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Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil
Author	Message
Daekesh Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:46 am Posts: 3203	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil Cyrre wrote: Kiss wrote: I'm pretty sure if we ever make it to that year without blowing ourselves up we'll have guns with no recoil anyway. Fact: gun recoil has increased thru history. You're thinking of lasers. Fact: Tribes armour is specifically designed to reduce the effect of recoil. It's in the lore. _________________ TTaM, Lumberjack EU Admin and Lead (only?) Coder @ www.GameShrine.org. Tribes: Ascend competition for Europe, Oceania and the US.
Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:55 am

SxxyKate Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:23 am Posts: 1614 Location: California	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil LHeureux wrote: hvcterr wrote: SxxyKate wrote: if you want CS recoil, then the bullets must be hitscan u can't have both I disagree. Care to explain why you think they're mutually-exclusive? I think SxxyKate never played BF games, Planetside, etc. Just another troll post to show his "PLEASE DON'T NERF MY AUTOS, the only way I'm good in T:A cause I can't predict s***" name one 1 esports fps game where there was recoil and you had to lead your automatic shots a inch or so depending on lag _________________ SexyKate's Youtube Channel Clicky! Dueling Theory 101 : a beginner's guide to dueling in T:A
Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:34 am

s0laris Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:04 am Posts: 104	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil LHeureux wrote: hvcterr wrote: SxxyKate wrote: if you want CS recoil, then the bullets must be hitscan u can't have both I disagree. Care to explain why you think they're mutually-exclusive? I think SxxyKate never played BF games, Planetside, etc. Just another troll post to show his "PLEASE DON'T NERF MY AUTOS, the only way I'm good in T:A cause I can't predict s***" I played BF, i played COD (not for long tho, they were boring). Recoil there is to prevent instagib by a steady aim (dont forget, those games are very slow, much easier to hit others if there is no recoil - now imagine a decent UT, TA, RTCW, CS or Quake player going there, those expert in hitscan weapons like Quakes lightning gun could massacre a server alone). 2-3 shots or a single headshot is enough there to kill someone. In tribes you need half or a whole cartridge to kill someone, if all shots are hitting. Theres no hitscan auto in TA, if you add recoil or bullet spread to the game, you can pretty much forget about autos. Projectile speed is also not fast enough to compensate. You can add spread or even higher damage drop at distance (spread for LMG or CG only, i prefer overheat tho), but making autos useless at medium range makes them useless completly. Most ppl have problem with players having decent aim (its funny when others call them noobs). Increasing movement speed on ground for all classes and adding some airstrafe would remedy the problem. Another solution is to look at the base of the game. Theres a huge difference in speed between a PTH skiing at 300+ kph, and a JUG walking. The main reason heavies are getting chewed by autos is their speed. I "dueled" a few good mediums(well, im newb, they were newbs too but i could see the Quake dodging school on his movement on ground, and he could see it on my movement too), its not easy to hit a proprely dodging opponent. If you dont want to touch the heavies movement, add armour value to them. Armour could decrease damage taken from LMG, a bit higher damage drop from LAR/AR and highest impact should be on SMGs damage. Dont touch the CG, dont add armour to medium or light classes. Again, dont add recoil, the core of the game is denying it. We dont want to play Tribes: Battlefield, if you wanna play a BF style game, go play BF.
Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:03 am

Oxyg3n Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:33 pm Posts: 43	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil Immie wrote: Recoil is better suited for games where it only takes 1-2 bullets to kill something. In tribes, you need to huge a relatively huge number of bullets to kill something, and tracing a moving target for that long is usually quite difficult. Recoil would just make the whole process ridiculous and impossible for anyone but the very best players. sounds perfect! this will encourage disc duels
Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:30 pm

LHeureux Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:35 pm Posts: 349	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil We finally have a Tribes game with good graphics and really nice animations (especially in mid-air) where disc duels are awesome compared to older tribes when your character was standing still in the air. But sadly we can't profit from this because of the huge numbers of autos. s0laris, people call auto-users noobs because it's pretty EZ mode compared to MAing someone. Go in Arena, hope to find some disc duelers, you'll see there's some kind of loyalty. I don't see any loyalty when I see a raider with his SMG + shieldpack strafing on the ground and shooting up in the air. _________________ I give up too.
Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:41 pm

