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Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]
Author	Message
Yutty Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:58 pm Posts: 563	Re: Why change the position of flags on Temple Ruins? (video) yes no one was complaining about it, no need to change it. Would be nice to have it back in next patch. _________________ Care to sponsor a gamer? https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=B98Q74J6ABRYL&lc=CA&item_name=Yutty%27s%20Dream%20Fund&item_number=sponsor&currency_code=USD&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donateCC_LG%2egif%3aNonHosted
Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:03 pm

wooser Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm Posts: 695	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] The conduits are appreciated Could you just plain get rid of the indoor spawn? I don't think anyone likes spawning on flat ground. I like wobbers idea of moving the pillars, but an alrernative would be just breaking off the bottom part of the pillar that made doing diagonal runs in the off centre position impossible. Have it laying on the floor somewhere and call it battle damage like the other huge broken pillar. I still want either slides or the HAVOC cause people are still streaming in 1 by 1 on a gigantic map with huge sightlines and getting picked off like nothing. Even if it was just people spawning in the same area, all on the top of the back area of the base, no slides or anything like that, I'd be glad. Means people start with much needed height in order to get to the enemy base quicker (probably a good thing with how defendable it is) and a single area for spawning would mean better chances of grouping with teammates on an already huge map. Also I don't know what you could do about people getting onto the cliffs in the middle of the map, but perhaps make them easily accessible instead of just blocking them off? Add a tunnel that leads up through them, possibly even with a conduit inside? Just an idea. They'd kinda be a lot like the towers on katabatic if getting up there was more obviously intentional.
Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:35 pm

Tarqon Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:20 pm Posts: 144	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] I like the centered flag. Forcing people into sideroutes actually opens up a lot of possibilities for chasing/cutting off cappers, which is one of the strengths of this map. If people want a route that gets home faster there is always the difficult to execute front-to-front, which appropriately rewards execution. I think in terms of playability though one big reason people don't like playing it is simply how brown it is. If you could brighten it up a little that would make it more pleasant at least.
Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:00 pm

eureus Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:16 pm Posts: 599	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] I think we need the backroute back. The un-nerfed spawn positions are great for most capping routes again. I like the music on this stage!
Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:41 pm

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] Tarqon wrote: I like the centered flag. Forcing people into sideroutes actually opens up a lot of possibilities for chasing/cutting off cappers, which is one of the strengths of this map. If people want a route that gets home faster there is always the difficult to execute front-to-front, which appropriately rewards execution. I think in terms of playability though one big reason people don't like playing it is simply how brown it is. If you could brighten it up a little that would make it more pleasant at least. I think one of the pillars should be broken in some way, just to open up another potential route even if it is harder and involves avoiding debris, as is, the map is quite defense heavy and the new flag position does completely remove atleast two routes from the map, the only routes that aren't side on or front, which are very easy to defend. The only map that offers even less routes is probably Raindance, having a wall directly behind the flag. And I agree about the brown-ness, people enjoy more bright maps, when Bella Omega was first released it was such a grey and boring map, and it got lots of complaints due to that until it was eventually brightened with more texture, background art etc... until it looked nice. Too bad the map as a whole was never successful. I can see the same thing happening to Temple Ruins, whenever I play it in game I always see multiple people asking to just get the map over with and complaining about it without giving specifics. The map itself to me isn't that bad, it has potential. I'd like to see it brighter and more aesthetically pleasing for a start, then maybe tinker around with hill positions trying to make the map more fluent. And I think the Gen rooms are too big and complicated, at most you get 16 v 16 and out of them maybe 2 - 4 will defend or attack the gen, it doesn't need to be that big and deep, I think it should be simplified to the approximate size of the Katabatic or Sunstar gen rooms which are good sizes. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:47 pm

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] Tarqon wrote: I like the centered flag. Forcing people into sideroutes actually opens up a lot of possibilities for chasing/cutting off cappers, which is one of the strengths of this map. If people want a route that gets home faster there is always the difficult to execute front-to-front, which appropriately rewards execution. I think in terms of playability though one big reason people don't like playing it is simply how brown it is. If you could brighten it up a little that would make it more pleasant at least. you need a fast back to front to keep the Hof honest. that stand is already like threading a needle, and without that route a single HOF can lock down the loop route and side to sides. most techs drop a turret in the loop as well just to deadstop anyone who tries it add that route back in, and then the hof needs to actively protect at least one route instead of letting their ff's do it for them honestly i like to see 3-4 different angles to attack the stand from as a minimum, and the stand as designed isn't open enough to allow taking out that route and it's opposite angle mate. it just makes life easier for the defense on a defense heavy map _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:19 pm

wooser Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm Posts: 695	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] Wobberjockey wrote: honestly i like to see 3-4 different angles to attack the stand from as a minimum, and the stand as designed isn't open enough to allow taking out that route and it's opposite angle mate. it just makes life easier for the defense on a defense heavy map This. The problem with cappers on this map is down to chasing, grabbing the flag itself can actually be pretty d*** tough with a decent DMB and a tech to support him.
Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:28 pm

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] Well, it already has a "front to front" in the form of the ramp which few people ever use. I think in part because the front approaches aren't that great. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:41 pm

Doughboy7077 Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:25 pm Posts: 12	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] Just posting to say I agree with those wanting the old off-centered flag position back. On a map with so much surrounding the flag, the more routes the better.
Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:46 pm

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF] Doughboy7077 wrote: Just posting to say I agree with those wanting the old off-centered flag position back. On a map with so much surrounding the flag, the more routes the better. just to clarify, i, and i suspect several other posters, don't care about the exact x,y,z of the flag. what we want is the back to front route to the flag back. i really don't care whether that is accomplished by moving the flag, or moving other elements. _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:00 pm

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Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

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Yutty

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:58 pm
Posts: 563

Re: Why change the position of flags on Temple Ruins? (video)

yes no one was complaining about it, no need to change it. Would be nice to have it back in next patch.

