Tribes:Ascend Forums

FAQ • Login • Register

Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects
Author	Message
japro Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 am Posts: 4	Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects Hi, so in a game as diverse as Tribes there is no way to force people on public servers to actually play in a way that is useful for the team, it can at best be incentivized. The accolades fulfill this purpose in TA as far as I can tell. They are mostly ok i think and for example the "generator party"-problem mostly comes from people getting too many kills indoors and not from actually killing the generator being too rewarding. Anyway, I play capper/chaser most of the time and my view on the roles of offense/defense is mostly based around that. So basically the role of defense is to keep cappers from grabbing/capping the flag and the role of the offense is to disrupt that defense. So sometimes when i find myself on a server where the defense is so strong that I can't manage to even grab the flag with enough health to have a chance against potential chasers, I switch to juggernaut and play HO concentrating on clearing/disrupting the flag stand. While doing that switch I often see that there already are like 4-5 juggernauts and raiders and keep wondering what they are doing... When I try to cap the things that kill me the most are HoFs, forcefields, Mines and deployable turrets (well, actually it's mostly chasers that do the actual killing, but it's the damage I take from the aforementioned that makes me way easier to pick off for them), while on the other hand I can pretty much ignore for example Base Turrets. So when i play HO i keep wondering why i get accolades for destroying Base Turrets and killing random dudes while clearing deployables from the flag stand doesn't give me anything. From a pure accolade based perspective shelling the flag stand is pretty much the most unattractive thing. The only accolades you get are random kills on people that get caught in your mortar spam. I find it even hard to consistently kill the HoF, at best I can force him off the flag and draw his attention. Now that is totally fine since a disrupted HoF that can't just stand on the flag is WAY easier to pass by as a capper so that would be mission accomplished actually. In short: Killing the stuff that actually hinders the cappers is one of the least rewarded aspects of the game, which I think is an issue. So I guess it would be nice if there was some sort of mini accolade for destroying deployables (+25 or so) and maybe an accolade that rewards "disrupting" the flag stand (damage enemies near their own flag for example).
Wed May 09, 2012 9:47 am

Tamburlaine Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am Posts: 1859	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects ... Yes. _________________ oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer
Wed May 09, 2012 11:18 am

terminalinsanity Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:08 pm Posts: 339 Location: Canada	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects I dont think accolades need to be used. I think the game simply lacks teamplay elements. In older tribes games you had tools like the targeting laser, beacon+inv sites, flares, etc... all which encouraged teamplay. A new player starting out would realize his bomber's only chance at survival is to have a tailgunner with flares, so instead of just hopping into a bomber and taking off, he'll fly around the base trying to pick a tailgunner up first. New players trying to grab the flag too, would realize the benifits of using the targeting laser to paint the enemy flag pole first for the heavies. Or, for example if you're being harassed by shrikes, sneak into the enemy base and plant beacons near the vpad so your heavies can blow it up These little tools all add up to a different kind of mindset while playing. You start activly looking for ways to take advantage of your team's abilities, and how you can help your teammates. Currently, T;A lacks most of these elements and players dont bother thinking about this. They just pick something to do and focus on their own selfish goals for their own score (accolades actually does more to discourage teamwork then anything here) An accolade for repairing the geerator isnt going to encourage any new people to repair it. The same people who enjoyed using gen-powered items will still be the only ones repairing it, only they get bonus credits for it now as well. _________________ Last edited by terminalinsanity on Wed May 09, 2012 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wed May 09, 2012 11:27 am

Diknak Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 pm Posts: 553	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects This problem has been brought up a ton of times. However, the problem that an accolade isn't given for killing deployables is a minor problem and not the biggest issue at hand. The much larger issue is the fact that while you have all of those people in the gen room, they are not doing something meaningful by attacking the gen. That itself is the problem. The generator needs a much more important role to play. When that happens, you will value your gen offense instead of considering them useless. _________________ do \|\| !do; try; #Error: Command try not found.
Wed May 09, 2012 11:29 am

caaok Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm Posts: 1110	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects Yes, though perhaps only points for deployables around the stand. Killing defenders at the stand should also be worth more, nitroning the carrier should be worth points, perhaps with a bonus if you either kill the carrier and/or make the return shortly after. E-grab timing should be more generous. Speed accolades should be bumped at least 50kph each, or another should be added. Flag returns should give points based on distance from your stand, starting at zero for a sizable radius around your own stand. Upgrading structures should be more rewarding. Killing disrupts around your stand should be worth something, as the radius for "flag defender" is pretty small. _________________ What we lose with hitscan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY
Wed May 09, 2012 11:34 am

