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State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules
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HiRezBart Hi-Rez Team Member Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:08 pm Posts: 276 Location: Hi-Rez Studios	State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules Hello! We are now on the business side of release and it is time to really get down to it figuring out how all of the new server flags that are available can/should be configured to create the best playing field for our tournaments. The benefit of having a unified rule set is that as new partners and tournament providers can easily pick up Tribes: Ascend and integrate it into their offerings without too much theory crafting. It will also provide a baseline for competitive play and rulesets to iterate off of. Baseline Ruleset - 7 Man CTF: 25 Min Time Limit 10 Min Overtime 120 sec Warm Up 1 Sniper per team - Server setting 1 Shrike per Team 1 Tank per team No Strikes Call-In Inventories do not give new Loadout, only Ammo 7 Caps to win CTF Naked Spawn - Solider with no upgrades 50% Friendly Fire **Subject to change to 100% if desired by players Deployables not gen dependent No Generator Regen No Base Upgrades Destructible Inventory Stations No respawn time There are currently servers with the following ruleset enforced, except for line items in orange. These will be included in the next patch. The servers are marked "Competitive Rules", I would encourage you to try them out! Destructible inventory stations will be included in a later patch. Note: Device limitation will not be server side. It is safe to assume a minimum 2-4week period between introduction of any new content and its competitive viability to allow for teams to learn new items/maps and to allow for re-balancing if necessary. Tribes: Ascend will be spread across many platforms in the near future and rule-set solidarity is very important to making this scene grow! I'd like to finalize a first pass rule-set no later than Friday, 4/27/2012. Please give feedback in the thread about this ruleset. Please temper any responses with actual play-time! Some things I'd like to see discussion on (however, everything is fair game!): ++ Cost of Vehicles -- Currently, vehicles cost 1 credit and are limited by number per team -- Should vehicles have a cost, if so, What? ++ Number of caps -- This will likely move to map dependent from serverwide, what maps should have what cap limit. ++ Naked Spawn -- Known Issues: Spawn points, Always naked or only naked when gen down? Solider or Pathfinder? -- PTH/SOL/JUG spawn in with "kit-out" required for other classes? _________________ Relax.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:52 pm

PROJIE Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am Posts: 294	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules why don't u just let me and mabel do this for you? It would probably be a lot faster. _________________ Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic team icon - #1 classic team exiled arena - #1 arena voted best player all time - t2 competitive community current best t:a player watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:00 pm

leadingrunner Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:11 am Posts: 9 Steam Gamer Name: [RH]leading	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules Naked spawns kinda suck from a spectator standpoint, but comp is about players first spectators second so..... _________________
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:02 pm

Frost Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:22 pm Posts: 160	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules Prior to testing speculations: []Inventories need to be separate from gens []Calldown inventories supplying just ammo will be useless, who runs out of ammo consistently []Naked soldier vs 3 Raider/HO won't take back gens []1 Credit vehicles = opposite of what we want []When vehicles get upped in price, people will just spend all their credits on buying their shriker/tanker vehicles since inventories will be useless as gen dependent/ammo only []Ruleset will nerf defense more than it already is That being said, this is a placeholder and I intend to test these rules out and suggest stuff later on _________________ ................................................ Last edited by Frost on Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:03 pm

Talespin Beta Tester Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:04 pm Posts: 40	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules I don't think naked spawns should be in any rule set for a while, it needs a lot of work and playing with still. _________________ http://www.twitch.tv/talespinlol
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:05 pm

Artymisss Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:11 pm Posts: 188	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules I am wondering why it changed back to 7 man when it was already voted on (at leasy by gameshrine) to be 8 man. _________________ http://www.mootpointgaming.comTo apply.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:10 pm

dodgepong Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:56 am Posts: 176	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules Quote: ++ Cost of Vehicles -- Currently, vehicles cost 1 credit and are limited by number per team -- Should vehicles have a cost, if so, What? Shrikes and tanks are too strong, period. They are inordinately powerful, and take an inordinate amount of effort to stop them. The band-aid fixes, so far, have been limiting them to one per team, and there have been hopes of INCREASING their price to make them harder to get. Making them cost 1 credit is a terrible idea. They need to be nerfed to hell if they are going to cost 1 credit. I'll try to refrain from derailing the conversation into shrike/tank balance which has already beed discussed elsewhere at length, but the fact is that tanks and shrikes are broken, and if nerfing them isn't an option, then they need to be more expensive or banned in competitive play.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:29 pm

