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General CaH Feedback
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blackchimes Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:07 am Posts: 1109	Re: General CaH Feedback The spam is not the problem, because: - On Outskirts, it's only one point out of three, so you can hold the two "non-spam" ones and still win the game. - On Raindance, again, there are two very spammable points but there are five total. - On Kata, two out of four points are spammable... which isn't really that big of a deal, if there's too much spam in one just bounce off to the other. Bottom line is, spamming alone won't win you the game on any map, it's just something to let Brutes and Jugs vent off their frustration(As we all know DMBs use their own tears as bullets for their Chaingun so they can't vent)
Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:14 pm

Armydons Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:15 pm Posts: 268	Re: General CaH Feedback On outskirts the other day I heard the orbital siren quite literally every 5 seconds for about a minute straight. It's excessive. Constant orbitals are funny at first but I see myself very quickly tiring of them. Some sort of modifier for the cost of orbitals feels in order based on game type, or even the removal of strikes for this particular game mode (arena as well if that hasn't already happened).
Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:09 pm

Molybdane Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm Posts: 220	Re: General CaH Feedback HiRezKate wrote: The point of having some points be indoors is it offers protection from strikes, so you'll not be likely to see every indoor point moved outside. However, I'm still willing to negotiate on some of them. I've been keeping an eye on the Raindance thread, and it sounds like a majority would like to points moved out of the single-entrance gen rooms to on top of the base. That sounds doable, since there are still the flanking tower points that are interior spaces, albeit smaller. As far as I'm concerned, the only troublesome indoor objective are those 2 on the Rainddance map. I am okay with all the others. HiRezKate wrote: It sounds like the biggest frustration for everyone though is how quickly points can be captured. How would people feel about raising the capture point from 5 seconds to ~15? Someone else suggested 10 seconds, which seems fine to me. But I wonder if everyone is in agreement on the meaning of that little sentence that says: "capturing a point is too quick and easy." It could mean that an objective starts generating points too soon and that base assets start shooting too soon. But can it also mean that all you need to do to capture a points is to pass over it? If that is the actual problem, some redesign is in order. I haven't read everything on the forun, so I can't tell at a glance. It would seem to be a good idea to experiment with objectives that are blocked on one side by a wall. Such objectives can't be passed over and captured so easily and may be more definsible.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:14 pm

Molybdane Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm Posts: 220	Re: General CaH Feedback Armydons wrote: On outskirts the other day I heard the orbital siren quite literally every 5 seconds for about a minute straight. It's excessive. Constant orbitals are funny at first but I see myself very quickly tiring of them. Some sort of modifier for the cost of orbitals feels in order based on game type, or even the removal of strikes for this particular game mode (arena as well if that hasn't already happened). This problem is caused by the excessive kill count inherent to the map and the fact that the credits can't be spent on verhicles. it is not the game mode perse which causes orbital chain-bombardment.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:16 pm

wooser Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm Posts: 695	Re: General CaH Feedback Why the hell do you keep strikes in the game if its limiting maps to indoor areas with low ceilings
Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:45 pm

Safaex Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:55 pm Posts: 354 Location: Sweden	Re: General CaH Feedback I support increased point capping time, maybe you should start with 10 seconds though. I also suggest that if a point previosuly owned by your team is being capped and you walk over it; you cancel the capping and it reverts to your teams point instantaneously. This would probably not work with 15 seconds though. I also suggest that when a point has been touched and a change is progressing, it cannot be effected in any way for 3 seconds. This would prevent two guys from just walking over it over and over and over again instead of duking it out first.
Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:11 pm

nutcrackr Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:14 am Posts: 131 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: nutcrackr	Re: General CaH Feedback So what's the decision behind the spread of capture points for each map, 3, 4 and 5 for Outskirts, Kata and Raindance respectively. Just testing to see which is more applicable on the move forward? I like capture and hold, it's good fun and lets me move around the map or defend an objective. Katabatic is probably the most fun but I like the 3 maps for different reasons. Outskirts 3P has 10+ people are fighting over the mid point - usually more. The action is extremely compressed, more than any other mode / map combination. It also has a lot of heavy classes, Mortars and Disco nades woohoo. The room is fine and large, would it not be better to add another point to the map? Maybe the ruins that are parallel to the action line? It gets pretty crazy in there and yeah its fun sometimes but maybe too crazy? Raindance is a weird one, the points inside the bases are very hard to get and I'm finding myself just deciding not to risk it and try to take the others. That and they are pretty far away from the midfield. Although I must admit I should really be waiting for my teammates the other maps don't need quite that much coordination. Could you not just open the grate on top of the base? I thought about putting the point ON TOP of the base but I think the idea is to have the action in the base, which is justified because it looks very nice. Near the end of rounds in CaH, the orbital strikes come thick and fast, so quick to rack up credits and you don't need really use it to upgrade anything. Not necessarily game breaking but Orby after Orby gets pretty ridiculous. Overall it's a good mode and some tweaks will ensure I'll be playing it just as much as TDM or CTF.
Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:25 am

