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Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010
Author	Message
BlackMink Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:08 pm Posts: 226 Location: Michigan USA	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 Wepdesign, I am not here to debate and nit-pick with you. I got tired of that kind of thing years ago in other MMO forums. I posted in this thread simply to give honest feedback to HiRez reguarding these recent changes to Repair arms. I still maintain that this nerf was uncalled for. They finally fixed this long standing robotics problem, only to nerf the bonuses on our arms right back down, and they took the sensor down with it. Maybe if I explain it this way: I am of the stance that repair arms (and consequently our turrets) were under-performing before 1.35, due to this bug. When it was fixed in 1.35, we were finally seeing the numbers we always should have. Base damage + repair arm + other damage bonuses, were finally adding up to the turret damage that we should have had all along. And then a week after fixing us, they nerf us back down to 'underperforming' levels. I could write a good long post about the strengths and weaknesses of turrets, and why I feel this way, but I doubt the effort would accomplish anything. I am certainly not the only Robotics player around here who feels the class needs to be brought up in performance, and fixing this long standing bug should have been a first step in the right direction for the class.
Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:34 pm

Melechesh Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:02 pm Posts: 8	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 So does anyone know how often Raids happen now? It used to be once an hour. From observations yesterday, it's not even every 3 hours. It would be nice if we had some sort of COUNTDOWN clock above the warning lights so people can plan ahead. I love playing the Raids and only PvP to pass the time between them. Please please please make something that gives us an indication ahead of time when the Raid happens.
Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:44 am

Andur Beta Tester Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 7:35 pm Posts: 5835 Location: Spain	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 Then the merc PvP queue will be even more empty when raids happen. Today I witnessed the "active missions" counter go from 14 to 6 as soon as raids began.
Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:54 am

Sansa Beta Tester Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:37 pm Posts: 4237	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 HiRezStew wrote: HiRezStew wrote: I wasn't given a great explanation on the specifics of the bug (I can chase that down and give it to you later). But I was given specific numbers and examples. Here's one. Personal Turret against a helot, no mods, no skills, no focus repair: In 1.3:: 175 + 75 mitigated = 250 In 1.35:: 175 + 75 mitigate = 250 Post Hot Fix: 175 + 75 mitigate = 250 Personal Turret against a helot, no mods, no skills, WITH focus repair: In 1.3:: 232 + 99 mitigated = 331 In 1.35:: 271 + 116 mitigated = 387 Post Hot Fix: = 245+105 mitigated = 350 % change from 1.3 to Post-Hot Fix: +5.7% A few more specifics: Prior to 1.35, turrets and drones were performing ALL buffs (including those on base items with no mods and no skills) incorrectly -- which is to say using the wrong value for the base damage. The reason was that, underlying all of our damage values, we have something we call a "generational system". This is effectively a multiplier that is applied universally to weapon damage and health. In the case of turrets and drones in 1.3 and before, the wrong multiplier was being applied (or more correctly, no multiplier was being applied). The effect was that only a fraction of the buff was being applied. The most important thing to note was that the incorrect value was being applied even if no other modifiers were on the device. That is why a PT with right-click Focus Repair did 331 damage in 1.3 and 387 damage in 1.35. Our adjustment of the buff was to account for the fact that the buff is now using the right base damage value when being applied (and thus needed to be lower to apply the same damage). We kept damage post buff a little higher than it was in 1.3 but much closer to the 1.3 value than the 1.35 value. Prior to 1.3, everything worked b/c I tested it (the only thing that didn't work was the 2nd sensor buff skill, which was fixed in 1.3). In 1.3 is when things got messed up, I know b/c I tested it on test server and reported it. In 1.35 you fixed it so it worked again like before 1.3 like it was supposed to. Then you nerfed. I still don't get it and think it's crap a nerf was applied to a class before a proper explanation was given. It also still doesn't account for the fact that some turrets in 1.35 were doing a lot of damage with a sensor and others were not. My turret is still killing people so I don't care any more.
Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:21 am

