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Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap
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naqel Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am Posts: 344	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap First thing to do would be to fix the automatics. I personally suggest a firing rate reduction and spin up/reload time increase for X1 specifically, but at this point, anything works. Next would be to fix Brute weapons, specifically: -Adding roughly +50% more damage on the Nova Colt, to bring per clip efficiency up to Eagle/Sparrow levels. -Improve the clip size to 10/12 and firing rate up by ~35% on the Auto Shotgun, so it's actually usable indoors. -Swap slots for Gladiator and Plasma Cannon, so that they can be used on their own, and not as a set. -Further buff the Heavy Spinfusor. Probably increasing it's damage, but it still dose need buffs to stand out against other Spinfusors. Then... Well, sadly the game is out of beta, so moving the weapons between classes is probably out of question. Baby steps I guess. _________________ patchnotes wrote: Voicepacks are now available to purchase.
Wed May 30, 2012 3:42 am

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap naqel wrote: -Adding roughly +50% more damage on the Nova Colt, to bring per clip efficiency up to Eagle/Sparrow levels. Why does it need that? Sure, it's per-clip damage is less, but that clip can be spent much faster, which means it has a similar DPS. Quote: -Further buff the Heavy Spinfusor. Probably increasing it's damage, but it still dose need buffs to stand out against other Spinfusors. I want to see it work a little bit in the direction of weapons like the double-barreled shotgun or Arx Buster. A longer reload that gives you 2 shots you can trigger with a shorter delay in-between. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Wed May 30, 2012 4:25 am

VIChiefIV Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am Posts: 223	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap I think the BRT's HSF damage output is fine atm. I still think there's something awkward with the HSF when it comes to aiming. I could swear that the projectile it fires has a different behaviour in terms of movement than the one fired from the MSF the JUG carries. The Auto Shotgun (ASG) is just close to useless, might as well throw pebbles at an enemy. I know I know, as no doubt most people will say you can get the occassional kill with it BUT due to the gun's erratic nature it's DPS just isn't consistent enough. I've had dead on shots on closeby enemies and the game is still telling me ' Nope, sorry you didn't do any (or very little) damage because even though your recticle was over the enemy the bullet spread caused you to miss with most of the buckshot.' In that sense I'm considering unlocking the Plasma Cannon for the BRT, because indoors it surely will do better than the ASG in 90% of the cases while still being somewhat useable out in the open field on short/medium range. _________________ Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc) The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-
Wed May 30, 2012 5:45 am

naqel Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am Posts: 344	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap hvcterr wrote: naqel wrote: -Adding roughly +50% more damage on the Nova Colt, to bring per clip efficiency up to Eagle/Sparrow levels. Why does it need that? Sure, it's per-clip damage is less, but that clip can be spent much faster, which means it has a similar DPS. NC dose not in fact fire all that much faster, and it hardly matters. You get less ammo, and every shot counts. In actual combat, you won't spray the Nova Colt as you would a Sparrow or an Eagle, and even those are mostly used in bursts rather than spraying. You get less shots, and they have to count. Plus it's rather pathetic for a Heavy class weapon to be this weak with a clip this small. VIChiefIV wrote: In that sense I'm considering unlocking the Plasma Cannon for the BRT, because indoors it surely will do better than the ASG in 90% of the cases while still being somewhat useable out in the open field on short/medium range. You'd be surprised how many times I wished I'd have the Auto Shoty instead of/paired with the Plasma... _________________ patchnotes wrote: Voicepacks are now available to purchase.
Wed May 30, 2012 7:37 am

VIChiefIV Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am Posts: 223	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap Naqel wrote: You'd be surprised how many times I wished I'd have the Auto Shoty instead of/paired with the Plasma... Funny how perceptions may vary Personally I think that I'll fair better with the Plasma Cannon than with the ASG. It's not my number 1 priority though, still have some other things to unlock that would make the Brute have better survivability like the Shield pack. In connection to that, how good is the BRT's new pack? I have read very mixed comments about it and I have started to doubt whether it would be worth unlocking instead of the shield pack that I'm aiming for right now. _________________ Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc) The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-
Wed May 30, 2012 9:21 am

naqel Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am Posts: 344	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap VIChiefIV wrote: In connection to that, how good is the BRT's new pack? I have read very mixed comments about it and I have started to doubt whether it would be worth unlocking instead of the shield pack that I'm aiming for right now. Unless Hi-Rez plan to buff Energy and Energy recharge on all heavies, you're better off with the Survival pack. _________________ patchnotes wrote: Voicepacks are now available to purchase.
Wed May 30, 2012 10:52 am

Punichan Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am Posts: 458	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap Rid the Strikes, and give us havok, Juggys happy
Wed May 30, 2012 10:56 am

