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Reward Offensive CTF Play More
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Myrdraal Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:05 pm Posts: 871	Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More D stacks still reflect how easy it is to cap. If you have 8 guys chasing and 4-6 on stand like you guys say you see every map though I have yet to see it, it means they have at most 4 offense. Yet they still cap. _________________ Tribes:Welfare. Where every map is designed to give away grabs to poor cappers so they can feel special.
Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:15 am

tehjester Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:11 pm Posts: 450	Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More Many of the games I have been involved with in the last few days in the high level servers have been really good, tough, hard fought games, sometimes 5-3, sometimes 2-1. Myrdraal wrote: D stacks still reflect how easy it is to cap. If you have 8 guys chasing and 4-6 on stand like you guys say you see every map though I have yet to see it, it means they have at most 4 offense. Yet they still cap. I see a lot of teams crashing the enemy stand with 3-4 heavies at a time, and that pretty much wreaks havoc with any defense. Last edited by tehjester on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:39 am

superteddy Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:04 am Posts: 60	Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More There are 3 problem : - Kills are way to much rewarding - Kill defender should be accolade near the enemy flag (as for the defense) - Friendly fire should be activated Like this the game would be way different as the pseudo TDM the flag we got most of the time now with caper that go through mortat / grenades / orbital. You'll see less : - suicide bomber - no brainer mortar flag stand spammer - disc sniper - gene camper Defense will no longer stack on flag but roam near stand or in mid-field. Maps are big, but most of the time, only 100 m around the flag is used because that's where the $$$/sec is the higher.
Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:05 am

Lesteriuse Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:39 pm Posts: 1749 Location: Zagreb, Croatia	Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More I'll copypasta my reply from another thread, I think it should apply to this thread as well: I think you mixed up cause and effect here. Defence stacking isn't the cause, it's the effect. Defence simply has to be stacked with all the orbital spam and the ease of jug O, and it doesn't help that it either takes a) a more than moderately skilled roaming D soldier or b) more than 1 teammate to get rid of an average lmg jug with his obscenely good mortaring positions that are incredibly easy to defend and reach on most maps. Lately, I almost stopped going offence completely, it's simply too easy. I don't remember the last time I didn't top the scoreboard after going HO(even without the LMG). Also, it doesn't help that your usual pub defence(even if stacked) is distracted extremely easy, I've seen a single raider draw 5+ people off the stand, leaving me to defend the flag from the deluge of cappers by myself. It also doesn't help I've managed to snatch the flag before several defenders' eyes by merely spamming nitrons and discs on the stand on my approach to the flag. I wasn't even going over 250. The only defence stacks that are actually effective are senitels and good soldiers on flag. Everything else is simply either destroyed or juggled too easy. tldr; most crucial positions on defence are countered extremely easily and with great efficiency, causing defence stacks sentinels are an exception to this rule, but they're a different beast entirely. _________________ A thread on performance bottlenecks in the engine and what needs to be optimised My blueplate/mid-air nitron montage
Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:48 pm

Myrdraal Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:05 pm Posts: 871	Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More Lesteriuse wrote: average lmg jug with his obscenely good mortaring positions that are incredibly easy to defend and reach on most maps. I have been pointing that out for ages. Super high giant fell trees in the middle of of tartarus? WTF is that? Mortaring base stand from the super high hill with tower in Kata? Who are you kidding? Plateaus on Drydock that you have no jet power to reach directly and have to slowly get around to climb? Who's frigging idea? Far middle moutain on Temple? The frack? Megatower on Sunstar? Thank you for the shield, but I still hate you. Combined with opened stands and 350 routes, there is a definitive frack you defense feeling on almost every map. T:A's O to D balance is 2 v 10. Or a snipers triad. Then you're invulnerable. CTF is nothing even remotely close to being balanced. _________________ Tribes:Welfare. Where every map is designed to give away grabs to poor cappers so they can feel special.
Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:56 pm

jherak Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:13 pm Posts: 297	Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More Whitewhale I played tribes 1 and I played tribes 2 although I sunk much more time into Tribes 2. Tribes one had fast capping, but it was still really hard for people to be cowboys because of how turrets worked and shielded assets etc. Gen importance played a huge role in this. Tribes 2 it was even harder to cowboy, as breaking the enemy defense took a good amount of coordination. So yes this gotta go fast mentality has to go, I hate that vehicles are nerfed just so the cowboys will stop crying because that is the only thing that can stop their 4 second back to front route. I personally love turtling and love when games are hard fought and defense on both teams is good, and the matches go the entire time limit and sometimes into overtime. I love this and Tribes 2 had a lot of it. Sadly it is more rare to come across good games in Tribes:ascend. _________________ Tribes:Ascend Player ID - Pulse
Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:01 pm

Lindkvist Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:05 am Posts: 31	Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More Meremoth wrote: I'll keep it brief. 99% of the time it's easier to play defense in CTF pubs. Not only is it easier to rack up kills and get more streaks, but you are rewarded more points for each kill.... Stopped reading there. This is the main problem with CTF on pubs, people play for kills, not flags Remove points and badges related to kill/death ratio COMPLETELY, up the points given for flag defense/offense. But the mode would ofcourse die completely.
Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:30 pm

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Reward Offensive CTF Play More

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Myrdraal

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:05 pm
Posts: 871

Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More

D stacks still reflect how easy it is to cap. If you have 8 guys chasing and 4-6 on stand like you guys say you see every map though I have yet to see it, it means they have at most 4 offense. Yet they still cap.