bodr Beta Tester Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:51 pm Posts: 233	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 Sansa wrote: LOL this is what I am trying to say and failing miserably. Before 1.3, the 55% damage buff worked correctly (I know b/c I tested). In 1.3, the 55% damage buff wasn't applied correctly for some reason and damage was lower when right-clicking than it should have been. I reported this on forums with the math when testing on test server for 1.3, but can't find the link b/c they removed 1.3 testing section on forums. So in 1.35, they fixed it so it did apply the 55% damage buff correctly again. It was working as intended, just like before 1.3. So now they have nerfed it I assume b/c they thought the 55% damage buff was too much now that it stacks with pet damage mods. This is indeed a nerf b/c of the pet damage mods, just like Canucck deduced earlier in the thread. Stew's numbers are fine, they just left out the pre-1.3 numbers. 55% buff worked before 1.3, for some reason it was less than 55% in 1.3, they fixed it back to pre-1.3 in 1.35 so the 55% damage buff worked again, then tonight they patched it to reduce the damage buff to 40%. So even though they are saying "you are doing more damage when right-clicking than 1.3", you are doing LESS damage than before 1.3 (if you don't use pet damage mods). Since they nerfed this due to pet damage mods, it is unfair to people like me that don't use pet damage mods to have a turret that does less damage when right-clicking than when the game started (pre-1.3). Hopefully now that I've clarified in detail it makes more sense. It's not the end of the world, but HiRez should have explained this much better. Tnx Sansa for best explain. After this: why only robo offhand(s) nerfed? In 1.3 all classes take more dmg/coldowns/duration to offhands. Now rigthclickeded ddrddd (40%+17%) = 1.2 rigthclickeded (+55%) without mods! HiRez plan: nerf all and go back to 1.2 in 1.55? _________________ Last edited by bodr on Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:11 am

zulfarak Alpha Tester Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:11 pm Posts: 2035	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 Just delete my robo and give me a 50 recon so i can make people cry with DD's. _________________
Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:49 am

bodr Beta Tester Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:51 pm Posts: 233	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 zulfarak wrote: Just delete my robo and give me a 50 recon so i can make people cry with DD's. I have 50 meleecon. And after nerf i go to kill turrets for robo cry xD _________________
Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:05 am

samuelbarney Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:42 am Posts: 283 Location: ur moms house	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 HiRezStew wrote: A hot fix is scheduled to be deployed later today, July 30. Players will pick up a small patch via Steam that updates the client to the required version. However, the changes will not go into full effect until the patch is deployed server-side later in the day. We will update this thread when this occurs. The changes are: 1) The loot tables and run times on RAID missions have been adjusted to give better loot but to run slightly less often. 2) Backend changes to improve client-side memory utilization in some cases. 3) The Global Agenda Trial now ends at Level 12 instead of Level 15, and modifications have been made to prevent users from accepting new Missions in the Open Zone once the cap is met. 4) The following balance chances have been made. This changes were made to adjust for the impact of a bug fix that was introduced in Version 1.35. This bug fix had the result of increasing the damage buff to deployables on some devices. The values below return the devices to slightly above their pre-1.35 state. Reduce damage buff on Focus Repair from 20%/55% to 15%/40% for left and right click repair, respectively. Reduce damage buff on ARC Repair from 40% to 30% on both firing modes. Reduce damage buff on Sensor from 20% to 15%. Thats some bull you guys are killing the robo class its not enough that this game has a freakin crash in most matches now u hav ava crashes/pve/pvp/etc/etc/etc ppl q for DA and get pvp 4man premade or constant connection problems when ur connected w/ T1 or slow gameplay w/ a sick ass system i run the best and i dont hav any problems w/ games except this one most of the time i cant even f)(&(^&(%&^ log in bucket of ** i say.... _________________
Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:34 am

samuelbarney Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:42 am Posts: 283 Location: ur moms house	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 I have known about he AC vs PT crap for a while but its like you guys don't care at all i never heard about it being fixed or being worked on. now your making to were our turrets go down even easier its hard enough trying to be one of the only true engineer specs left but now your nerfing us to next thing you know you will hav a bunch of 12yr old virgins playing this game cause its frkning *** get the epicness back into the game and fix this crap dont nerf us. _________________
Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:38 am

samuelbarney Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:42 am Posts: 283 Location: ur moms house	Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010 bodr wrote: zulfarak wrote: Just delete my robo and give me a 50 recon so i can make people cry with DD's. I have 50 meleecon. And after nerf i go to kill turrets for robo cry xD dude ur a traitor!!!!! watch they nerf ur melee next just like they nerf'd all the epics after 1.3 they tease u then backdoor f*** u _________________
Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:39 am

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Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

Author

Message

BlackMink

Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:08 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Michigan USA

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

Wepdesign, I am not here to debate and nit-pick with you. I got tired of that kind of thing years ago in other MMO forums.