Fenriir Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:42 pm Posts: 163	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil It should be spread. Not recoil. So that it can't be countered by using macros. But I agree, it's still random. Although, Tribes 2 had it. And those Tribers were happy with that. _________________ viewtopic.php?f=313&t=68145&start=20 <-- Please read the very first post on that page and consider it, Hi-Rez.
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:29 pm

mogonk Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 365	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil Cyrre wrote: Fact: gun recoil has increased thru history. That is not true. You would have to cherry pick your evidence pretty hard to come to that conclusion. SxxyKate wrote: name one 1 esports fps game where there was recoil and you had to lead your automatic shots a inch or so depending on lag Well, BF has been featured in MLG events, though it doesn't have a huge tourney scene. And it's not hitscan, and it does feature recoil. Regardless, I agree with your core point that recoil/spread doesn't belong in TA.
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:39 pm

s0laris Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:04 am Posts: 104	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil LHeureux wrote: We finally have a Tribes game with good graphics and really nice animations (especially in mid-air) where disc duels are awesome compared to older tribes when your character was standing still in the air. But sadly we can't profit from this because of the huge numbers of autos. s0laris, people call auto-users noobs because it's pretty EZ mode compared to MAing someone. Go in Arena, hope to find some disc duelers, you'll see there's some kind of loyalty. I don't see any loyalty when I see a raider with his SMG + shieldpack strafing on the ground and shooting up in the air. What loyalty?
Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:08 pm

LHeureux Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:35 pm Posts: 349	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil s0laris wrote: LHeureux wrote: We finally have a Tribes game with good graphics and really nice animations (especially in mid-air) where disc duels are awesome compared to older tribes when your character was standing still in the air. But sadly we can't profit from this because of the huge numbers of autos. s0laris, people call auto-users noobs because it's pretty EZ mode compared to MAing someone. Go in Arena, hope to find some disc duelers, you'll see there's some kind of loyalty. I don't see any loyalty when I see a raider with his SMG + shieldpack strafing on the ground and shooting up in the air. What loyalty? The loyalty of fighting with a skillfull weapon in mid air such as the Spinfusor. Like a soldier taking his sword to fight another sworder instead of shooting the guy with his gun. Sword = Spinfusor Gun = Autos Taking easy mode over skill. _________________ I give up too. Last edited by LHeureux on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Saeviomage Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:59 pm Posts: 496	Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil LHeureux wrote: Sword = Spinfusor Gun = Autos Taking easy mode over skill. Except it's more like Autos = autos Spinfuzor = rocket launcher Or was it the flamberge that had an effective range of ~600m, and area effect? I get so confused with sword names.
Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:33 pm

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Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

Author

Message

Daekesh

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:46 am
Posts: 3203

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

Cyrre wrote:

Kiss wrote:

I'm pretty sure if we ever make it to that year without blowing ourselves up we'll have guns with no recoil anyway.

Fact: gun recoil has increased thru history. You're thinking of lasers.

Fact: Tribes armour is specifically designed to reduce the effect of recoil. It's in the lore.

_________________
TTaM, Lumberjack
EU Admin and Lead (only?) Coder @ www.GameShrine.org.
Tribes: Ascend competition for Europe, Oceania and the US.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:55 am

SxxyKate

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:23 am
Posts: 1614
Location: California

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

LHeureux wrote:

hvcterr wrote:

SxxyKate wrote:

if you want CS recoil, then the bullets must be hitscan
u can't have both

I disagree. Care to explain why you think they're mutually-exclusive?

I think SxxyKate never played BF games, Planetside, etc. Just another troll post to show his "PLEASE DON'T NERF MY AUTOS, the only way I'm good in T:A cause I can't predict s***"

name one 1 esports fps game where there was recoil and you had to lead your automatic shots a inch or so depending on lag

_________________

SexyKate's Youtube Channel Clicky!
Dueling Theory 101 : a beginner's guide to dueling in T:A

Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:34 am

s0laris

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:04 am
Posts: 104

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

LHeureux wrote:

hvcterr wrote:

SxxyKate wrote:

if you want CS recoil, then the bullets must be hitscan
u can't have both

I disagree. Care to explain why you think they're mutually-exclusive?

