Tribes:Ascend Forums

My proposed changes to health regen
Author	Message
raptorak Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 am Posts: 1271	My proposed changes to health regen Dear all, I find myself intensely disliking the current regen mechanic, as do many others, however I feel that the mechanic can be modified to a point where it is acceptable. Currently, 1 point of damage is enough to a) reset the regen timer, and b) stop regen, which gives a massive advantage to players who enjoy long range spamming with automatics, and trolling low HP players with sniper rifles. What I propose is to keep the 15 second regen timer, but with a twist. For every 100 HP of damage done, a second is added to the regen timer, for a maximum of 15 seconds. This would mean that if a Brute with 2,800 HP took 1,400 damage, went undamaged for 14 seconds, and then got hit for 100 damage, he would have to wait an extra second for regen to kick in (so he would have waited for 16 seconds in total). Whilst regenning, I propose that damage done is minused from the maximum total regen HP of the class, so said brute with 2,800 HP, who took a medium spinfusor to the face whilst regenning, would only regen up to a maximum of 1,990 HP (medium spin MA is 910 damage). Taking damage after a full or partial regen will yet again reset the 15 second timer. Any thoughts? P.S. Other than this mechanic, I much prefered the active regen ideas suggested by many others (basically medkits) that should heal 1,000 hp on activation, be uninterruptable, and be collectible from ammo nuggets. Passive regen can still exist, but with the timer set to 30-45 seconds as per the lightweight perk.
Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:22 am

pro-logic Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:01 pm Posts: 437	Re: My proposed changes to health regen I like your idea. Although, like most I'd prefer medkits...
Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:36 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4809 Location: NA East	Re: My proposed changes to health regen What you're proposing would basically buff passive regen, promoting more hide and heal under the guise of making non-auto's more effective against it. The problem is, autos aren't just good for interrupting regen because of rapid fire and ease of hit, but because of effective range. Typically a coward trying to duck out to regen is running away from you. This is the main problem with passive regen. Not that it's too easy to interrupt, but that it doesn't promote aggressive play. I think the main problem is HiRez doesn't want another button for noobs to worry about binding. Health kits would require a bit of adjustment to the whole item and health system, which is pretty busted as is. Both active regen, and health kits would require the "heal me" button. I still think it just need to go to active with both a cool down and warm up timer. Like an 18s cool down, with a 5s warm up timer, so that the warm up timer resets each time you get hit. The cool down timer only resets when you use it. If the warm up timer goes triple without getting hit, it could initiate a regen passively, and still leave your active available. I also am not sure why remote INV stations don't initiate regen. Health kits would be rough with no viable indoor remote INV, unless of course every nugget had the kit whether you used it or not. In either event, it requires a lot of tweaks to the health system, including revamping the repairs matrix so the repair tool is actually a viable healing option for players. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:48 am

raptorak Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 am Posts: 1271	Re: My proposed changes to health regen pro-logic wrote: I like your idea. Although, like most I'd prefer medkits... Yes medkits would be great - as would 3 weapons per class, 35% faster weapon switch as standard (delete quickdraw), balanced and slightly larger maps, higher gravity, stronger jets.... etc Seriously we need Steamworks support and a bunch of guys to get together and make Tribes Ascend: Challenge Pro Mode!
Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:48 am

