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MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Tweak Discussion! Updated 3/29/2012
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ArchangelXv1 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm Posts: 1600 Location: Oahu,Hawaii	MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Tweak Discussion! Updated 3/29/2012 General Wants: FIX THE PHYSICS! It would seem this is the core problem with the mortar at this point in time. Mortars and MIRVs have some strange hard limit/physics which cause them to drop like stones/parachute after a certain time/distance, do not follow what might be considered remotely normal physics. Firing at various angles makes no difference (shots still land in same place) Underpowered and useless against anything not on flat ground. Better off using disks. And/Or including the following: - Mortar Range Increase (whether through velocity inheritance, muzzle velocity, etc) [ - Greater Inheritance (Increased to 50% recently) - Mortar Velocity Increase (Muzzle Velocity) (Increased , is it still enough?) - Severe Reduction in Arming Distance (ie, 40meters instead of the whatever it is now) - Elimination of Bounce after a certain distance (less than what it is now) - Reduction in Fuse Time After Bounce - Increase Damage to previous comparable Tribes standards - Implement Mid-Air Mortars - Implement Explode On Impact for Base Equipment (after a reasonable arming distance) - Implement MVP Accolade for Artillery Strikes - Examine Non-Regs regarding fast cappers - Examine AoE with a possible increase - Examine Reloading Issues - Implement Better Shadows for Depth Perception - Fix Mortar Reloading & Improve Weapon Switching (slight reduction from 6 to 5 seconds last patch) Recent Comparison Videos by DogmeatX that display the inherit problems of the current mortar: Older videos to follow: The video covers the AoE, Knockback, Damage to Equipment, Bounce, Fuse, Momentum/Velocity Inheritance & Weapon Switching problems. Enjoy my misery. Please, the mortar needs some love. For an example of previous mortar capability, please see this T2 video: T2 Mortar Comparison Video Additional Fail Videos A Study On Mortar Fail Heavy vs. hitscan: Mortar Distance [/quote] "Win" Videos Heavy Loving Heavy Metal Heavy Offense War Machine MidAir Mortar (Fail Or Win?) UPDATE: Another video from yours truly...concentrated on only putting artillery strikes, blue plate specials, and flag defense/recovery. Hardly any regular mortar shots in here, I think maybe 1 or two. It's pretty much long bomb for the win in this vid. I'll be making another video without music, with only arty strikes due to special request, plus there are some whoppers that just couldn't be fully appreciated at the same time while making it work with the music. Seriously, I had some "holy @#$%" moments yesterday that made me feel like I was playing T2 again. Enjoy! Derezzed Here's another video...as mentioned previously & requested by a few people asking for one that had clearer clips with no music. You've seen these before (well, not all of them), but this shows the setup and art strike much clearer: The Juggernaught - Part 1: The Art of the Mortar Weapons Comparison Charts Take a look also at how the Spinfusor MKD & Mortar stack up against other weapons. Just pure insanity. Credit to Daekesh (if this is wrong, let me know.) Possibly outdated. Mortar Comparison Spinfusor MKD Comparison _________________ Communication is a very worthy thing. Fool's Epic T1 Movie Last edited by ArchangelXv1 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:52 am, edited 48 times in total.
Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:33 am

xxzzy Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:50 pm Posts: 7	Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Yeah - it's hard to hit people with a mortar shell; and you have the movement penalty of being in heavy armour; at the moment the destructive power doesn't seem sufficient to compensate for those disadvantages.
Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:44 am

Moxieus Beta Tester Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:02 am Posts: 485	Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Yea a lot of those should either have outright killed the players or knocked them flying/stopped them dead with a fair chunk of damage to boot _________________ - Moxie
Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:46 am

HowdyPartner Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:48 pm Posts: 658	Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! aye, the mortar need love. i am sad juggernaut.
Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:57 am