I think SxxyKate never played BF games, Planetside, etc. Just another troll post to show his "PLEASE DON'T NERF MY AUTOS, the only way I'm good in T:A cause I can't predict s***"

I played BF, i played COD (not for long tho, they were boring). Recoil there is to prevent instagib by a steady aim (dont forget, those games are very slow, much easier to hit others if there is no recoil - now imagine a decent UT, TA, RTCW, CS or Quake player going there, those expert in hitscan weapons like Quakes lightning gun could massacre a server alone). 2-3 shots or a single headshot is enough there to kill someone. In tribes you need half or a whole cartridge to kill someone, if all shots are hitting. Theres no hitscan auto in TA, if you add recoil or bullet spread to the game, you can pretty much forget about autos. Projectile speed is also not fast enough to compensate. You can add spread or even higher damage drop at distance (spread for LMG or CG only, i prefer overheat tho), but making autos useless at medium range makes them useless completly.

Most ppl have problem with players having decent aim (its funny when others call them noobs). Increasing movement speed on ground for all classes and adding some airstrafe would remedy the problem. Another solution is to look at the base of the game. Theres a huge difference in speed between a PTH skiing at 300+ kph, and a JUG walking. The main reason heavies are getting chewed by autos is their speed. I "dueled" a few good mediums(well, im newb, they were newbs too but i could see the Quake dodging school on his movement on ground, and he could see it on my movement too), its not easy to hit a proprely dodging opponent. If you dont want to touch the heavies movement, add armour value to them. Armour could decrease damage taken from LMG, a bit higher damage drop from LAR/AR and highest impact should be on SMGs damage. Dont touch the CG, dont add armour to medium or light classes.

Again, dont add recoil, the core of the game is denying it. We dont want to play Tribes: Battlefield, if you wanna play a BF style game, go play BF.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:03 am

Oxyg3n

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:33 pm
Posts: 43

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

Immie wrote:

Recoil is better suited for games where it only takes 1-2 bullets to kill something. In tribes, you need to huge a relatively huge number of bullets to kill something, and tracing a moving target for that long is usually quite difficult. Recoil would just make the whole process ridiculous and impossible for anyone but the very best players.

sounds perfect!

this will encourage disc duels

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:30 pm

LHeureux

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 349

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

We finally have a Tribes game with good graphics and really nice animations (especially in mid-air) where disc duels are awesome compared to older tribes when your character was standing still in the air. But sadly we can't profit from this because of the huge numbers of autos.

s0laris, people call auto-users noobs because it's pretty EZ mode compared to MAing someone.

Go in Arena, hope to find some disc duelers, you'll see there's some kind of loyalty.

I don't see any loyalty when I see a raider with his SMG + shieldpack strafing on the ground and shooting up in the air.

_________________
I give up too.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:41 pm

Fenriir

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:42 pm
Posts: 163

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

It should be spread. Not recoil. So that it can't be countered by using macros. But I agree, it's still random. Although, Tribes 2 had it. And those Tribers were happy with that.

_________________
viewtopic.php?f=313&t=68145&start=20 <-- Please read the very first post on that page and consider it, Hi-Rez.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:29 pm

mogonk

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am
Posts: 365

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

Cyrre wrote:

Fact: gun recoil has increased thru history.

That is not true.

You would have to cherry pick your evidence pretty hard to come to that conclusion.

SxxyKate wrote:

name one 1 esports fps game where there was recoil and you had to lead your automatic shots a inch or so depending on lag

Well, BF has been featured in MLG events, though it doesn't have a huge tourney scene. And it's not hitscan, and it does feature recoil.

Regardless, I agree with your core point that recoil/spread doesn't belong in TA.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:39 pm

s0laris

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:04 am
Posts: 104

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

LHeureux wrote:

What loyalty?

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:08 pm

LHeureux

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 349

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

s0laris wrote:

LHeureux wrote:

What loyalty?

The loyalty of fighting with a skillfull weapon in mid air such as the Spinfusor. Like a soldier taking his sword to fight another sworder instead of shooting the guy with his gun.

Sword = Spinfusor
Gun = Autos

Taking easy mode over skill.

_________________
I give up too.

Last edited by LHeureux on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Saeviomage

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:59 pm
Posts: 496

Re: Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil

LHeureux wrote:

Sword = Spinfusor
Gun = Autos

Taking easy mode over skill.

Except it's more like

Autos = autos
Spinfuzor = rocket launcher

Or was it the flamberge that had an effective range of ~600m, and area effect? I get so confused with sword names.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:33 pm

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Instead of balance/nerf SMG/AR why not just add recoil