raptorak Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 am Posts: 1271	Re: My proposed changes to health regen -AEnubis- wrote: What you're proposing would basically buff passive regen, promoting more hide and heal under the guise of making non-auto's more effective against it. The problem is, autos aren't just good for interrupting regen because of rapid fire and ease of hit, but because of effective range. Typically a coward trying to duck out to regen is running away from you. This is the main problem with passive regen. Not that it's too easy to interrupt, but that it doesn't promote aggressive play. I think the main problem is HiRez doesn't want another button for noobs to worry about binding. Health kits would require a bit of adjustment to the whole item and health system, which is pretty busted as is. Both active regen, and health kits would require the "heal me" button. I still think it just need to go to active with both a cool down and warm up timer. Like an 18s cool down, with a 5s warm up timer, so that the warm up timer resets each time you get hit. The cool down timer only resets when you use it. If the warm up timer goes triple without getting hit, it could initiate a regen passively, and still leave your active available. I also am not sure why remote INV stations don't initiate regen. Health kits would be rough with no viable indoor remote INV, unless of course every nugget had the kit whether you used it or not. In either event, it requires a lot of tweaks to the health system, including revamping the repairs matrix so the repair tool is actually a viable healing option for players. The most frustrating thing I face is being shot with automatics from long range and having no effective counter, imagine a juggernaut in Raindance, and almost 12 (5 of whom are TCN) players on defense all spamming rockwind at you from standing positions, 2 snipers and then being chased down by one or two level 8's who repeatedly skim you for 50 dmg from miles away. TBF since I am often the ONLY guy in the opposition half doing base raip doesn't help - but like you I would rather active regen. My only issue with YOUR proposed changes (which I like far better than mine) is that they are probably unrealistic within the scope of what HiRez will ever bring themselves to do (since OMG you have to press an extra button! lol), but then having said that I imagine they would think the same of my changes since that would involve something far more complicated than the current "ain't broke don't fix it" broken system that ruins the game in so many ways. And we need 3 weapons and 35% weapon switch as standard thx
Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:54 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4809 Location: NA East	Re: My proposed changes to health regen The trick is to find terrain cover, and make them close the distance. I despise hide and heal. I'm okay with a bombardment class, if they are prepared to get harassed in the mid field. If anything, I know it's also annoying for medium classes to exploit and dictate being just outside your effective range. I just don't think regen adjustments is the way to fix this. Heavies should have bullet resistance. Beyond that, BRT is the only class that can't "chip back" so... pull your LMG, and go to town. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:13 am

raptorak Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 am Posts: 1271	Re: My proposed changes to health regen -AEnubis- wrote: The trick is to find terrain cover, and make them close the distance. I despise hide and heal. I'm okay with a bombardment class, if they are prepared to get harassed in the mid field. If anything, I know it's also annoying for medium classes to exploit and dictate being just outside your effective range. I just don't think regen adjustments is the way to fix this. Heavies should have bullet resistance. Beyond that, BRT is the only class that can't "chip back" so... pull your LMG, and go to town. Yeh, I have the LMG but try to leave it at home (gets more and more difficult, since most players on Singapore server are at least rank 25+). The main issue is that I average 120 ping nowadays so automatics are still very sketchy, I find that I need at most 70 ping to hit MAs and autos consistently.
Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:22 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4809 Location: NA East	Re: My proposed changes to health regen I lived somewhere once where my average ping was 70ms. I put down shooters and played an MMO for a year. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 am

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raptorak

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 1271

My proposed changes to health regen

Dear all,

I find myself intensely disliking the current regen mechanic, as do many others, however I feel that the mechanic can be modified to a point where it is acceptable.

Currently, 1 point of damage is enough to a) reset the regen timer, and b) stop regen, which gives a massive advantage to players who enjoy long range spamming with automatics, and trolling low HP players with sniper rifles.

What I propose is to keep the 15 second regen timer, but with a twist.

For every 100 HP of damage done, a second is added to the regen timer, for a maximum of 15 seconds.

This would mean that if a Brute with 2,800 HP took 1,400 damage, went undamaged for 14 seconds, and then got hit for 100 damage, he would have to wait an extra second for regen to kick in (so he would have waited for 16 seconds in total).

Whilst regenning, I propose that damage done is minused from the maximum total regen HP of the class, so said brute with 2,800 HP, who took a medium spinfusor to the face whilst regenning, would only regen up to a maximum of 1,990 HP (medium spin MA is 910 damage).

Taking damage after a full or partial regen will yet again reset the 15 second timer.

Any thoughts?

P.S. Other than this mechanic, I much prefered the active regen ideas suggested by many others (basically medkits) that should heal 1,000 hp on activation, be uninterruptable, and be collectible from ammo nuggets. Passive regen can still exist, but with the timer set to 30-45 seconds as per the lightweight perk.

