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TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!
Author	Message
faramir Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:25 pm Posts: 533 Location: Marseille, France	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! DogmeatX wrote: Funny, previously T1,T2 didn't have rank/match making and overall from experience I'd say those pub games were generally better/more teamplay than Ascend ones even with matchmaking. Here's why (I think): those games were designed from the ground up with teamplay in mind. This one is not. Exactly... Team Oriented Player on a not team oriented game... With Tribes Ascend little things that are counter productive: - no shielding on base assets, you needed teamwork to take them down. - no targeting laser, what a good way of non verbal communication it was... pinpointing the crap that bother you as a flag carrier so the fatties can wipe everything. - no acknowledgeable commands... being unable to locate the teammate that want to receive the enemy flag is FRUSTRATING. - me me me me me oriented vehicles. - scoring system... that push players to counter productive behaviors. _________________ Fabrice Roux a Tribes 1/2 veteran from southern France Faramir[TOP] turret farmer in T1 Renegades/Shifter/Base - T2 Base/Classic Maker of the Faramir Tribes 2 script pack (50 of the best Tribes 2 scripts) I gave up on Tribes Ascend on 2012/09/04.
Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:22 am

DogmeatX Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:13 am Posts: 1259	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! CreativeConstraints wrote: While T:A does lack some features (VGS highlighting, command circuit), you have to remember that T1/T2 are pretty old games (T2c was released what, a year down the road from launch least?), and thus most of the playerbase, even the bad players, would have a decent amount of experience on "how to play the game". T:A by comparsion is still very much a "new" game, meaning drawing direct comparsions isn't that fair for the later at this point in time. It's also worth mentioning that while there was no matchmaking per se, players eventually by their own choice would usually start to gravitate towards servers with somewhat similarly skilled people, building small mini-communities in the process. T2 classic did come along later but even before then T2 base and T1 before that had many aspects which were designed with the team in mind (not the player) Faramir's touched on a few examples, vehicles which were designed for multiple occupants (compare the tanks) things like targeting laser which was useless to the individual and only for team use, the whole way Ascend basically rewards deathmatching/killing, no team pool items (turrets for examples).. map/open flag designs... and a whole bunch of other things I could give a list of. But I know you're experienced from those days so don't need go into the details T:A is new granted but really there aren't the mechanics or encouragement in place for teamwork. It plays more like Unreal Tournament in some ways, I suppose that shouldn't be too surprising given the direction H-R have taken (mass appeal lower common denominator, go for money mode) To me personally T2/T1 were about the team first, with individual skill being rewards in itself. The feel I've had for most of Ascend time is basically it's the player first, team aspects are incidental/addons. I really am firmly convinced now Hi-Rez basically catering more to lone wolf casual players than team guys.. even the XP system shows that, the guy with the highest score on your side wins the most XP - pure lone wolf catering right there.
Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:56 am

VIChiefIV Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am Posts: 223	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! While there's no question that stupid people will still be around at higher levels it's a given that the matchmaking is an improvement over the old situation. If only because gold/platinum etc players can no longer get a million easy kills vs level 5 bronze newbies in a single game. While I certainly was annoyed by some moronic teammates in past games during these last few days I definitely noticed a higher degree of organization towards flag defense etc than prior to the matchmaking update. It is by no means yet where it should be but there's a steady increase visible if you manage to play sufficient games to notice it. _________________ Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc) The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-
Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:29 am

MajorKong_ Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:37 pm Posts: 505 Location: London - EU	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! Pre-patch - Worstest Post-patch - Bestest Post-tweaks - Mediocrest, but I guess there were too many bugs or something for the plat only servers in all the regions This has been public service announcement from the MajorKong academy for the contemptuous acknowledgment of the obvious.
Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:15 am

ManandMachine Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:56 pm Posts: 633 Location: In a van down by the river.	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! Nice essays. Yeah, 4 on 4 games are a blast. Really. _________________ I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.
Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:02 am

VIChiefIV Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am Posts: 223	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! Well may I suggest parking your van elsewhere then? It's just a matter of time before the higher tiers will be filled with more people and the subsequent likelyhood of 3 vs 3 games will decrease rapidly as a result. _________________ Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc) The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-
Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:07 am

RasdenFasden Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:19 am Posts: 67	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! I personally blame the levelling, a lot of generdefending and stuff comes from people who want to max out their exp gain, even if such lame and useless behaviour doesn't even give them more exp.
Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:32 am

Lunia Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:27 pm Posts: 754	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! RasdenFasden wrote: I personally blame the levelling, a lot of generdefending and stuff comes from people who want to max out their exp gain, even if such lame and useless behaviour doesn't even give them more exp. Only base XP affects your leveling speed, which is only affected by playtime. So generdefending and getting 100000 credits will get you just as much level (rank) XP as someone who was AFK and joined at the same time.
Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:38 am

DiamondTear Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:09 pm Posts: 20	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! Interesting how some people still bother to pollute topics with irrelevant T2 comparisons even after 1000 posts. I came to the forums to thank hi-rez for the new match-making. It's making the game much more fun (lvl 30). I'm sure there's a sweet spot you can hit with filling up the servers and still having high ranked people. As for the color of you rank and performance... if I could choose my team, I'd fill it with lvl 25-30 players. They seem to know what they're doing and they try hard too. Lower than that and they don't know what to do, but higher than 30 and you get quite a few players who aren't playing to win.
Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:43 am

SkepticTA Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm Posts: 3062	Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL! There was game etiquette in T2 because it was the same 50 people playing every day. _________________ (AHK) T:A Physics Profiler
Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:18 am

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TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

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Message

faramir

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Marseille, France

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

DogmeatX wrote:

Funny, previously T1,T2 didn't have rank/match making and overall from experience I'd say those pub games were generally better/more teamplay than Ascend ones even with matchmaking.

