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CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement ::: Shields :::: APPROVED!
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AmoraBunny Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:12 pm Posts: 1474 Location: Japan	CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement ::: Shields :::: APPROVED! With the current slate of CTF, Generator defense is highly useless, unless two conditions are present; 1) Your team is extremely effective with vehicles 2) Your team is extremely effective at base deployable placement (Flag stand barriers, turrets, etc) that the enemy team lacks understanding on how to disrupt. The main issue is the static base defenses - such as on Raindance, three turrets and one sensor. Its frustratingly destroyed by anyone. Previous tribes games had shielding as apart of the turrets, so someone couldn't fire three spinfusors at it and call it GG. This required explosives to bypass, such as a heavy mortar spamming a turret to take it out. In turn, this placed increased strain to keep the generator up and running - since once down, anyone could take out a turret. The proposed idea is to give static defenses an upgraded shield that will take more punishment to destroy and regenerates slowly, with the MK4 regenerating faster than base. Explosive ammo, such as mortar, will have an easier time depleting a shield than a spinfusor. The idea is around this- Base Turret Shield Strength: 3k Regenerate 20 points of shield strength a second (3000/20 = 150/60 = 2.5 minutes to regen full shield strength). Shield absorbs spinfusor shots, with the spinfusor only doing about 30% damage to shielding Shield absorbs mortar blasts but not as effective, with the mortar doing 70% damage to shielding Armor Strength: 5k (Armor being what it currently is; hit points). All damage applied normally Increase via upgrades, the armor, shielding and shield regen rate. Repairing a turret with the repair gun only repairs the armor, not the shield strength Upgrades cause weapon damage to decrease retroactively, with the MK4 shielding absorbing 50% of the blast of a mortar. Again its just theorized numbers and how it could work. This would cause increased reliance on generator defense - the way its meant to be played. Turrets need to have some function other than sitting there to become someone's point increase for 3-4 shotting it, wherein the enemy just camps your base because no turret is up. There needs to be a better approach to defense mechanisms and this could be it. _________________ Desolation's Paradise A fan-fiction between two Tribes vets: AmoraBunny & TheEschaton Last edited by AmoraBunny on Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:44 pm

GNMX Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:18 pm Posts: 32	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement I agree to Shields, not sure about Armour. I actually had the idea just a few minutes ago that to help balance the addition of Shields, they should only be added when the asset is interacted with in any way (either by upgrade or by repair). So teams that ignore defense should NOT get the benefit of shields. Along with the addition of Shields tied to the Generator, it helps pushes teams to be more defensive and make PUGs a bit more bearable.
Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:02 pm

AmoraBunny Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:12 pm Posts: 1474 Location: Japan	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement Well the armor is the base hit points the thing has - I believe base 1 is around 5k, since 3 Brute disks knocks it out. _________________ Desolation's Paradise A fan-fiction between two Tribes vets: AmoraBunny & TheEschaton
Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:16 am

AmoraBunny Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:12 pm Posts: 1474 Location: Japan	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement Bumping - Cause this is a great idea, imo. _________________ Desolation's Paradise A fan-fiction between two Tribes vets: AmoraBunny & TheEschaton
Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:32 pm

Renthrak Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:05 pm Posts: 180	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement Shielded base assets have been suggested before, and quite a few people think they are a good idea. Still waiting to see if anything happens with it.
Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:29 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4813 Location: NA East	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement Yeah, and this idea has gotten next to zero opposition. The only discrepancy is the community hasn't come up with definitive numbers for it. The general idea though, is consistent. Regenerating shields to deter sniping, and solo asset destruction while the gen is up. Your regen numbers should probably add a 0 though. At 1016 DPS vs base structures, 20/s hardly slows the mortar down at all. As such, the effect will also be minimal on the rest as well. Really, I think the regen rate should be 50%+ the DPS of the SLD spinfusor. Probably closer to 75%. I've also suggested putting all the defensive capability upgrades into shielding. Keep the base armor the same, keeping the emphasis on the generator, but increase the shielding capacity or recharge rate (capacity would probably be easier) to make it beneficial. You could also then change the repairs to HP/s because upgraded assets wouldn't take longer to repair. Then repairing teammates and deployables wouldn't be a colossal waste of time. Also the general scaling for upgrades needs to be toned down. MK4 stuff is kind of ridiculous. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:50 am