AFireInAsa Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:10 pm Posts: 1069	Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! From my experience watching heavies on my team, it needs no change at all. I literally just saw someone rack up an easy 33k credits just by performing base d and sticking around the enemy gen for a while. _________________ Fire Monomaniac eSport's Chaser Twitch.tv Stream (Tribes and Smite) Twitter(@AFireInAsa)
Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:02 am

ArchangelXv1 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm Posts: 1600 Location: Oahu,Hawaii	Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching! Did you play as heavy? Got any vid? Any experience playing it? Some screencaps of his score? I'd like to see that. _________________ Communication is a very worthy thing. Fool's Epic T1 Movie
Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:04 am

HowdyPartner Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:48 pm Posts: 658	Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching! ArchangelXv1 wrote: Did you play as heavy? Got any vid? Any experience playing it? Some screencaps of his score? I'd like to see that. i'll fraps myself later today.
Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:09 am

ArchangelXv1 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm Posts: 1600 Location: Oahu,Hawaii	Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching! Har har. _________________ Communication is a very worthy thing. Fool's Epic T1 Movie
Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:10 am

Immie Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:10 pm Posts: 1310	Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching! "Reload on weapon switch" This is not a new mechanic. Being able to switch before you've reloaded is. Just wait for the reload before you switch and it will be exactly the same as T1/2/V. You kept firing and changing weapons for no reason, then switching back and wondering why the weapon didn't magically reload itself on your back. Was frustrating to watch. Other than that, I agree- less bounce, less arm time, more AoE, more damage. _________________ Sorry but you cannot use search at this time. Please try again in a few minutes.
Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:12 am

HowdyPartner Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:48 pm Posts: 658	Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching! Immie wrote: You kept firing and changing weapons for no reason, then switching back and wondering why the weapon didn't magically reload itself on your back. Was frustrating to watch. That's because it _IS_ frustrating, even for the Jug.
Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:13 am

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MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Tweak Discussion! Updated 3/29/2012

Author

Message

ArchangelXv1

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Oahu,Hawaii

MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Tweak Discussion! Updated 3/29/2012

General Wants:

FIX THE PHYSICS!

It would seem this is the core problem with the mortar at this point in time. Mortars and MIRVs have some strange hard limit/physics which cause them to drop like stones/parachute after a certain time/distance, do not follow what might be considered remotely normal physics. Firing at various angles makes no difference (shots still land in same place) Underpowered and useless against anything not on flat ground. Better off using disks.

And/Or including the following:

- Mortar Range Increase (whether through velocity inheritance, muzzle velocity, etc) [
- Greater Inheritance (Increased to 50% recently)
- Mortar Velocity Increase (Muzzle Velocity) (Increased , is it still enough?)
- Severe Reduction in Arming Distance (ie, 40meters instead of the whatever it is now)
- Elimination of Bounce after a certain distance (less than what it is now)
- Reduction in Fuse Time After Bounce
- Increase Damage to previous comparable Tribes standards
- Implement Mid-Air Mortars
- Implement Explode On Impact for Base Equipment (after a reasonable arming distance)
- Implement MVP Accolade for Artillery Strikes
- Examine Non-Regs regarding fast cappers
- Examine AoE with a possible increase
- Examine Reloading Issues
- Implement Better Shadows for Depth Perception
- Fix Mortar Reloading & Improve Weapon Switching (slight reduction from 6 to 5 seconds last patch)

Recent Comparison Videos by DogmeatX that display the inherit problems of the current mortar:

Older videos to follow:

The video covers the AoE, Knockback, Damage to Equipment, Bounce, Fuse, Momentum/Velocity Inheritance & Weapon Switching problems.

Enjoy my misery. Please, the mortar needs some love.

For an example of previous mortar capability, please see this T2 video:

T2 Mortar Comparison Video

Additional Fail Videos

A Study On Mortar Fail

Heavy vs. hitscan:

Mortar Distance

[/quote]

"Win" Videos

Heavy Loving

Heavy Metal

Heavy Offense

War Machine

MidAir Mortar (Fail Or Win?)

