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Thrust Pack usability fixes
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hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Thrust Pack usability fixes I unlocked the Thrust Pack recently, and while it can be useful it's annoying to use for two big reasons: Base the acceleration-benefit only on the energy it actually consumes. Right now the Thrust pack might consume 80 energy, but for the same "cost" it behaves very differently depending on whether you started with 81 energy or whether you started with 120. That makes no sense! Why should it "care" about how much extra energy I had? In situations where the Thrust Pack's influence is capped, don't consume energy that it "can't use". You can be traveling at some enormous speed, and the Thrust pack has negligible beneficial effect, but it will still drain a large amount of energy while doing nothing. I'm not asking for it to work at all speeds, I just don't want to have to memorize even more "magic numbers" in the current skiing implementation. If you put limits on its acceleration, those limits should also apply to its energy usage. ______________ I'd like to add that some of these changes are necessary because the user-interface simply doesn't give you enough information for an informed choice even if you wanted to. Your "speed" meter makes no distinction between horizontal and vertical velocity. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:18 pm

Tramadolol Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:47 am Posts: 610	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes Agreed on all points. The thrust pack seems quite inconsistent on how it applies the boost. Sometimes i've full energy and i only get a small bump, sometimes it's almost too much of a boost. Could also be lag related issues but it sure would be nice if it would be fixed. Also, you only need to slightly move in one direction.. if you face the other direction and want a boost, there's barely anything happening. And the "consumes full energy without doing anything" part could do with a fix aswell. Or how about giving the thrust pack a cooldown instead of it taking so much energy? We're still left with the crappy energy regen so i don' think it would be too powerful.
Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:23 pm

SkepticTA Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm Posts: 3062	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes I think it uses 80% of your energy up to a max of 80 for an 82 km/h boost. The thrust return doesn't start to diminish until after 72 km/h, so you have a variance of up to 72 on your resulting speed based on how fast you are moving when you thrust, but before that threshold it still adds the same amount of speed. Above 72 km/h, you will get less speed for the same energy. 0 km/h (standstill) => 82 km/h 36 km/h (walking) => 118 km/h 72 km/h (jumpjet) => 154 km/h _________________ (AHK) T:A Physics Profiler
Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:47 pm

w00tm0ng3r Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:44 am Posts: 91	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes I agree with all points, but I also think it should actually do what its name implies. Namely, if I'm traveling in one direction, face another, and hit thrust, it should violently thrust me in that direction (I would of course inherit momentum in the direction of my previous movement as well). This really shouldn't be hard to implement (it's vector addition! middle schoolers can do that!) and would add a lot to the thrust packs utility.
Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:22 am

SkepticTA Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm Posts: 3062	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes w00tm0ng3r wrote: I agree with all points, but I also think it should actually do what its name implies. Namely, if I'm traveling in one direction, face another, and hit thrust, it should violently thrust me in that direction (I would of course inherit momentum in the direction of my previous movement as well). This really shouldn't be hard to implement (it's vector addition! middle schoolers can do that!) and would add a lot to the thrust packs utility. Uh, that is exactly how it works. The pack adds 82 km/h in the direction you are pointing, allowing you to alter your direction. Although it does seem to have some horizontal bias, thrusting straight up or down doesn't work too well. _________________ (AHK) T:A Physics Profiler
Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:14 am

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes SkepticTA wrote: Uh, that is exactly how it works. The pack adds 82 km/h in the direction you are pointing, allowing you to alter your direction. Not really. From a standstill on a nice flat area, you can full-energy-boost once to reach ~80, recharge, boost again to reach ~160... But if you turn 180 degrees and full-energy-boost backwards, your speed drops only to ~144, rather than all the way down to ~80 as expected. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:10 am

w00tm0ng3r Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:44 am Posts: 91	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes SkepticTA wrote: Uh, that is exactly how it works. The pack adds 82 km/h in the direction you are pointing, allowing you to alter your direction. Although it does seem to have some horizontal bias, thrusting straight up or down doesn't work too well. Odd nothing of the sort is happening for me. I'm going forward, thrust sideways, and absolutely nothing happens. I'm just wasting 80 energy for no benefit whatsoever. I don't even budge sideways.
Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:12 am

starlinvf Beta Tester Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am Posts: 1478	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes w00tm0ng3r wrote: SkepticTA wrote: Uh, that is exactly how it works. The pack adds 82 km/h in the direction you are pointing, allowing you to alter your direction. Although it does seem to have some horizontal bias, thrusting straight up or down doesn't work too well. Odd nothing of the sort is happening for me. I'm going forward, thrust sideways, and absolutely nothing happens. I'm just wasting 80 energy for no benefit whatsoever. I don't even budge sideways. Fish patch inheritance? _________________ "Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."
Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:27 am