BlueSpark4 Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:51 pm Posts: 240	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement So, does this mean that on a non-upgraded base turret, 70% of a mortar shell's damage would be inflicted directly to the turret's HP while the remaining 30% are subtracted from its shields? _________________ Pootleshooter wrote: nolakpd504 wrote: Nope and u can also shoot someone in the ass and still get a headshot. That actually makes a lot of sense considering some of the people around here.
Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:02 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4813 Location: NA East	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement Until the shields were depleted, then the damage to the shields would only be as much as they regenerated between rounds. So if the shields regenerated at 300hp/s, and the mortars do 3000dsp, then the split would be 90/10. This would make defending live shields immensely easier, since you'd have to be doing max dps to be effective, and any D would be able to distract you easily to minimize armor damage, and regen the shields, as opposed to you never losing your footing in damaging the asset, unless you died. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:24 pm

OuchMyBoobies Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm Posts: 992 Location: Eastern US	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement votes no; as if we needed another reason to go after the gens. people ignore the flag enough as it is.
Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:29 pm

Daekesh Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:46 am Posts: 3203	Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement I'm not quite sure why you need to change the way the health works - I.e. make it take less damage instead of getting extra health. It seems a bit of a pointless change. And if you're going to force people to use mortars or grenade launchers to take down turrets, they really need not to be on little floating platforms that are extremely hard to land arcing projectiles on. _________________ TTaM, Lumberjack EU Admin and Lead (only?) Coder @ www.GameShrine.org. Tribes: Ascend competition for Europe, Oceania and the US.
Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:40 pm

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CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement ::: Shields :::: APPROVED!

Author

Message

AmoraBunny

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 1474
Location: Japan

CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement ::: Shields :::: APPROVED!

With the current slate of CTF, Generator defense is highly useless, unless two conditions are present;

1) Your team is extremely effective with vehicles
2) Your team is extremely effective at base deployable placement (Flag stand barriers, turrets, etc) that the enemy team lacks understanding on how to disrupt.

The main issue is the static base defenses - such as on Raindance, three turrets and one sensor. Its frustratingly destroyed by anyone. Previous tribes games had shielding as apart of the turrets, so someone couldn't fire three spinfusors at it and call it GG. This required explosives to bypass, such as a heavy mortar spamming a turret to take it out. In turn, this placed increased strain to keep the generator up and running - since once down, anyone could take out a turret.

The proposed idea is to give static defenses an upgraded shield that will take more punishment to destroy and regenerates slowly, with the MK4 regenerating faster than base. Explosive ammo, such as mortar, will have an easier time depleting a shield than a spinfusor. The idea is around this-

Base Turret
Shield Strength: 3k
Regenerate 20 points of shield strength a second (3000/20 = 150/60 = 2.5 minutes to regen full shield strength).
Shield absorbs spinfusor shots, with the spinfusor only doing about 30% damage to shielding
Shield absorbs mortar blasts but not as effective, with the mortar doing 70% damage to shielding

Armor Strength: 5k (Armor being what it currently is; hit points).
All damage applied normally

:arrow:

Increase via upgrades, the armor, shielding and shield regen rate.
:arrow:

Repairing a turret with the repair gun only repairs the armor, not the shield strength
:arrow:

Upgrades cause weapon damage to decrease retroactively, with the MK4 shielding absorbing 50% of the blast of a mortar.

Again its just theorized numbers and how it could work. This would cause increased reliance on generator defense - the way its meant to be played. Turrets need to have some function other than sitting there to become someone's point increase for 3-4 shotting it, wherein the enemy just camps your base because no turret is up.

There needs to be a better approach to defense mechanisms and this could be it.