_________________
Tribes:Welfare. Where every map is designed to give away grabs to poor cappers so they can feel special.

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:15 am

tehjester

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:11 pm
Posts: 450

Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More

Many of the games I have been involved with in the last few days in the high level servers have been really good, tough, hard fought games, sometimes 5-3, sometimes 2-1.

Myrdraal wrote:

I see a lot of teams crashing the enemy stand with 3-4 heavies at a time, and that pretty much wreaks havoc with any defense.

Last edited by tehjester on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:39 am

superteddy

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:04 am
Posts: 60

Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More

There are 3 problem :
- Kills are way to much rewarding
- Kill defender should be accolade near the enemy flag (as for the defense)
- Friendly fire should be activated

Like this the game would be way different as the pseudo TDM the flag we got most of the time now with caper that go through mortat / grenades / orbital.

You'll see less :
- suicide bomber
- no brainer mortar flag stand spammer
- disc sniper
- gene camper

Defense will no longer stack on flag but roam near stand or in mid-field.

Maps are big, but most of the time, only 100 m around the flag is used because that's where the $$$/sec is the higher.

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:05 am

Lesteriuse

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:39 pm
Posts: 1749
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More

I'll copypasta my reply from another thread, I think it should apply to this thread as well:

I think you mixed up cause and effect here.

Defence stacking isn't the cause, it's the effect. Defence simply has to be stacked with all the orbital spam and the ease of jug O, and it doesn't help that it either takes a) a more than moderately skilled roaming D soldier or b) more than 1 teammate to get rid of an average lmg jug with his obscenely good mortaring positions that are incredibly easy to defend and reach on most maps.

Lately, I almost stopped going offence completely, it's simply too easy. I don't remember the last time I didn't top the scoreboard after going HO(even without the LMG). Also, it doesn't help that your usual pub defence(even if stacked) is distracted extremely easy, I've seen a single raider draw 5+ people off the stand, leaving me to defend the flag from the deluge of cappers by myself.

It also doesn't help I've managed to snatch the flag before several defenders' eyes by merely spamming nitrons and discs on the stand on my approach to the flag. I wasn't even going over 250.

The only defence stacks that are actually effective are senitels and good soldiers on flag. Everything else is simply either destroyed or juggled too easy.

tldr; most crucial positions on defence are countered extremely easily and with great efficiency, causing defence stacks

sentinels are an exception to this rule, but they're a different beast entirely.

_________________

A thread on performance bottlenecks in the engine and what needs to be optimised
My blueplate/mid-air nitron montage

Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:48 pm

Myrdraal

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:05 pm
Posts: 871

Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More

Lesteriuse wrote:

average lmg jug with his obscenely good mortaring positions that are incredibly easy to defend and reach on most maps.

I have been pointing that out for ages. Super high giant fell trees in the middle of of tartarus? WTF is that? Mortaring base stand from the super high hill with tower in Kata? Who are you kidding? Plateaus on Drydock that you have no jet power to reach directly and have to slowly get around to climb? Who's frigging idea? Far middle moutain on Temple? The frack? Megatower on Sunstar? Thank you for the shield, but I still hate you.

Combined with opened stands and 350 routes, there is a definitive frack you defense feeling on almost every map. T:A's O to D balance is 2 v 10. Or a snipers triad. Then you're invulnerable. CTF is nothing even remotely close to being balanced.

_________________
Tribes:Welfare. Where every map is designed to give away grabs to poor cappers so they can feel special.

Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:56 pm

jherak

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:13 pm
Posts: 297

Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More

Whitewhale I played tribes 1 and I played tribes 2 although I sunk much more time into Tribes 2. Tribes one had fast capping, but it was still really hard for people to be cowboys because of how turrets worked and shielded assets etc. Gen importance played a huge role in this. Tribes 2 it was even harder to cowboy, as breaking the enemy defense took a good amount of coordination.

So yes this gotta go fast mentality has to go, I hate that vehicles are nerfed just so the cowboys will stop crying because that is the only thing that can stop their 4 second back to front route.

I personally love turtling and love when games are hard fought and defense on both teams is good, and the matches go the entire time limit and sometimes into overtime. I love this and Tribes 2 had a lot of it. Sadly it is more rare to come across good games in Tribes:ascend.

_________________
Tribes:Ascend Player ID - Pulse

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:01 pm

Lindkvist

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:05 am
Posts: 31

Re: Reward Offensive CTF Play More

Meremoth wrote:

I'll keep it brief.

99% of the time it's easier to play defense in CTF pubs. Not only is it easier to rack up kills and get more streaks, but you are rewarded more points for each kill....

Stopped reading there.
This is the main problem with CTF on pubs, people play for kills, not flags

Remove points and badges related to kill/death ratio COMPLETELY, up the points given for flag defense/offense.
But the mode would ofcourse die completely.

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:30 pm

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Reward Offensive CTF Play More