I posted in this thread simply to give honest feedback to HiRez reguarding these recent changes to Repair arms. I still maintain that this nerf was uncalled for. They finally fixed this long standing robotics problem, only to nerf the bonuses on our arms right back down, and they took the sensor down with it.

Maybe if I explain it this way:

I am of the stance that repair arms (and consequently our turrets) were under-performing before 1.35, due to this bug. When it was fixed in 1.35, we were finally seeing the numbers we always should have. Base damage + repair arm + other damage bonuses, were finally adding up to the turret damage that we should have had all along. And then a week after fixing us, they nerf us back down to 'underperforming' levels.

I could write a good long post about the strengths and weaknesses of turrets, and why I feel this way, but I doubt the effort would accomplish anything. I am certainly not the only Robotics player around here who feels the class needs to be brought up in performance, and fixing this long standing bug should have been a first step in the right direction for the class.

Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:34 pm

Melechesh

Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:02 pm
Posts: 8

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

So does anyone know how often Raids happen now? It used to be once an hour. From observations yesterday, it's not even every 3 hours. It would be nice if we had some sort of COUNTDOWN clock above the warning lights so people can plan ahead. I love playing the Raids and only PvP to pass the time between them. Please please please make something that gives us an indication ahead of time when the Raid happens.

Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:44 am

Andur

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 7:35 pm
Posts: 5835
Location: Spain

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

Then the merc PvP queue will be even more empty when raids happen.

Today I witnessed the "active missions" counter go from 14 to 6 as soon as raids began.

Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:54 am

Sansa

Beta Tester

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 4237

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

HiRezStew wrote:

I wasn't given a great explanation on the specifics of the bug (I can chase that down and give it to you later). But I was given specific numbers and examples. Here's one.

Personal Turret against a helot, no mods, no skills, no focus repair:

In 1.3:: 175 + 75 mitigated = 250
In 1.35:: 175 + 75 mitigate = 250
Post Hot Fix: 175 + 75 mitigate = 250

Personal Turret against a helot, no mods, no skills, WITH focus repair:

In 1.3:: 232 + 99 mitigated = 331
In 1.35:: 271 + 116 mitigated = 387
Post Hot Fix: = 245+105 mitigated = 350

% change from 1.3 to Post-Hot Fix: +5.7%

A few more specifics:

Prior to 1.35, turrets and drones were performing ALL buffs (including those on base items with no mods and no skills) incorrectly -- which is to say using the wrong value for the base damage.

The reason was that, underlying all of our damage values, we have something we call a "generational system". This is effectively a multiplier that is applied universally to weapon damage and health.

In the case of turrets and drones in 1.3 and before, the wrong multiplier was being applied (or more correctly, no multiplier was being applied). The effect was that only a fraction of the buff was being applied.

The most important thing to note was that the incorrect value was being applied even if no other modifiers were on the device.

That is why a PT with right-click Focus Repair did 331 damage in 1.3 and 387 damage in 1.35.

Our adjustment of the buff was to account for the fact that the buff is now using the right base damage value when being applied (and thus needed to be lower to apply the same damage). We kept damage post buff a little higher than it was in 1.3 but much closer to the 1.3 value than the 1.35 value.

Prior to 1.3, everything worked b/c I tested it (the only thing that didn't work was the 2nd sensor buff skill, which was fixed in 1.3). In 1.3 is when things got messed up, I know b/c I tested it on test server and reported it. In 1.35 you fixed it so it worked again like before 1.3 like it was supposed to. Then you nerfed. I still don't get it and think it's crap a nerf was applied to a class before a proper explanation was given. It also still doesn't account for the fact that some turrets in 1.35 were doing a lot of damage with a sensor and others were not. My turret is still killing people so I don't care any more.

Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:21 am

bodr

Beta Tester

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:51 pm
Posts: 233

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

Sansa wrote:

LOL this is what I am trying to say and failing miserably. Before 1.3, the 55% damage buff worked correctly (I know b/c I tested).

In 1.3, the 55% damage buff wasn't applied correctly for some reason and damage was lower when right-clicking than it should have been. I reported this on forums with the math when testing on test server for 1.3, but can't find the link b/c they removed 1.3 testing section on forums.