_________________
Desolation's Paradise
A fan-fiction between two Tribes vets: AmoraBunny & TheEschaton

Last edited by AmoraBunny on Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:44 pm

GNMX

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:18 pm
Posts: 32

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

I agree to Shields, not sure about Armour.

I actually had the idea just a few minutes ago that to help balance the addition of Shields, they should only be added when the asset is interacted with in any way (either by upgrade or by repair). So teams that ignore defense should NOT get the benefit of shields. Along with the addition of Shields tied to the Generator, it helps pushes teams to be more defensive and make PUGs a bit more bearable.

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:02 pm

AmoraBunny

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 1474
Location: Japan

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

Well the armor is the base hit points the thing has - I believe base 1 is around 5k, since 3 Brute disks knocks it out.

_________________
Desolation's Paradise
A fan-fiction between two Tribes vets: AmoraBunny & TheEschaton

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:16 am

AmoraBunny

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 1474
Location: Japan

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

Bumping - Cause this is a great idea, imo.

_________________
Desolation's Paradise
A fan-fiction between two Tribes vets: AmoraBunny & TheEschaton

Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:32 pm

Renthrak

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:05 pm
Posts: 180

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

Shielded base assets have been suggested before, and quite a few people think they are a good idea. Still waiting to see if anything happens with it.

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:29 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4813
Location: NA East

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

Yeah, and this idea has gotten next to zero opposition. The only discrepancy is the community hasn't come up with definitive numbers for it. The general idea though, is consistent.

Regenerating shields to deter sniping, and solo asset destruction while the gen is up.

Your regen numbers should probably add a 0 though. At 1016 DPS vs base structures, 20/s hardly slows the mortar down at all. As such, the effect will also be minimal on the rest as well.

Really, I think the regen rate should be 50%+ the DPS of the SLD spinfusor. Probably closer to 75%.

I've also suggested putting all the defensive capability upgrades into shielding. Keep the base armor the same, keeping the emphasis on the generator, but increase the shielding capacity or recharge rate (capacity would probably be easier) to make it beneficial. You could also then change the repairs to HP/s because upgraded assets wouldn't take longer to repair. Then repairing teammates and deployables wouldn't be a colossal waste of time.

Also the general scaling for upgrades needs to be toned down. MK4 stuff is kind of ridiculous.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:50 am

BlueSpark4

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:51 pm
Posts: 240

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

So, does this mean that on a non-upgraded base turret, 70% of a mortar shell's damage would be inflicted directly to the turret's HP while the remaining 30% are subtracted from its shields?

_________________

Pootleshooter wrote:

nolakpd504 wrote:

Nope and u can also shoot someone in the ass and still get a headshot.

That actually makes a lot of sense considering some of the people around here.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:02 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4813
Location: NA East

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

Until the shields were depleted, then the damage to the shields would only be as much as they regenerated between rounds. So if the shields regenerated at 300hp/s, and the mortars do 3000dsp, then the split would be 90/10.

This would make defending live shields immensely easier, since you'd have to be doing max dps to be effective, and any D would be able to distract you easily to minimize armor damage, and regen the shields, as opposed to you never losing your footing in damaging the asset, unless you died.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:24 pm

OuchMyBoobies

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Eastern US

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

votes no; as if we needed another reason to go after the gens. people ignore the flag enough as it is.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:29 pm

Daekesh

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:46 am
Posts: 3203

Re: CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement

I'm not quite sure why you need to change the way the health works - I.e. make it take less damage instead of getting extra health. It seems a bit of a pointless change.

And if you're going to force people to use mortars or grenade launchers to take down turrets, they really need not to be on little floating platforms that are extremely hard to land arcing projectiles on.

_________________
TTaM, Lumberjack
EU Admin and Lead (only?) Coder @ www.GameShrine.org.
Tribes: Ascend competition for Europe, Oceania and the US.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:40 pm

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CTF Gen/Base Defense Improvement ::: Shields :::: APPROVED!