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Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes
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TheSomething Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:53 am Posts: 12	Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes As it is now, the throwing knifes are basically a reskinned silenced pistol, with a lower RoF but more damage (and some splash). It does not really behave like a throwing knife, nor does it differ much from the pistol in terms of gameplay. (It's also silly from a game-world standpoint. Why would there be mid-range, levitating, non-arching knives with splash damage (!), while all grenades have a very short range and fly in a strong arc?) I like the idea to give the INF good, usable throwing knives. So here's my suggestion to give them a unique role: - Make them fly slower, and in an arc. (This also effectively reduces their range.) - Remove the splash damage. - Lower the rate of fire. (The idea would be a forceful throw, not a shuriken-style barrage.) - Keep the damage per hit roughly the same. (Obviously, balanced by playtesting.) - Allow them to be thrown with less cloak disruption (for example, 0.5s instead of the standard 2s). This would make them an actual, close-combat assasination weapon, instead of the mid-range barrage weapon it is now.
Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:58 am

VonSchlupeurk Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm Posts: 448	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes Absolutely. I didn't unlock them because 1) they are functionally redundant 2) the splash prevents a clean fire + melee turret destruction. _________________ Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.
Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:29 am

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes I was getting ready to rip your post apart for even suggesting an improvement to the Throwing Knives, since they are pretty d*** powerful in the right hands. However, I completely agree, right now they feel silly, like automatic knives. The projectile speed and accuracy they have could only be achieved if being shot out of a gun or if the knives themselves were rocket propelled or so. Realistic physics on them would be good, and a realistic RoF too. And the lesser hit on cloak makes sense, they are about as stealthy as a weapon can be. I have no idea how an Infiltrator manages to hide 8 of these on his body though without looking ridiculous and feeling the weight of them. Because I'm bored, I've just weighed a few knives in my kitchen, I got an average weight of 55g, so 41 of those is strapping 2.25kg of metal to your body, and the Infiltrator has the body of a 12 year old girl. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:27 am

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes a 12 year old girl wearing power armor how much do you think that jetpack weighs anyway? _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:53 am

Lamikaze Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:55 am Posts: 442	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes Wobberjockey wrote: how much do you think that jetpack weighs anyway? Approximately 120 kg, looking at the difficulty it has to help you flying in this game _________________
Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:11 am

OuchMyBoobies Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm Posts: 992 Location: Eastern US	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes i vote hell no. flying slower and in an arc makes them useless. if you want to get close, just melee instead. what you are suggesting is a nerf by almost all accounts. while they don't make sense, they're a great (and fun) weapon. leave 'em alone.
Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:16 am

sparkest Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:04 pm Posts: 1425	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes no.
Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:27 pm

Gierling Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:56 am Posts: 1389	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes I've always thought of them as small grenades. Think about it, they have a laser edge, which means they are carrying a powersource, and when they hit something there is a crack of orange energy, which looks to me like the powersource overloading. They look like a very simple grenade type object, easy to manufacture in large quantities and simple to use.
Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:40 pm

Durzaka Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:42 pm Posts: 1276	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes FreaK367 wrote: I was getting ready to rip your post apart for even suggesting an improvement to the Throwing Knives, since they are pretty d*** powerful in the right hands. However, I completely agree, right now they feel silly, like automatic knives. The projectile speed and accuracy they have could only be achieved if being shot out of a gun or if the knives themselves were rocket propelled or so. Realistic physics on them would be good, and a realistic RoF too. And the lesser hit on cloak makes sense, they are about as stealthy as a weapon can be. I have no idea how an Infiltrator manages to hide 8 of these on his body though without looking ridiculous and feeling the weight of them. Because I'm bored, I've just weighed a few knives in my kitchen, I got an average weight of 55g, so 41 of those is strapping 2.25kg of metal to your body, and the Infiltrator has the body of a 12 year old girl. just FYI, throwing knives are weighted A LOT differently than kitchen knives. The big ones (about 12 inches long, idk how big the ones in game are supposed to be) can weigh upwards of 11-13 oz. With th elow end being around 9 oz.
Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:17 pm

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes Yeah I doubt you'll get support from many regular Infiltrators, the Throwing Knives currently are very powerful, with a high DPS, good projectile speed, pin point accuracy, fairly low RoF. And you're suggesting a nerf overall, which they probably need. But there's too many Infiltrators around to blindly defend them, that's why the Infiltrator has one of the strongest sets of weapons right now, even though it can go invisible. Durzaka wrote: just FYI, throwing knives are weighted A LOT differently than kitchen knives. The big ones (about 12 inches long, idk how big the ones in game are supposed to be) can weigh upwards of 11-13 oz. With th elow end being around 9 oz. So if they are 10oz each, the Infiltrator must carry over 25 pounds of metal at all times o_O, doesn't show much. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:29 pm

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Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

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TheSomething

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:53 am
Posts: 12

Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

As it is now, the throwing knifes are basically a reskinned silenced pistol, with a lower RoF but more damage (and some splash). It does not really behave like a throwing knife, nor does it differ much from the pistol in terms of gameplay.

