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Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]
Author	Message
steamswitch Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:33 pm Posts: 66	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] The gen could be a bit easier to get to. It currently has only one way in, which can be blocked by a FF and some other def. I think gen room should extend underground a bit, or raise ceiling (with flagstand area), and be a bit wider. It also needs more directions to kill the gen from.
Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:58 pm

pro-logic Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:01 pm Posts: 437	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] I don't think you should be able to drop a strike on the flag while the gen is up... put in a hatch in a different location on the roof that's permanently opened, but with gen up - no strike. Gen down, hatch opens, flag goes up. Strikes are evil. It's really nice to finally see a map that will require team skill to get the flag... none of this cowboy capper / suicide brude s*** form the other maps. There will be plenty of whining that 1 guy can't kill 8 defenders and take out the gen on this map... but they'll get over it.
Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:43 pm

demontrace Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:48 am Posts: 37	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] Very pleased with the map. There definitely needs to be more indoor flag maps. I'm also wondering how this one is going to be cycled into CTF rotations, as it's different enough from the other maps, that I could see everyone quitting just to get more of this map. I've always hated the memorized flag cap routes that are so easy for pathfinders to pull off, and makes defense almost seem pointless. On this map, defense has so much more value, it makes it much more enjoyable. Also I don't see the problem with the forcefield being able to cover the generator. This game has had overpowered offense for so long, it's really not going to be a problem to take out the forcefield and the generator together, if the offense really wants it. And dedicated technicians for the lower room means less defending the flag room, outside, or being a part of offense. It's a trade off, and I like it as it is currently. Basically, this map is restoring my faith in this game. I still think jetpacks need tweaking, but that's another issue altogether. More indoor flag maps please!!
Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:32 pm

OldeWolfe Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:46 am Posts: 113	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] Anyone know the map id for Permafrost? _________________
Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:15 am

ZestyMordant Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:26 am Posts: 34	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] I love this map and the new game dynamic, good job HiRez! Along with the others I don’t see what the issue is with being able to place a FF in front of the Gen. The FF is easily taken down by heavy’s, I doubt you’d ever see a situation where two Tech’s would camp behind it to keep a FF up while it’s being bombarded. FF’s don’t keep the offence from walking right through the FF and Melee’ing/tossing a grenade or fractal/firing a blast weapon/or using a SMG once through the FF. Any Tech on the inside would be screwed, so to me this is a non-issue. Your time would be better spent on reducing the amount of places an offence Jugg can effortlessly lob a MIRV or mortar round at the gen. I assume the raider can do the same with the grenade launcher? Which brings me to my next point, does the Gen room really need 6 entrances? Could you maybe remove two of them? The two with the catwalks the lead down from the flag room would be my choice to remove, leave the catwalks themselves however. The Gen room could use some “fluff” like crates, large pieces of equipment. Tech’s like to have places other than the floor to place turrets. Base D Sent’s like to have places to hide their Jammer Packs inside the base…. Really this is something overlooked by HiRez that applies to all maps. Someone suggested moving the flag stand back farther to it line it up with the two side doors so that when the Gen is up Llama grabbing isn’t the only option. There’s already two ways to do this, Top to front (which we’ve seen on youtube) and side to front. Side to front was a new for me last night but I saw a Path go in through the side door diagonally, grab the flag and out the front door diagonally without stopping or slowing. Dunno how fast he was going but it was faster than I could react and he did it multiple times. So it wasn’t a lucky one time thing. Also, the inventory station could be a little closer to the base if you ask me. Lastly to echo Tanathryn, what’s up with not being able to place a FF at the front door of the flag room? I haven’t tested it but I assume that means that other deployable like the Tech’s turret can’t be placed there either. You guy need to fix this and quit making it difficult for defense classes to place their deployables. Really, you should be able to place a FF on the flag stand itself. Last edited by ZestyMordant on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:38 pm