Here's why (I think): those games were designed from the ground up with teamplay in mind. This one is not.

Exactly... Team Oriented Player on a not team oriented game... With Tribes Ascend little things that are counter productive:
- no shielding on base assets, you needed teamwork to take them down.
- no targeting laser, what a good way of non verbal communication it was... pinpointing the crap that bother you as a flag carrier so the fatties can wipe everything.
- no acknowledgeable commands... being unable to locate the teammate that want to receive the enemy flag is FRUSTRATING.
- me me me me me oriented vehicles.
- scoring system... that push players to counter productive behaviors.

_________________
Fabrice Roux a Tribes 1/2 veteran from southern France
Faramir[TOP] turret farmer in T1 Renegades/Shifter/Base - T2 Base/Classic
Maker of the Faramir Tribes 2 script pack (50 of the best Tribes 2 scripts)
I gave up on Tribes Ascend on 2012/09/04.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:22 am

DogmeatX

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:13 am
Posts: 1259

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

CreativeConstraints wrote:

While T:A does lack some features (VGS highlighting, command circuit), you have to remember that T1/T2 are pretty old games (T2c was released what, a year down the road from launch least?), and thus most of the playerbase, even the bad players, would have a decent amount of experience on "how to play the game". T:A by comparsion is still very much a "new" game, meaning drawing direct comparsions isn't that fair for the later at this point in time.

It's also worth mentioning that while there was no matchmaking per se, players eventually by their own choice would usually start to gravitate towards servers with somewhat similarly skilled people, building small mini-communities in the process.

T2 classic did come along later but even before then T2 base and T1 before that had many aspects which were designed with the team in mind (not the player)

Faramir's touched on a few examples, vehicles which were designed for multiple occupants (compare the tanks) things like targeting laser which was useless to the individual and only for team use, the whole way Ascend basically rewards deathmatching/killing, no team pool items (turrets for examples).. map/open flag designs... and a whole bunch of other things I could give a list of.

But I know you're experienced from those days so don't need go into the details

T:A is new granted but really there aren't the mechanics or encouragement in place for teamwork. It plays more like Unreal Tournament in some ways, I suppose that shouldn't be too surprising given the direction H-R have taken (mass appeal lower common denominator, go for money mode)

To me personally T2/T1 were about the team first, with individual skill being rewards in itself. The feel I've had for most of Ascend time is basically it's the player first, team aspects are incidental/addons. I really am firmly convinced now Hi-Rez basically catering more to lone wolf casual players than team guys.. even the XP system shows that, the guy with the highest score on your side wins the most XP - pure lone wolf catering right there.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:56 am

VIChiefIV

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am
Posts: 223

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

While there's no question that stupid people will still be around at higher levels it's a given that the matchmaking is an improvement over the old situation. If only because gold/platinum etc players can no longer get a million easy kills vs level 5 bronze newbies in a single game.

While I certainly was annoyed by some moronic teammates in past games during these last few days I definitely noticed a higher degree of organization towards flag defense etc than prior to the matchmaking update. It is by no means yet where it should be but there's a steady increase visible if you manage to play sufficient games to notice it.

_________________
Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc)
The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-

Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:29 am

MajorKong_

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:37 pm
Posts: 505
Location: London - EU

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

Pre-patch - Worstest
Post-patch - Bestest
Post-tweaks - Mediocrest, but I guess there were too many bugs or something for the plat only servers in all the regions

This has been public service announcement from the MajorKong academy for the contemptuous acknowledgment of the obvious.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:15 am

ManandMachine

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:56 pm
Posts: 633
Location: In a van down by the river.

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

Nice essays.

Yeah, 4 on 4 games are a blast. Really.

_________________
I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:02 am

VIChiefIV

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am
Posts: 223

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

Well may I suggest parking your van elsewhere then?

It's just a matter of time before the higher tiers will be filled with more people and the subsequent likelyhood of 3 vs 3 games will decrease rapidly as a result.

_________________
Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc)
The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-

Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:07 am

RasdenFasden

Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:19 am
Posts: 67

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

I personally blame the levelling, a lot of generdefending and stuff comes from people who want to max out their exp gain, even if such lame and useless behaviour doesn't even give them more exp.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:32 am

Lunia

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:27 pm
Posts: 754

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

RasdenFasden wrote:

I personally blame the levelling, a lot of generdefending and stuff comes from people who want to max out their exp gain, even if such lame and useless behaviour doesn't even give them more exp.

Only base XP affects your leveling speed, which is only affected by playtime. So generdefending and getting 100000 credits will get you just as much level (rank) XP as someone who was AFK and joined at the same time.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:38 am

DiamondTear

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:09 pm
Posts: 20

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

Interesting how some people still bother to pollute topics with irrelevant T2 comparisons even after 1000 posts.

I came to the forums to thank hi-rez for the new match-making. It's making the game much more fun (lvl 30). I'm sure there's a sweet spot you can hit with filling up the servers and still having high ranked people.

As for the color of you rank and performance... if I could choose my team, I'd fill it with lvl 25-30 players. They seem to know what they're doing and they try hard too. Lower than that and they don't know what to do, but higher than 30 and you get quite a few players who aren't playing to win.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:43 am

SkepticTA

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 3062

Re: TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!

There was game etiquette in T2 because it was the same 50 people playing every day.

_________________

(AHK) T:A Physics Profiler

Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:18 am

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TIRED OF THE KIDDIE POOL!