So in 1.35, they fixed it so it did apply the 55% damage buff correctly again. It was working as intended, just like before 1.3.

So now they have nerfed it I assume b/c they thought the 55% damage buff was too much now that it stacks with pet damage mods. This is indeed a nerf b/c of the pet damage mods, just like Canucck deduced earlier in the thread. Stew's numbers are fine, they just left out the pre-1.3 numbers. 55% buff worked before 1.3, for some reason it was less than 55% in 1.3, they fixed it back to pre-1.3 in 1.35 so the 55% damage buff worked again, then tonight they patched it to reduce the damage buff to 40%. So even though they are saying "you are doing more damage when right-clicking than 1.3", you are doing LESS damage than before 1.3 (if you don't use pet damage mods). Since they nerfed this due to pet damage mods, it is unfair to people like me that don't use pet damage mods to have a turret that does less damage when right-clicking than when the game started (pre-1.3). Hopefully now that I've clarified in detail it makes more sense. It's not the end of the world, but HiRez should have explained this much better.

Tnx Sansa for best explain.
After this:
why only robo offhand(s) nerfed?
In 1.3 all classes take more dmg/coldowns/duration to offhands.

Now rigthclickeded ddrddd (40%+17%) = 1.2 rigthclickeded (+55%) without mods!
HiRez plan: nerf all and go back to 1.2 in 1.55?

_________________

Last edited by bodr on Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:11 am

zulfarak

Alpha Tester

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 2035

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

Just delete my robo and give me a 50 recon so i can make people cry with DD's.

_________________

Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:49 am

bodr

Beta Tester

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:51 pm
Posts: 233

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

zulfarak wrote:

Just delete my robo and give me a 50 recon so i can make people cry with DD's.

I have 50 meleecon. And after nerf i go to kill turrets for robo cry xD

_________________

Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:05 am

samuelbarney

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 283
Location: ur moms house

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

HiRezStew wrote:

A hot fix is scheduled to be deployed later today, July 30.

Players will pick up a small patch via Steam that updates the client to the required version. However, the changes will not go into full effect until the patch is deployed server-side later in the day. We will update this thread when this occurs.

The changes are:

1) The loot tables and run times on RAID missions have been adjusted to give better loot but to run slightly less often.

2) Backend changes to improve client-side memory utilization in some cases.

3) The Global Agenda Trial now ends at Level 12 instead of Level 15, and modifications have been made to prevent users from accepting new Missions in the Open Zone once the cap is met.

4) The following balance chances have been made. This changes were made to adjust for the impact of a bug fix that was introduced in Version 1.35. This bug fix had the result of increasing the damage buff to deployables on some devices. The values below return the devices to slightly above their pre-1.35 state.

Reduce damage buff on Focus Repair from 20%/55% to 15%/40% for left and right click repair, respectively.
Reduce damage buff on ARC Repair from 40% to 30% on both firing modes.
Reduce damage buff on Sensor from 20% to 15%.

Thats some bull you guys are killing the robo class its not enough that this game has a freakin crash in most matches now u hav ava crashes/pve/pvp/etc/etc/etc ppl q for DA and get pvp 4man premade or constant connection problems when ur connected w/ T1 or slow gameplay w/ a sick ass system i run the best and i dont hav any problems w/ games except this one most of the time i cant even f*)(*&(*^*&(%*&^ log in bucket of *** i say....

_________________

Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:34 am

samuelbarney

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 283
Location: ur moms house

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

I have known about he AC vs PT crap for a while but its like you guys don't care at all i never heard about it being fixed or being worked on. now your making to were our turrets go down even easier its hard enough trying to be one of the only true engineer specs left but now your nerfing us to next thing you know you will hav a bunch of 12yr old virgins playing this game cause its frkning *** get the epicness back into the game and fix this crap dont nerf us.

_________________

Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:38 am

samuelbarney

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:42 am
Posts: 283
Location: ur moms house

Re: Hot Fix Notes: July 30, 2010

bodr wrote:

zulfarak wrote:

Just delete my robo and give me a 50 recon so i can make people cry with DD's.

I have 50 meleecon. And after nerf i go to kill turrets for robo cry xD

dude ur a traitor!!!!! watch they nerf ur melee next just like they nerf'd all the epics after 1.3 they tease u then backdoor f*** u

_________________

Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:39 am