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Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:03 pm

wooser

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 695

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

The conduits are appreciated

Could you just plain get rid of the indoor spawn? I don't think anyone likes spawning on flat ground.

I like wobbers idea of moving the pillars, but an alrernative would be just breaking off the bottom part of the pillar that made doing diagonal runs in the off centre position impossible. Have it laying on the floor somewhere and call it battle damage like the other huge broken pillar.

I still want either slides or the HAVOC cause people are still streaming in 1 by 1 on a gigantic map with huge sightlines and getting picked off like nothing. Even if it was just people spawning in the same area, all on the top of the back area of the base, no slides or anything like that, I'd be glad. Means people start with much needed height in order to get to the enemy base quicker (probably a good thing with how defendable it is) and a single area for spawning would mean better chances of grouping with teammates on an already huge map.

Also I don't know what you could do about people getting onto the cliffs in the middle of the map, but perhaps make them easily accessible instead of just blocking them off? Add a tunnel that leads up through them, possibly even with a conduit inside? Just an idea. They'd kinda be a lot like the towers on katabatic if getting up there was more obviously intentional.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:35 pm

Tarqon

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:20 pm
Posts: 144

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

I like the centered flag. Forcing people into sideroutes actually opens up a lot of possibilities for chasing/cutting off cappers, which is one of the strengths of this map. If people want a route that gets home faster there is always the difficult to execute front-to-front, which appropriately rewards execution.

I think in terms of playability though one big reason people don't like playing it is simply how brown it is. If you could brighten it up a little that would make it more pleasant at least.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:00 pm

eureus

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:16 pm
Posts: 599

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

I think we need the backroute back. The un-nerfed spawn positions are great for most capping routes again.
I like the music on this stage!

Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:41 pm

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

Tarqon wrote:

I think one of the pillars should be broken in some way, just to open up another potential route even if it is harder and involves avoiding debris, as is, the map is quite defense heavy and the new flag position does completely remove atleast two routes from the map, the only routes that aren't side on or front, which are very easy to defend. The only map that offers even less routes is probably Raindance, having a wall directly behind the flag.

And I agree about the brown-ness, people enjoy more bright maps, when Bella Omega was first released it was such a grey and boring map, and it got lots of complaints due to that until it was eventually brightened with more texture, background art etc... until it looked nice. Too bad the map as a whole was never successful.

I can see the same thing happening to Temple Ruins, whenever I play it in game I always see multiple people asking to just get the map over with and complaining about it without giving specifics.

The map itself to me isn't that bad, it has potential. I'd like to see it brighter and more aesthetically pleasing for a start, then maybe tinker around with hill positions trying to make the map more fluent. And I think the Gen rooms are too big and complicated, at most you get 16 v 16 and out of them maybe 2 - 4 will defend or attack the gen, it doesn't need to be that big and deep, I think it should be simplified to the approximate size of the Katabatic or Sunstar gen rooms which are good sizes.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
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Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:47 pm

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

Tarqon wrote:

you need a fast back to front to keep the Hof honest.

that stand is already like threading a needle, and without that route a single HOF can lock down the loop route and side to sides.
most techs drop a turret in the loop as well just to deadstop anyone who tries it

add that route back in, and then the hof needs to actively protect at least one route instead of letting their ff's do it for them

honestly i like to see 3-4 different angles to attack the stand from as a minimum, and the stand as designed isn't open enough to allow taking out that route and it's opposite angle mate.

it just makes life easier for the defense on a defense heavy map

_________________

original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig
The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:19 pm

wooser

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 695

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

Wobberjockey wrote:

honestly i like to see 3-4 different angles to attack the stand from as a minimum, and the stand as designed isn't open enough to allow taking out that route and it's opposite angle mate.

it just makes life easier for the defense on a defense heavy map

This. The problem with cappers on this map is down to chasing, grabbing the flag itself can actually be pretty d*** tough with a decent DMB and a tech to support him.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:28 pm

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

Well, it already has a "front to front" in the form of the ramp which few people ever use. I think in part because the front approaches aren't that great.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:41 pm

Doughboy7077

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 12

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

Just posting to say I agree with those wanting the old off-centered flag position back. On a map with so much surrounding the flag, the more routes the better.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:46 pm

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: Map feedback - Temple Ruins [CTF]

Doughboy7077 wrote:

Just posting to say I agree with those wanting the old off-centered flag position back. On a map with so much surrounding the flag, the more routes the better.

just to clarify, i, and i suspect several other posters, don't care about the exact x,y,z of the flag.

what we want is the back to front route to the flag back. i really don't care whether that is accomplished by moving the flag, or moving other elements.

_________________

original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig
The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:00 pm