-Thea- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:53 pm Posts: 1621	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules Tanks will be nerfed just by having friendly fire on, so that should be taken into consideration when coming up with increased cost IMO. Edit: Whereas shrikes generally go after a single target, tanks are good for shelling the flag stand, scrambles for the flag, etc. With FF on, tank drivers will need to be much more selective about their shots to avoid killing their own teammates. I'm not really a fan of naked spawns, shrug. _________________
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:36 pm

drloser Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:16 am Posts: 82	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules Call-In Inventories do not give new Loadout, only Ammo <= then they are pretty useless, except for the turrets during the standoff. Well, why not, actually it's already the case. Naked Spawn - Solider with no upgrades <= this may not work with auto-regen. It will be too difficult to get the gen back No Base Upgrades <= turrets and radar will always be down. Too long to repair them and too short to destroy them 7 Man CTF <= we know why you want 7v7, and you know that almost everybody prefers to play 8v8 I don't understand why we need naked spawn to play competitively... Actually, 7v7 naked spawn is a completely different game. In my opinion, we need far more than 14 days to test these rules. I don't see the point to discuss these rules before testing them, but unfortunately you will have a very hard time to find volonteers to test them.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:59 pm

Silverstar- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:47 pm Posts: 22 Steam Gamer Name: Silverstar	Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules If the game is being ran as 7's I think the deployable invs need to be able to change a players loadout. Just increase the price for them. Otherwisw you're looking at having to put one player on constant gen duty, and if comp play is 7,s then you're either pulling one player from flag d to do it, which leads to an almost gurante grab for the opsing team, or you're looking at pulling a player from o to be on gen duty, which leads to a slower paced offense, which leads to a esport that isn't spectator friendly. If u look how the game is now, teams already make sure the gens are almost constantly down, if you make it so we have to have gens up, teams have to counter by doing what I stated above. Soloution to that is like I said, increase cost of deployable invs and let them change players loadouts, or make comp play 8's _________________ Last edited by Silverstar- on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:07 pm

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State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

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Message

HiRezBart

Hi-Rez Team Member

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:08 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Hi-Rez Studios

State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

Hello!

We are now on the business side of release and it is time to really get down to it figuring out how all of the new server flags that are available can/should be configured to create the best playing field for our tournaments.

The benefit of having a unified rule set is that as new partners and tournament providers can easily pick up Tribes: Ascend and integrate it into their offerings without too much theory crafting. It will also provide a baseline for competitive play and rulesets to iterate off of.

Baseline Ruleset - 7 Man CTF:

1 Sniper per team - Server setting

Call-In Inventories do not give new Loadout, only Ammo

Naked Spawn - Solider with no upgrades

Destructible Inventory Stations

There are currently servers with the following ruleset enforced, except for line items in orange. These will be included in the next patch. The servers are marked "Competitive Rules", I would encourage you to try them out! Destructible inventory stations will be included in a later patch.

Note: Device limitation will not be server side. It is safe to assume a minimum 2-4week period between introduction of any new content and its competitive viability to allow for teams to learn new items/maps and to allow for re-balancing if necessary.

Tribes: Ascend will be spread across many platforms in the near future and rule-set solidarity is very important to making this scene grow! I'd like to finalize a first pass rule-set no later than Friday, 4/27/2012.

Please give feedback in the thread about this ruleset. Please temper any responses with actual play-time! Some things I'd like to see discussion on (however, everything is fair game!):

++ Cost of Vehicles
-- Currently, vehicles cost 1 credit and are limited by number per team
-- Should vehicles have a cost, if so, What?

++ Number of caps
-- This will likely move to map dependent from serverwide, what maps should have what cap limit.

++ Naked Spawn
-- Known Issues: Spawn points, Always naked or only naked when gen down? Solider or Pathfinder?
-- PTH/SOL/JUG spawn in with "kit-out" required for other classes?

_________________
Relax.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:52 pm

PROJIE

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:16 am
Posts: 294

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

why don't u just let me and mabel do this for you? It would probably be a lot faster.