RootbeerAlamode Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:01 pm Posts: 1538 Steam Gamer Name: D-Hearts	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes Don't you love corner cases.\ Fix your physics, fix your game hirez. Its that simple. _________________ 100% Inheritance, 100% Intuitive. Inheritance Demonstration [video] Tips for Aiming with 100% [video]
Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:32 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4879 Location: NA East	Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes ^^ I'll have what he's having. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:06 am

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Thrust Pack usability fixes

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hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Thrust Pack usability fixes

I unlocked the Thrust Pack recently, and while it can be useful it's annoying to use for two big reasons:

Base the acceleration-benefit only on the energy it actually consumes.

Right now the Thrust pack might consume 80 energy, but for the same "cost" it behaves very differently depending on whether you started with 81 energy or whether you started with 120. That makes no sense! Why should it "care" about how much extra energy I had?

In situations where the Thrust Pack's influence is capped, don't consume energy that it "can't use".

You can be traveling at some enormous speed, and the Thrust pack has negligible beneficial effect, but it will still drain a large amount of energy while doing nothing. I'm not asking for it to work at all speeds, I just don't want to have to memorize even more "magic numbers" in the current skiing implementation. If you put limits on its acceleration, those limits should also apply to its energy usage.

______________

I'd like to add that some of these changes are necessary because the user-interface simply doesn't give you enough information for an informed choice even if you wanted to. Your "speed" meter makes no distinction between horizontal and vertical velocity.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:18 pm

Tramadolol

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:47 am
Posts: 610

Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes

Agreed on all points.
The thrust pack seems quite inconsistent on how it applies the boost. Sometimes i've full energy and i only get a small bump, sometimes it's almost too much of a boost. Could also be lag related issues but it sure would be nice if it would be fixed.
Also, you only need to slightly move in one direction.. if you face the other direction and want a boost, there's barely anything happening. And the "consumes full energy without doing anything" part could do with a fix aswell.

Or how about giving the thrust pack a cooldown instead of it taking so much energy? We're still left with the crappy energy regen so i don' think it would be too powerful.

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:23 pm

SkepticTA

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 3062

Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes

I think it uses 80% of your energy up to a max of 80 for an 82 km/h boost. The thrust return doesn't start to diminish until after 72 km/h, so you have a variance of up to 72 on your resulting speed based on how fast you are moving when you thrust, but before that threshold it still adds the same amount of speed. Above 72 km/h, you will get less speed for the same energy.

0 km/h (standstill) => 82 km/h
36 km/h (walking) => 118 km/h
72 km/h (jumpjet) => 154 km/h

_________________

(AHK) T:A Physics Profiler

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:47 pm

w00tm0ng3r

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:44 am
Posts: 91

Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes

I agree with all points, but I also think it should actually do what its name implies. Namely, if I'm traveling in one direction, face another, and hit thrust, it should violently thrust me in that direction (I would of course inherit momentum in the direction of my previous movement as well). This really shouldn't be hard to implement (it's vector addition! middle schoolers can do that!) and would add a lot to the thrust packs utility.

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:22 am

SkepticTA

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 3062

Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes

w00tm0ng3r wrote:

Uh, that is exactly how it works. The pack adds 82 km/h in the direction you are pointing, allowing you to alter your direction. Although it does seem to have some horizontal bias, thrusting straight up or down doesn't work too well.

_________________

(AHK) T:A Physics Profiler

Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:14 am

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes

SkepticTA wrote:

Uh, that is exactly how it works. The pack adds 82 km/h in the direction you are pointing, allowing you to alter your direction.

Not really. From a standstill on a nice flat area, you can full-energy-boost once to reach ~80, recharge, boost again to reach ~160... But if you turn 180 degrees and full-energy-boost backwards, your speed drops only to ~144, rather than all the way down to ~80 as expected.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:10 am

w00tm0ng3r

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:44 am
Posts: 91

Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes

SkepticTA wrote:

Odd nothing of the sort is happening for me. I'm going forward, thrust sideways, and absolutely nothing happens. I'm just wasting 80 energy for no benefit whatsoever. I don't even budge sideways.

Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:12 am

starlinvf

Beta Tester

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am
Posts: 1478

Re: Thrust Pack usability fixes

w00tm0ng3r wrote:

SkepticTA wrote:

Odd nothing of the sort is happening for me. I'm going forward, thrust sideways, and absolutely nothing happens. I'm just wasting 80 energy for no benefit whatsoever. I don't even budge sideways.

Fish patch inheritance?

_________________
"Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."

Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:27 am

RootbeerAlamode