a 3 point map. 3 point map means less skill, but more fun, sometimes dumb fun. Most new players (as me) like to have fun time in tribes with no strategy (before CaH it was TDE), thats why I believe we need outskirts back, or new 3 point map.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:36 pm

Slate245

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:35 pm
Posts: 2

Re: General CaH Feedback

VonSchlupeurk wrote:

What if every current point was divided into 2 locations that needed to be held simultaneously to start scoring ?

What about Raindance D and B? one point at the bottom of a tower and one at the top? Could be kinda difficult to get simultaneously I think, but it's an interesting point of view. It should be an option on custom services I think, a hardmode of some sort.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:40 pm

SenorRaoul

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 300

Re: General CaH Feedback

I agree with the general consens that the spawn points need reworking.

here is my suggestion:
every point needs a spawn location that is away from the point but allows for a fast energy friendly route to the it.

you get the difference from points held as your possible spawn locations:
e.g. kata: both teams start on the opposite ends of the map, with each point captured you lose spawn options. so when you hold c you will be able to spawn at a, b, d. when you hold a and c you'll be able to spawn at b and d. and when you hold a, b and c you'll only be able to spawn at d.

you also should be able to choose your spawnlocation (from the ones available)

Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:09 pm