_________________
Stack 'n' Hack - #1 t2 7 man
team 311 - #2 base++, #2 classic
team icon - #1 classic
team exiled arena - #1 arena

voted best player all time - t2 competitive community
current best t:a player
watch me annihilate newbs - www.twitch.tv/projectileomg

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:00 pm

leadingrunner

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:11 am
Posts: 9
Steam Gamer Name: [RH]leading

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

Naked spawns kinda suck from a spectator standpoint, but comp is about players first spectators second so.....

_________________

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:02 pm

Frost

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:22 pm
Posts: 160

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

Prior to testing speculations:

[*]Inventories need to be separate from gens
[*]Calldown inventories supplying just ammo will be useless, who runs out of ammo consistently
[*]Naked soldier vs 3 Raider/HO won't take back gens
[*]1 Credit vehicles = opposite of what we want
[*]When vehicles get upped in price, people will just spend all their credits on buying their shriker/tanker vehicles since inventories will be useless as gen dependent/ammo only
[*]Ruleset will nerf defense more than it already is

That being said, this is a placeholder and I intend to test these rules out and suggest stuff later on

_________________
................................................

Last edited by Frost on Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:03 pm

Talespin

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:04 pm
Posts: 40

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

I don't think naked spawns should be in any rule set for a while, it needs a lot of work and playing with still.

_________________
http://www.twitch.tv/talespinlol

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:05 pm

Artymisss

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Posts: 188

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

I am wondering why it changed back to 7 man when it was already voted on (at leasy by gameshrine) to be 8 man.

_________________

http://www.mootpointgaming.comTo apply.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:10 pm

dodgepong

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:56 am
Posts: 176

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

Quote:

++ Cost of Vehicles
-- Currently, vehicles cost 1 credit and are limited by number per team
-- Should vehicles have a cost, if so, What?

Shrikes and tanks are too strong, period. They are inordinately powerful, and take an inordinate amount of effort to stop them. The band-aid fixes, so far, have been limiting them to one per team, and there have been hopes of INCREASING their price to make them harder to get. Making them cost 1 credit is a terrible idea. They need to be nerfed to hell if they are going to cost 1 credit.

I'll try to refrain from derailing the conversation into shrike/tank balance which has already beed discussed elsewhere at length, but the fact is that tanks and shrikes are broken, and if nerfing them isn't an option, then they need to be more expensive or banned in competitive play.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:29 pm

-Thea-

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:53 pm
Posts: 1621

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

Tanks will be nerfed just by having friendly fire on, so that should be taken into consideration when coming up with increased cost IMO. Edit: Whereas shrikes generally go after a single target, tanks are good for shelling the flag stand, scrambles for the flag, etc. With FF on, tank drivers will need to be much more selective about their shots to avoid killing their own teammates.

I'm not really a fan of naked spawns, shrug.

_________________

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:36 pm

drloser

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:16 am
Posts: 82

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

Call-In Inventories do not give new Loadout, only Ammo <= then they are pretty useless, except for the turrets during the standoff. Well, why not, actually it's already the case.

Naked Spawn - Solider with no upgrades <= this may not work with auto-regen. It will be too difficult to get the gen back

No Base Upgrades <= turrets and radar will always be down. Too long to repair them and too short to destroy them

7 Man CTF <= we know why you want 7v7, and you know that almost everybody prefers to play 8v8

I don't understand why we need naked spawn to play competitively... Actually, 7v7 naked spawn is a completely different game. In my opinion, we need far more than 14 days to test these rules. I don't see the point to discuss these rules before testing them, but unfortunately you will have a very hard time to find volonteers to test them.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:59 pm

Silverstar-

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 22
Steam Gamer Name: Silverstar

Re: State of the Shazbot 2 - Competition Rules

If the game is being ran as 7's I think the deployable invs need to be able to change a players loadout. Just increase the price for them. Otherwisw you're looking at having to put one player on constant gen duty, and if comp play is 7,s then you're either pulling one player from flag d to do it, which leads to an almost gurante grab for the opsing team, or you're looking at pulling a player from o to be on gen duty, which leads to a slower paced offense, which leads to a esport that isn't spectator friendly.

If u look how the game is now, teams already make sure the gens are almost constantly down, if you make it so we have to have gens up, teams have to counter by doing what I stated above. Soloution to that is like I said, increase cost of deployable invs and let them change players loadouts, or make comp play 8's

_________________

Last edited by Silverstar- on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:07 pm