ALDMW Beta Tester Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:09 am Posts: 447	Re: General CaH Feedback Outskirts: Point A is fun, but in a kinda madness way. Its way too easy to spam mortars and grenades in there and most of the time its a sea of green disco and mist. Dunno how you could solve it. The other 2 nodes are good, though the smaller of the 2 (without the courtyard) could do with some strike protection shields for the tunnel ends where the flag is. nutcrackr wrote: Near the end of rounds in CaH, the orbital strikes come thick and fast, so quick to rack up credits and you don't need really use it to upgrade anything. Not necessarily game breaking but Orby after Orby gets pretty ridiculous. This ^
Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:44 pm

RootbeerAlamode Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:01 pm Posts: 1538 Steam Gamer Name: D-Hearts	Re: General CaH Feedback Spawn points need a lot of work, its silly that you can repsawn in the same place as enemies. Each team needs it own side, where they spawn initially. Using Kata ans example, each team spawns on the side with their base. Then as they capture more points, they can respawn there as well. So if you hold either of the towers, thats a new potential point. However, the enemy teams intial spawn point is never available as a spawn point. So say for example, if DS controls all 4 points on kata, they can spawn near their base, or in either tower, but not in the blood eagle base. This would keep prevent the game from being about spamming from point to point, and more about actual capture and hold. It would also give defenders a slight advantage, as well as make retaking your own initial point a lot easier. This would allow comebacks to be possible. _________________ 100% Inheritance, 100% Intuitive. Inheritance Demonstration [video] Tips for Aiming with 100% [video]
Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:27 pm

nutcrackr Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:14 am Posts: 131 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: nutcrackr	Re: General CaH Feedback I rescind my suggested changes to Raindance. I think it's great how it is. The base points are really meant to be tough so its satisfying risk / reward gameplay. Cruise outside or risk going into a base and then holding it. Breaks it up really nicely and isn't super hard to take due to the action frequency.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:56 am

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General CaH Feedback

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blackchimes

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 1109

Re: General CaH Feedback

The spam is not the problem, because:
- On Outskirts, it's only one point out of three, so you can hold the two "non-spam" ones and still win the game.
- On Raindance, again, there are two very spammable points but there are five total.
- On Kata, two out of four points are spammable... which isn't really that big of a deal, if there's too much spam in one just bounce off to the other.

Bottom line is, spamming alone won't win you the game on any map, it's just something to let Brutes and Jugs vent off their frustration(As we all know DMBs use their own tears as bullets for their Chaingun so they can't vent)

Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:14 pm

Armydons

Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:15 pm
Posts: 268

Re: General CaH Feedback

On outskirts the other day I heard the orbital siren quite literally every 5 seconds for about a minute straight. It's excessive. Constant orbitals are funny at first but I see myself very quickly tiring of them.

Some sort of modifier for the cost of orbitals feels in order based on game type, or even the removal of strikes for this particular game mode (arena as well if that hasn't already happened).

Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:09 pm

Molybdane

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm
Posts: 220

Re: General CaH Feedback

HiRezKate wrote:

The point of having some points be indoors is it offers protection from strikes, so you'll not be likely to see every indoor point moved outside. However, I'm still willing to negotiate on some of them. I've been keeping an eye on the Raindance thread, and it sounds like a majority would like to points moved out of the single-entrance gen rooms to on top of the base. That sounds doable, since there are still the flanking tower points that are interior spaces, albeit smaller.

As far as I'm concerned, the only troublesome indoor objective are those 2 on the Rainddance map. I am okay with all the others.

HiRezKate wrote:

It sounds like the biggest frustration for everyone though is how quickly points can be captured. How would people feel about raising the capture point from 5 seconds to ~15?

Someone else suggested 10 seconds, which seems fine to me.

But I wonder if everyone is in agreement on the meaning of that little sentence that says: "capturing a point is too quick and easy." It could mean that an objective starts generating points too soon and that base assets start shooting too soon. But can it also mean that all you need to do to capture a points is to pass over it? If that is the actual problem, some redesign is in order. I haven't read everything on the forun, so I can't tell at a glance.