Eldiran Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm Posts: 256	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] I really like this map! However, I am experiencing problems when I try to buy a vehicle here. Occasionally when I select a vehicle to buy, the menu will close but nothing will happen. This happens about 50% of the time (so far I have only experienced it on Permafrost). Also, I'd like to suggest placing an INV station near the vehicle station. It can be pretty frustrating to get turned around in the chaos and find you're on the wrong side to restock. Also also, I like the forcefield placement near the gen as it is. It keeps doombringers useful to have around when the gen is up.
Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:43 am

LL-Blu-J Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:14 am Posts: 361	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] First off, the map looks really good cosmetically. I finally got a chance to play a few games on it and have a couple of suggestions. I don't think I ever seen a team successfully get the flag home when the generators were up, it's in a really bad place and almost impossible to get it out against a competent defense, especially in pub games when you can't really organize your offense. I have posted an image on suggestions on how the flag area should look when generators are up. I think this is a good balance, because it gives you a very hard back-to-front route and side routes when the gens are up, however these are still harder routes and it's still very beneficial to take the gens down to get the flag in a better area. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51 ... tions.jpg/ Also, if this change was made, you would need to reverse the walking ramps that are on the sides of the base. The generator is also very easy to defend and can get blocked off with a shield. I think on this type of map the generator needs to be easily destructible, it should be put in the center of the gen room with nothing protecting it. I think with these changes this map would be good to go. _________________ T:A in-game name: LLxBLUxJ
Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:17 pm

OldeWolfe Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:46 am Posts: 113	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] Wull...I kinda like having a map that is favorable to a good D. IMO, every map doesn't have to be favorable to cappers, the adage is: variety is the spice of life. Besides, a well coordinated O will be able to take down the gen and suddenly it becomes a "capper's map" until the gen is repaired. In essence I think you really have two maps in one. _________________
Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:21 pm

Ventrik Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:29 pm Posts: 42	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] Video of the flag bug I mentioned or should I be posting this in bug section? _________________ It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. In-game name: Vuel.
Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:15 pm

Crofe Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:27 pm Posts: 529	Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF] I think people are overestimating how hard it is to cap, you can learn even that route flawlessly eventually so it should be made slower or something. On offense the base felt way to small, like some kid playhouse.
Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:05 am

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Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

Author

Message

steamswitch

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:33 pm
Posts: 66

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

The gen could be a bit easier to get to. It currently has only one way in, which can be blocked by a FF and some other def. I think gen room should extend underground a bit, or raise ceiling (with flagstand area), and be a bit wider. It also needs more directions to kill the gen from.

Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:58 pm

pro-logic

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:01 pm
Posts: 437

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

I don't think you should be able to drop a strike on the flag while the gen is up... put in a hatch in a different location on the roof that's permanently opened, but with gen up - no strike. Gen down, hatch opens, flag goes up.

Strikes are evil.

It's really nice to finally see a map that will require team skill to get the flag... none of this cowboy capper / suicide brude s*** form the other maps.

There will be plenty of whining that 1 guy can't kill 8 defenders and take out the gen on this map... but they'll get over it.

Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:43 pm

demontrace

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 37

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

Very pleased with the map. There definitely needs to be more indoor flag maps. I'm also wondering how this one is going to be cycled into CTF rotations, as it's different enough from the other maps, that I could see everyone quitting just to get more of this map.

I've always hated the memorized flag cap routes that are so easy for pathfinders to pull off, and makes defense almost seem pointless. On this map, defense has so much more value, it makes it much more enjoyable.

Also I don't see the problem with the forcefield being able to cover the generator. This game has had overpowered offense for so long, it's really not going to be a problem to take out the forcefield and the generator together, if the offense really wants it. And dedicated technicians for the lower room means less defending the flag room, outside, or being a part of offense. It's a trade off, and I like it as it is currently.

Basically, this map is restoring my faith in this game. I still think jetpacks need tweaking, but that's another issue altogether.

More indoor flag maps please!!

Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:32 pm

OldeWolfe

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 113

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

Anyone know the map id for Permafrost?

_________________

Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:15 am

ZestyMordant

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:26 am
Posts: 34

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

I love this map and the new game dynamic, good job HiRez!

