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Premature Flag Returns are a Problem
Author	Message
mogonk Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 365	Premature Flag Returns are a Problem If you play in pub games you see this CONSTANTLY. More often than not, tbh. It's not that most players don't want to play well. It's that the game has built in a reward system for flag returns and most players have never stopped to think about how this really affects their team. So, two ideas: 1. Eliminate the reward for flag returns. Instead, give players a flag capture assist for returning the flag within a certain time frame of a successful cap. That combined with the flag defender awards would incentivize the correct behavior. 2. Add a tip in the loading screens that points out that returning your flag as quickly as possible is a bad move in some situations, to encourage people to think about this. Just something that's been bugging me, and a couple of ideas off the top of my head. If you have better solutions, share.
Wed May 16, 2012 4:26 pm

Donut Beta Tester Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:50 am Posts: 451	Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem Then, there's no incentive NOT to return it instantly. There should be a reward, but it should increase based on how far away from the stand the flag is and how long it has been in the field. The higher either number, the greater the return reward. If it was instantly returned right off the stand, rewards are nil. _________________ SmoothP: LEAD TO THE RETICLE. AIM WHERE YOUR TARGET IS GOING TO BE. 100% SIMPLICITY.
Wed May 16, 2012 4:29 pm

illerFFN Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm Posts: 1174	Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem I think one of the issues is... VFS / "The Flag is Secures!" command is too quiet and people can't hear it half the time. But yeah the point system needs changing, infact if the flag gets dropped around your Stand then the game should just outright prevent anyone from returning it until the timer runs out and then grant everyone who was standing near it credit for return.
Wed May 16, 2012 4:32 pm

mogonk Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 365	Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem illerFFN wrote: I think one of the issues is... VFS / "The Flag is Secures!" command is too quiet and people can't hear it half the time. I don't think so, man. I don't think players aren't hearing/reading it, I think they just don't have a clue what is being communicated. If they made it more explicit, for example "Don't return our flag!" maybe people would get it, but people who have never been exposed to the idea that you shouldn't immediately return every flag are simply not going to infer that from VFS. Donut wrote: Then, there's no incentive NOT to return it instantly. There should be a reward, but it should increase based on how far away from the stand the flag is and how long it has been in the field. The higher either number, the greater the return reward. If it was instantly returned right off the stand, rewards are nil. Yeah. I can get behind that. I'm honestly not that picky about what should be done, but something should be. This is ubiquitous in pub matches, and it straight up loses games.
Wed May 16, 2012 9:43 pm

supern00b Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:24 am Posts: 551 Location: New Zealand	Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem Dosent seem to be too bad in mid+ aus server pubs. But I can get behind the +250 credits for an area if flag is returned, and to incentivise not returning if it is in a safe location. How about +300 credits "flag protector" protect flag for 45 seconds when in safe position. im hoping newer players would choose returning flag when swarmed over a possible 50 credits though. [VGRD] I don't know. _________________ Joined: Tue 12 Jul, 2011 4:24 am Left: Wed 05 Mar, 2013 9:35 pm Posts in 2013: 1 I always edit for typos.
Thu May 17, 2012 3:08 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4824 Location: NA East	Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem How I would fix CTF scoring. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Thu May 17, 2012 4:34 am

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Premature Flag Returns are a Problem

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Message

mogonk

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am
Posts: 365

Premature Flag Returns are a Problem

If you play in pub games you see this CONSTANTLY. More often than not, tbh. It's not that most players don't want to play well. It's that the game has built in a reward system for flag returns and most players have never stopped to think about how this really affects their team. So, two ideas:

1. Eliminate the reward for flag returns. Instead, give players a flag capture assist for returning the flag within a certain time frame of a successful cap. That combined with the flag defender awards would incentivize the correct behavior.

2. Add a tip in the loading screens that points out that returning your flag as quickly as possible is a bad move in some situations, to encourage people to think about this.

Just something that's been bugging me, and a couple of ideas off the top of my head. If you have better solutions, share.

Wed May 16, 2012 4:26 pm

Donut

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 451

Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem

Then, there's no incentive NOT to return it instantly.

There should be a reward, but it should increase based on how far away from the stand the flag is and how long it has been in the field. The higher either number, the greater the return reward. If it was instantly returned right off the stand, rewards are nil.

_________________
SmoothP:

LEAD TO THE RETICLE. AIM WHERE YOUR TARGET IS GOING TO BE. 100% SIMPLICITY.

Wed May 16, 2012 4:29 pm

illerFFN

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1174

Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem

I think one of the issues is... VFS / "The Flag is Secures!" command is too quiet and people can't hear it half the time.

But yeah the point system needs changing, infact if the flag gets dropped around your Stand then the game should just outright prevent anyone from returning it until the timer runs out and then grant everyone who was standing near it credit for return.

Wed May 16, 2012 4:32 pm

mogonk

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 am
Posts: 365

Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem

illerFFN wrote:

I think one of the issues is... VFS / "The Flag is Secures!" command is too quiet and people can't hear it half the time.

I don't think so, man. I don't think players aren't hearing/reading it, I think they just don't have a clue what is being communicated. If they made it more explicit, for example "Don't return our flag!" maybe people would get it, but people who have never been exposed to the idea that you shouldn't immediately return every flag are simply not going to infer that from VFS.

Donut wrote:

Yeah. I can get behind that.

I'm honestly not that picky about what should be done, but something should be. This is ubiquitous in pub matches, and it straight up loses games.

Wed May 16, 2012 9:43 pm

supern00b

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:24 am
Posts: 551
Location: New Zealand

Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem

Dosent seem to be too bad in mid+ aus server pubs.

But I can get behind the +250 credits for an area if flag is returned, and to incentivise not returning if it is in a safe location. How about
+300 credits "flag protector" protect flag for 45 seconds when in safe position.

im hoping newer players would choose returning flag when swarmed over a possible 50 credits though.
[VGRD] I don't know.

_________________
Joined: Tue 12 Jul, 2011 4:24 am
Left: Wed 05 Mar, 2013 9:35 pm
Posts in 2013: 1
I always edit for typos.

Thu May 17, 2012 3:08 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4824
Location: NA East

Re: Premature Flag Returns are a Problem

How I would fix CTF scoring.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Thu May 17, 2012 4:34 am

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Premature Flag Returns are a Problem