It would seem to be a good idea to experiment with objectives that are blocked on one side by a wall. Such objectives can't be passed over and captured so easily and may be more definsible.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:14 pm

Molybdane

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:23 pm
Posts: 220

Re: General CaH Feedback

Armydons wrote:

This problem is caused by the excessive kill count inherent to the map and the fact that the credits can't be spent on verhicles. it is not the game mode perse which causes orbital chain-bombardment.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:16 pm

wooser

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 695

Re: General CaH Feedback

Why the hell do you keep strikes in the game if its limiting maps to indoor areas with low ceilings

Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:45 pm

Safaex

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:55 pm
Posts: 354
Location: Sweden

Re: General CaH Feedback

I support increased point capping time, maybe you should start with 10 seconds though. I also suggest that if a point previosuly owned by your team is being capped and you walk over it; you cancel the capping and it reverts to your teams point instantaneously. This would probably not work with 15 seconds though.

I also suggest that when a point has been touched and a change is progressing, it cannot be effected in any way for 3 seconds. This would prevent two guys from just walking over it over and over and over again instead of duking it out first.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:11 pm

nutcrackr

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:14 am
Posts: 131
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: nutcrackr

Re: General CaH Feedback

So what's the decision behind the spread of capture points for each map, 3, 4 and 5 for Outskirts, Kata and Raindance respectively. Just testing to see which is more applicable on the move forward?

I like capture and hold, it's good fun and lets me move around the map or defend an objective. Katabatic is probably the most fun but I like the 3 maps for different reasons.

Outskirts 3P has 10+ people are fighting over the mid point - usually more. The action is extremely compressed, more than any other mode / map combination. It also has a lot of heavy classes, Mortars and Disco nades woohoo. The room is fine and large, would it not be better to add another point to the map? Maybe the ruins that are parallel to the action line? It gets pretty crazy in there and yeah its fun sometimes but maybe too crazy?

Raindance is a weird one, the points inside the bases are very hard to get and I'm finding myself just deciding not to risk it and try to take the others. That and they are pretty far away from the midfield. Although I must admit I should really be waiting for my teammates the other maps don't need quite that much coordination. Could you not just open the grate on top of the base? I thought about putting the point ON TOP of the base but I think the idea is to have the action in the base, which is justified because it looks very nice.

Near the end of rounds in CaH, the orbital strikes come thick and fast, so quick to rack up credits and you don't need really use it to upgrade anything. Not necessarily game breaking but Orby after Orby gets pretty ridiculous.

Overall it's a good mode and some tweaks will ensure I'll be playing it just as much as TDM or CTF.

Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:25 am

ALDMW

Beta Tester

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:09 am
Posts: 447

Re: General CaH Feedback

Outskirts:

Point A is fun, but in a kinda madness way. Its way too easy to spam mortars and grenades in there and most of the time its a sea of green disco and mist. Dunno how you could solve it. The other 2 nodes are good, though the smaller of the 2 (without the courtyard) could do with some strike protection shields for the tunnel ends where the flag is.

nutcrackr wrote:

Near the end of rounds in CaH, the orbital strikes come thick and fast, so quick to rack up credits and you don't need really use it to upgrade anything. Not necessarily game breaking but Orby after Orby gets pretty ridiculous.

This ^

Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:44 pm

RootbeerAlamode

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:01 pm
Posts: 1538
Steam Gamer Name: D-Hearts

Re: General CaH Feedback

Spawn points need a lot of work, its silly that you can repsawn in the same place as enemies.

Each team needs it own side, where they spawn initially. Using Kata ans example, each team spawns on the side with their base.
Then as they capture more points, they can respawn there as well. So if you hold either of the towers, thats a new potential point.
However, the enemy teams intial spawn point is never available as a spawn point.

So say for example, if DS controls all 4 points on kata, they can spawn near their base, or in either tower, but not in the blood eagle base.

This would keep prevent the game from being about spamming from point to point, and more about actual capture and hold. It would also give defenders a slight advantage, as well as make retaking your own initial point a lot easier. This would allow comebacks to be possible.

_________________
100% Inheritance, 100% Intuitive.
Inheritance Demonstration [video]
Tips for Aiming with 100% [video]

Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:27 pm

nutcrackr

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:14 am
Posts: 131
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: nutcrackr

Re: General CaH Feedback

I rescind my suggested changes to Raindance. I think it's great how it is. The base points are really meant to be tough so its satisfying risk / reward gameplay. Cruise outside or risk going into a base and then holding it. Breaks it up really nicely and isn't super hard to take due to the action frequency.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:56 am