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap VIChiefIV wrote: I've had dead on shots on closeby enemies and the game is still telling me ' Nope, sorry you didn't do any (or very little) damage because even though your recticle was over the enemy the bullet spread caused you to miss with most of the buckshot.' IMO a really good subtle-buff would be to make the spread a lot less random. Keep just enough of a random component that most people don't notice, but arrange it so that individual pellets tend to be evenly distributed throughout the cross-section of the shot cone. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Wed May 30, 2012 1:41 pm

SkepticTA Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm Posts: 3062	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap hvcterr wrote: If you consider the Brute an indoor class (and thus vulnerable while traveling outdoors away from its niche) then the lack of an auto isn't such a big deal. The Brute only needs an auto if you're trying to make it overlap with the Juggernaut. Considering that 80% of the game is played outdoors and other classes can do Brute's job indoors, doesn't bode well for this class. He doesn't need to be as strong outdoors as JUG or DMB, just not completely useless outside of narrow corridors. _________________ (AHK) T:A Physics Profiler
Wed May 30, 2012 5:05 pm

danshyu Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:10 am Posts: 28	Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap naqel wrote: First thing to do would be to fix the automatics. I personally suggest a firing rate reduction and spin up/reload time increase for X1 specifically, but at this point, anything works. Next would be to fix Brute weapons, specifically: -Adding roughly +50% more damage on the Nova Colt, to bring per clip efficiency up to Eagle/Sparrow levels. -Improve the clip size to 10/12 and firing rate up by ~35% on the Auto Shotgun, so it's actually usable indoors. -Swap slots for Gladiator and Plasma Cannon, so that they can be used on their own, and not as a set. -Further buff the Heavy Spinfusor. Probably increasing it's damage, but it still dose need buffs to stand out against other Spinfusors. Then... Well, sadly the game is out of beta, so moving the weapons between classes is probably out of question. Baby steps I guess. For the last time. Brute is fine. Heavy spinfusor is absolute murder if you don't just try to out spam other spinfusor models and actually take careful aim. Auto shotgun is great at finishing people off at close-medium range. And the revolver reaches even beyond that, so long as you learn to take better snapshots. I've been kicking ass playing Brute since even before this content pack. And ever since the introduction of the survival pack, Brute has become a very powerful heavy dog fighter. Overall, Brute is pretty rock solid in all aspects, the only thing it sucks at is giving chases (Add thrust ability to the survival pack? LOL). Which kinda limits it's role in CTF matches. But in just about every other match types, Brutes can easily dominate if the player is competent enough. True, there will always be risks of lighter classes wearing you down with their superior agility. But if you've already become good with spinfusor armed Pathfinder and Soldier, switch to Brute will absolutly augment all the skills you've learned while playing those 2 lighter classes.
Wed May 30, 2012 7:04 pm

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Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

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naqel

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 344

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

First thing to do would be to fix the automatics. I personally suggest a firing rate reduction and spin up/reload time increase for X1 specifically, but at this point, anything works.

Next would be to fix Brute weapons, specifically:
-Adding roughly +50% more damage on the Nova Colt, to bring per clip efficiency up to Eagle/Sparrow levels.
-Improve the clip size to 10/12 and firing rate up by ~35% on the Auto Shotgun, so it's actually usable indoors.
-Swap slots for Gladiator and Plasma Cannon, so that they can be used on their own, and not as a set.
-Further buff the Heavy Spinfusor. Probably increasing it's damage, but it still dose need buffs to stand out against other Spinfusors.

Then...
Well, sadly the game is out of beta, so moving the weapons between classes is probably out of question. Baby steps I guess.

_________________

patchnotes wrote:

Voicepacks are now available to purchase.

Wed May 30, 2012 3:42 am

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

naqel wrote:

-Adding roughly +50% more damage on the Nova Colt, to bring per clip efficiency up to Eagle/Sparrow levels.

Why does it need that? Sure, it's per-clip damage is less, but that clip can be spent much faster, which means it has a similar DPS.

Quote:

-Further buff the Heavy Spinfusor. Probably increasing it's damage, but it still dose need buffs to stand out against other Spinfusors.

I want to see it work a little bit in the direction of weapons like the double-barreled shotgun or Arx Buster. A longer reload that gives you 2 shots you can trigger with a shorter delay in-between.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Wed May 30, 2012 4:25 am

VIChiefIV

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am
Posts: 223

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

I think the BRT's HSF damage output is fine atm. I still think there's something awkward with the HSF when it comes to aiming. I could swear that the projectile it fires has a different behaviour in terms of movement than the one fired from the MSF the JUG carries.

The Auto Shotgun (ASG) is just close to useless, might as well throw pebbles at an enemy. I know I know, as no doubt most people will say you can get the occassional kill with it BUT due to the gun's erratic nature it's DPS just isn't consistent enough. I've had dead on shots on closeby enemies and the game is still telling me ' Nope, sorry you didn't do any (or very little) damage because even though your recticle was over the enemy the bullet spread caused you to miss with most of the buckshot.'