(It's also silly from a game-world standpoint. Why would there be mid-range, levitating, non-arching knives with splash damage (!), while all grenades have a very short range and fly in a strong arc?)

I like the idea to give the INF good, usable throwing knives. So here's my suggestion to give them a unique role:

- Make them fly slower, and in an arc. (This also effectively reduces their range.)
- Remove the splash damage.
- Lower the rate of fire. (The idea would be a forceful throw, not a shuriken-style barrage.)
- Keep the damage per hit roughly the same. (Obviously, balanced by playtesting.)
- Allow them to be thrown with less cloak disruption (for example, 0.5s instead of the standard 2s).

This would make them an actual, close-combat assasination weapon, instead of the mid-range barrage weapon it is now.

Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:58 am

VonSchlupeurk

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:05 pm
Posts: 448

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

Absolutely. I didn't unlock them because 1) they are functionally redundant 2) the splash prevents a clean fire + melee turret destruction.

_________________

Tactician bronze badge : 500 XP. Getting it from a supply drop in combat : priceless.

Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:29 am

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

I was getting ready to rip your post apart for even suggesting an improvement to the Throwing Knives, since they are pretty d*** powerful in the right hands.

However, I completely agree, right now they feel silly, like automatic knives. The projectile speed and accuracy they have could only be achieved if being shot out of a gun or if the knives themselves were rocket propelled or so. Realistic physics on them would be good, and a realistic RoF too.

And the lesser hit on cloak makes sense, they are about as stealthy as a weapon can be.

I have no idea how an Infiltrator manages to hide 8 of these on his body though without looking ridiculous and feeling the weight of them.

Because I'm bored, I've just weighed a few knives in my kitchen, I got an average weight of 55g, so 41 of those is strapping 2.25kg of metal to your body, and the Infiltrator has the body of a 12 year old girl.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
Large Jackal Nerf

Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:27 am

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

a 12 year old girl wearing power armor

how much do you think that jetpack weighs anyway?

_________________

original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig
The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:53 am

Lamikaze

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:55 am
Posts: 442

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

Wobberjockey wrote:

how much do you think that jetpack weighs anyway?

Approximately 120 kg, looking at the difficulty it has to help you flying in this game

_________________

Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:11 am

OuchMyBoobies

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Eastern US

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

i vote hell no. flying slower and in an arc makes them useless. if you want to get close, just melee instead. what you are suggesting is a nerf by almost all accounts. while they don't make sense, they're a great (and fun) weapon. leave 'em alone.

Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:16 am

sparkest

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:04 pm
Posts: 1425

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

no.

Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:27 pm

Gierling

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:56 am
Posts: 1389

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

I've always thought of them as small grenades.

Think about it, they have a laser edge, which means they are carrying a powersource, and when they hit something there is a crack of orange energy, which looks to me like the powersource overloading. They look like a very simple grenade type object, easy to manufacture in large quantities and simple to use.

Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:40 pm

Durzaka

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:42 pm
Posts: 1276

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

FreaK367 wrote:

just FYI, throwing knives are weighted A LOT differently than kitchen knives.

The big ones (about 12 inches long, idk how big the ones in game are supposed to be) can weigh upwards of 11-13 oz. With th elow end being around 9 oz.

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:17 pm

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes

Yeah I doubt you'll get support from many regular Infiltrators, the Throwing Knives currently are very powerful, with a high DPS, good projectile speed, pin point accuracy, fairly low RoF. And you're suggesting a nerf overall, which they probably need. But there's too many Infiltrators around to blindly defend them, that's why the Infiltrator has one of the strongest sets of weapons right now, even though it can go invisible.

Durzaka wrote:

So if they are 10oz each, the Infiltrator must carry over 25 pounds of metal at all times o_O, doesn't show much.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
Large Jackal Nerf

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:29 pm

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Improving (not buffing) the throwing knifes