UPDATE:

Another video from yours truly...concentrated on only putting artillery strikes, blue plate specials, and flag defense/recovery. Hardly any regular mortar shots in here, I think maybe 1 or two. It's pretty much long bomb for the win in this vid.

I'll be making another video without music, with only arty strikes due to special request, plus there are some whoppers that just couldn't be fully appreciated at the same time while making it work with the music. Seriously, I had some "holy @#$%" moments yesterday that made me feel like I was playing T2 again.

Enjoy!

Derezzed

Here's another video...as mentioned previously & requested by a few people asking for one that had clearer clips with no music. You've seen these before (well, not all of them), but this shows the setup and art strike much clearer:

The Juggernaught - Part 1: The Art of the Mortar

Weapons Comparison Charts

Take a look also at how the Spinfusor MKD & Mortar stack up against other weapons. Just pure insanity. Credit to Daekesh (if this is wrong, let me know.) Possibly outdated.

Mortar Comparison

Spinfusor MKD Comparison

_________________
Communication is a very worthy thing.

Fool's Epic T1 Movie

Last edited by ArchangelXv1 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:52 am, edited 48 times in total.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:33 am

xxzzy

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:50 pm
Posts: 7

Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE!

Yeah - it's hard to hit people with a mortar shell; and you have the movement penalty of being in heavy armour; at the moment the destructive power doesn't seem sufficient to compensate for those disadvantages.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:44 am

Moxieus

Beta Tester

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 485

Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE!

Yea a lot of those should either have outright killed the players or knocked them flying/stopped them dead with a fair chunk of damage to boot

_________________
- Moxie

Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:46 am

HowdyPartner

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 658

Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE!

aye, the mortar need love. i am sad juggernaut. :cry:

Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:57 am

AFireInAsa

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 1069

Re: Heavy Jug - Mortar - 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE!

From my experience watching heavies on my team, it needs no change at all. I literally just saw someone rack up an easy 33k credits just by performing base d and sticking around the enemy gen for a while.

_________________
Fire
Monomaniac eSport's Chaser
Twitch.tv Stream (Tribes and Smite)
Twitter(@AFireInAsa)

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:02 am

ArchangelXv1

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Oahu,Hawaii

Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching!

Did you play as heavy? Got any vid? Any experience playing it? Some screencaps of his score? I'd like to see that.

_________________
Communication is a very worthy thing.

Fool's Epic T1 Movie

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:04 am

HowdyPartner

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 658

Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching!

ArchangelXv1 wrote:

Did you play as heavy? Got any vid? Any experience playing it? Some screencaps of his score? I'd like to see that.

i'll fraps myself later today.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:09 am

ArchangelXv1

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Oahu,Hawaii

Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching!

Har har.

_________________
Communication is a very worthy thing.

Fool's Epic T1 Movie

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:10 am

Immie

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:10 pm
Posts: 1310

Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching!

"Reload on weapon switch"

This is not a new mechanic. Being able to switch before you've reloaded is. Just wait for the reload before you switch and it will be exactly the same as T1/2/V.

You kept firing and changing weapons for no reason, then switching back and wondering why the weapon didn't magically reload itself on your back. Was frustrating to watch.

Other than that, I agree- less bounce, less arm time, more AoE, more damage.

_________________
Sorry but you cannot use search at this time. Please try again in a few minutes.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:12 am

HowdyPartner

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 658

Re: 12 Min Fail Video - MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Wpn Rld Switching!

Immie wrote:

You kept firing and changing weapons for no reason, then switching back and wondering why the weapon didn't magically reload itself on your back. Was frustrating to watch.

That's because it _IS_ frustrating, even for the Jug.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:13 am

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MORTAR NEEDS LOVE! Tweak Discussion! Updated 3/29/2012