In that sense I'm considering unlocking the Plasma Cannon for the BRT, because indoors it surely will do better than the ASG in 90% of the cases while still being somewhat useable out in the open field on short/medium range.

_________________
Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc)
The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-

Wed May 30, 2012 5:45 am

naqel

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 344

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

hvcterr wrote:

naqel wrote:

-Adding roughly +50% more damage on the Nova Colt, to bring per clip efficiency up to Eagle/Sparrow levels.

Why does it need that? Sure, it's per-clip damage is less, but that clip can be spent much faster, which means it has a similar DPS.

NC dose not in fact fire all that much faster, and it hardly matters.
You get less ammo, and every shot counts. In actual combat, you won't spray the Nova Colt as you would a Sparrow or an Eagle, and even those are mostly used in bursts rather than spraying.
You get less shots, and they have to count.
Plus it's rather pathetic for a Heavy class weapon to be this weak with a clip this small.

VIChiefIV wrote:

In that sense I'm considering unlocking the Plasma Cannon for the BRT, because indoors it surely will do better than the ASG in 90% of the cases while still being somewhat useable out in the open field on short/medium range.

You'd be surprised how many times I wished I'd have the Auto Shoty instead of/paired with the Plasma...

_________________

patchnotes wrote:

Voicepacks are now available to purchase.

Wed May 30, 2012 7:37 am

VIChiefIV

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am
Posts: 223

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

Naqel wrote:

You'd be surprised how many times I wished I'd have the Auto Shoty instead of/paired with the Plasma...

Funny how perceptions may vary

Personally I think that I'll fair better with the Plasma Cannon than with the ASG.

It's not my number 1 priority though, still have some other things to unlock that would make the Brute have better survivability like the Shield pack.

In connection to that, how good is the BRT's new pack? I have read very mixed comments about it and I have started to doubt whether it would be worth unlocking instead of the shield pack that I'm aiming for right now.

_________________
Member of The Conclave (www.conclave.cc)
The time is always right to do what is right. -Martin Luther King-

Wed May 30, 2012 9:21 am

naqel

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 344

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

VIChiefIV wrote:

In connection to that, how good is the BRT's new pack? I have read very mixed comments about it and I have started to doubt whether it would be worth unlocking instead of the shield pack that I'm aiming for right now.

Unless Hi-Rez plan to buff Energy and Energy recharge on all heavies, you're better off with the Survival pack.

_________________

patchnotes wrote:

Voicepacks are now available to purchase.

Wed May 30, 2012 10:52 am

Punichan

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 am
Posts: 458

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

Rid the Strikes, and give us havok, Juggys happy

Wed May 30, 2012 10:56 am

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

VIChiefIV wrote:

I've had dead on shots on closeby enemies and the game is still telling me ' Nope, sorry you didn't do any (or very little) damage because even though your recticle was over the enemy the bullet spread caused you to miss with most of the buckshot.'

IMO a really good subtle-buff would be to make the spread a lot less random. Keep just enough of a random component that most people don't notice, but arrange it so that individual pellets tend to be evenly distributed throughout the cross-section of the shot cone.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Wed May 30, 2012 1:41 pm

SkepticTA

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 3062

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

hvcterr wrote:

If you consider the Brute an indoor class (and thus vulnerable while traveling outdoors away from its niche) then the lack of an auto isn't such a big deal.

The Brute only needs an auto if you're trying to make it overlap with the Juggernaut.

Considering that 80% of the game is played outdoors and other classes can do Brute's job indoors, doesn't bode well for this class. He doesn't need to be as strong outdoors as JUG or DMB, just not completely useless outside of narrow corridors.

_________________

(AHK) T:A Physics Profiler

Wed May 30, 2012 5:05 pm

danshyu

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:10 am
Posts: 28

Re: Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap

naqel wrote:

For the last time. Brute is fine. Heavy spinfusor is absolute murder if you don't just try to out spam other spinfusor models and actually take careful aim. Auto shotgun is great at finishing people off at close-medium range. And the revolver reaches even beyond that, so long as you learn to take better snapshots. I've been kicking ass playing Brute since even before this content pack. And ever since the introduction of the survival pack, Brute has become a very powerful heavy dog fighter. Overall, Brute is pretty rock solid in all aspects, the only thing it sucks at is giving chases (Add thrust ability to the survival pack? LOL). Which kinda limits it's role in CTF matches. But in just about every other match types, Brutes can easily dominate if the player is competent enough. True, there will always be risks of lighter classes wearing you down with their superior agility. But if you've already become good with spinfusor armed Pathfinder and Soldier, switch to Brute will absolutly augment all the skills you've learned while playing those 2 lighter classes.

Wed May 30, 2012 7:04 pm

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Ideas regarding fixing the Brute/Juggernaut overlap