Along with the others I don’t see what the issue is with being able to place a FF in front of the Gen. The FF is easily taken down by heavy’s, I doubt you’d ever see a situation where two Tech’s would camp behind it to keep a FF up while it’s being bombarded. FF’s don’t keep the offence from walking right through the FF and Melee’ing/tossing a grenade or fractal/firing a blast weapon/or using a SMG once through the FF. Any Tech on the inside would be screwed, so to me this is a non-issue.

Your time would be better spent on reducing the amount of places an offence Jugg can effortlessly lob a MIRV or mortar round at the gen. I assume the raider can do the same with the grenade launcher?

Which brings me to my next point, does the Gen room really need 6 entrances? Could you maybe remove two of them? The two with the catwalks the lead down from the flag room would be my choice to remove, leave the catwalks themselves however.

The Gen room could use some “fluff” like crates, large pieces of equipment. Tech’s like to have places other than the floor to place turrets. Base D Sent’s like to have places to hide their Jammer Packs inside the base…. Really this is something overlooked by HiRez that applies to all maps.

Someone suggested moving the flag stand back farther to it line it up with the two side doors so that when the Gen is up Llama grabbing isn’t the only option. There’s already two ways to do this, Top to front (which we’ve seen on youtube) and side to front. Side to front was a new for me last night but I saw a Path go in through the side door diagonally, grab the flag and out the front door diagonally without stopping or slowing. Dunno how fast he was going but it was faster than I could react and he did it multiple times. So it wasn’t a lucky one time thing.

Also, the inventory station could be a little closer to the base if you ask me.

Lastly to echo Tanathryn, what’s up with not being able to place a FF at the front door of the flag room? I haven’t tested it but I assume that means that other deployable like the Tech’s turret can’t be placed there either. You guy need to fix this and quit making it difficult for defense classes to place their deployables. Really, you should be able to place a FF on the flag stand itself.

Last edited by ZestyMordant on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:38 pm

Eldiran

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm
Posts: 256

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

I really like this map!

However, I am experiencing problems when I try to buy a vehicle here. Occasionally when I select a vehicle to buy, the menu will close but nothing will happen. This happens about 50% of the time (so far I have only experienced it on Permafrost).

Also, I'd like to suggest placing an INV station near the vehicle station. It can be pretty frustrating to get turned around in the chaos and find you're on the wrong side to restock.

Also also, I like the forcefield placement near the gen as it is. It keeps doombringers useful to have around when the gen is up.

Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:43 am

LL-Blu-J

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:14 am
Posts: 361

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

First off, the map looks really good cosmetically. I finally got a chance to play a few games on it and have a couple of suggestions.

I don't think I ever seen a team successfully get the flag home when the generators were up, it's in a really bad place and almost impossible to get it out against a competent defense, especially in pub games when you can't really organize your offense. I have posted an image on suggestions on how the flag area should look when generators are up. I think this is a good balance, because it gives you a very hard back-to-front route and side routes when the gens are up, however these are still harder routes and it's still very beneficial to take the gens down to get the flag in a better area.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51 ... tions.jpg/

Also, if this change was made, you would need to reverse the walking ramps that are on the sides of the base.

The generator is also very easy to defend and can get blocked off with a shield. I think on this type of map the generator needs to be easily destructible, it should be put in the center of the gen room with nothing protecting it.

I think with these changes this map would be good to go.

_________________
T:A in-game name: LLxBLUxJ

Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:17 pm

OldeWolfe

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 113

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

Wull...I kinda like having a map that is favorable to a good D. IMO, every map doesn't have to be favorable to cappers, the adage is: variety is the spice of life. Besides, a well coordinated O will be able to take down the gen and suddenly it becomes a "capper's map" until the gen is repaired. In essence I think you really have two maps in one.

_________________

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:21 pm

Ventrik

Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 42

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

Video of the flag bug I mentioned or should I be posting this in bug section?

_________________
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
In-game name: Vuel.

Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:15 pm

Crofe

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:27 pm
Posts: 529

Re: Map Feedback - Permafrost [CTF]

I think people are overestimating how hard it is to cap, you can learn even that route flawlessly eventually so it should be made slower or something.

On offense the base felt way to small, like some kid playhouse.

Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:05 am