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:22 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4809
Location: NA East

Re: My proposed changes to health regen

What you're proposing would basically buff passive regen, promoting more hide and heal under the guise of making non-auto's more effective against it.

The problem is, autos aren't just good for interrupting regen because of rapid fire and ease of hit, but because of effective range. Typically a coward trying to duck out to regen is running away from you. This is the main problem with passive regen. Not that it's too easy to interrupt, but that it doesn't promote aggressive play.

I think the main problem is HiRez doesn't want another button for noobs to worry about binding. Health kits would require a bit of adjustment to the whole item and health system, which is pretty busted as is. Both active regen, and health kits would require the "heal me" button.

I still think it just need to go to active with both a cool down and warm up timer.

Like an 18s cool down, with a 5s warm up timer, so that the warm up timer resets each time you get hit. The cool down timer only resets when you use it. If the warm up timer goes triple without getting hit, it could initiate a regen passively, and still leave your active available.

I also am not sure why remote INV stations don't initiate regen. Health kits would be rough with no viable indoor remote INV, unless of course every nugget had the kit whether you used it or not. In either event, it requires a lot of tweaks to the health system, including revamping the repairs matrix so the repair tool is actually a viable healing option for players.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:48 am

raptorak

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 1271

Re: My proposed changes to health regen

-AEnubis- wrote:

What you're proposing would basically buff passive regen, promoting more hide and heal under the guise of making non-auto's more effective against it.

The problem is, autos aren't just good for interrupting regen because of rapid fire and ease of hit, but because of effective range. Typically a coward trying to duck out to regen is running away from you. This is the main problem with passive regen. Not that it's too easy to interrupt, but that it doesn't promote aggressive play.

I think the main problem is HiRez doesn't want another button for noobs to worry about binding. Health kits would require a bit of adjustment to the whole item and health system, which is pretty busted as is. Both active regen, and health kits would require the "heal me" button.

I still think it just need to go to active with both a cool down and warm up timer.

Like an 18s cool down, with a 5s warm up timer, so that the warm up timer resets each time you get hit. The cool down timer only resets when you use it. If the warm up timer goes triple without getting hit, it could initiate a regen passively, and still leave your active available.

I also am not sure why remote INV stations don't initiate regen. Health kits would be rough with no viable indoor remote INV, unless of course every nugget had the kit whether you used it or not. In either event, it requires a lot of tweaks to the health system, including revamping the repairs matrix so the repair tool is actually a viable healing option for players.

The most frustrating thing I face is being shot with automatics from long range and having no effective counter, imagine a juggernaut in Raindance, and almost 12 (5 of whom are TCN) players on defense all spamming rockwind at you from standing positions, 2 snipers and then being chased down by one or two level 8's who repeatedly skim you for 50 dmg from miles away.

TBF since I am often the ONLY guy in the opposition half doing base raip doesn't help - but like you I would rather active regen. My only issue with YOUR proposed changes (which I like far better than mine) is that they are probably unrealistic within the scope of what HiRez will ever bring themselves to do (since OMG you have to press an extra button! lol), but then having said that I imagine they would think the same of my changes since that would involve something far more complicated than the current "ain't broke don't fix it" broken system that ruins the game in so many ways.

And we need 3 weapons and 35% weapon switch as standard thx

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:54 am

raptorak

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 1271

Re: My proposed changes to health regen

-AEnubis- wrote:

The trick is to find terrain cover, and make them close the distance.

I despise hide and heal. I'm okay with a bombardment class, if they are prepared to get harassed in the mid field. If anything, I know it's also annoying for medium classes to exploit and dictate being just outside your effective range. I just don't think regen adjustments is the way to fix this. Heavies should have bullet resistance. Beyond that, BRT is the only class that can't "chip back" so... pull your LMG, and go to town.

Yeh, I have the LMG but try to leave it at home (gets more and more difficult, since most players on Singapore server are at least rank 25+). The main issue is that I average 120 ping nowadays so automatics are still very sketchy, I find that I need at most 70 ping to hit MAs and autos consistently.

Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:22 am

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My proposed changes to health regen