Diknak Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 pm Posts: 553	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects caaok wrote: Yes, though perhaps only points for deployables around the stand. Killing defenders at the stand should also be worth more, nitroning the carrier should be worth points, perhaps with a bonus if you either kill the carrier and/or make the return shortly after. E-grab timing should be more generous. Speed accolades should be bumped at least 50kph each, or another should be added. Flag returns should give points based on distance from your stand, starting at zero for a sizable radius around your own stand. Upgrading structures should be more rewarding. Killing disrupts around your stand should be worth something, as the radius for "flag defender" is pretty small. Upgrading structures now provides 2 new accolades with the new patch. 1) Investor. You get points every 2 minutes that a structure you have upgraded is online. 2) Turret Support. You get points for turret kills that you have upgraded. _________________ do \|\| !do; try; #Error: Command try not found.
Wed May 09, 2012 11:44 am

ShockWaveEVE Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:52 pm Posts: 624 Location: Dome City .003 /Medic Sector	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects Diknak wrote: caaok wrote: Yes, though perhaps only points for deployables around the stand. Killing defenders at the stand should also be worth more, nitroning the carrier should be worth points, perhaps with a bonus if you either kill the carrier and/or make the return shortly after. E-grab timing should be more generous. Speed accolades should be bumped at least 50kph each, or another should be added. Flag returns should give points based on distance from your stand, starting at zero for a sizable radius around your own stand. Upgrading structures should be more rewarding. Killing disrupts around your stand should be worth something, as the radius for "flag defender" is pretty small. Upgrading structures now provides 2 new accolades with the new patch. 1) Investor. You get points every 2 minutes that a structure you have upgraded is online. 2) Turret Support. You get points for turret kills that you have upgraded. Has anyone noticed that going around your base and killing people is more rewarding than getting the flag? lol it is true.. and investor is helpful and i love turrent support i got it like 10 times yesterday from kills. Also kills near the enemy flag should be rewarding too. _________________ ^This is EVE.^ Sending data-complete. ---------------- Name-[+EVE]xshockwavex Kills-26,912 Deaths-8,510 Garbage at dueling great a defending a point(or base) Rank- ---------------- Statistics Probability Complete.
Fri May 11, 2012 2:46 pm

illerFFN Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm Posts: 1174	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects What aspects? ...does HiRez even have any of those?? As an F2P player, I've noticed that I can literally get a couple kills right at the beginning of the game and then sit in Spectator mode with a macro on and get almost the same amount of XP as I get for topping the Score-board by playing the entire round. The XP rewards in this game are a joke once you've gotten all the low-hanging badges.... And defending the flag nets me less XP than derping around in Midfield does. If they even know what the word incentivize means (and I don't mean the kind where you send them your Credit Card info to have a better QOL than everyone else) ...then they sure haven't demonstrated it yet... Not complaining either, rather I'm suggesting you should exploit their current system since maybe that will incentivize them to change it
Fri May 11, 2012 6:18 pm

Frostiken Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am Posts: 1045	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects Gee I wish I could play in these games that feature nobody attacking the flag stand. Seriously, the biggest problem is the lack of defenders, there's no lack of people willing to attack. They aren't attacking the flag because there's usually nobody there to attack. No seriously. Maybe then my CTF games wouldn't end in 5 minutes flat. As it is I can't stand CTF anymore. Last edited by Frostiken on Fri May 11, 2012 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fri May 11, 2012 6:37 pm

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects IMO having accolades that are complex in regards to timing are really what we need now. Hopefully the new accolades which are sensitive to base asset lifetimes are the first step on that path. For example: "Brush Fire": Deal significant damage to enemy players and or deployables which are near the enemy flagstand, and then have a teammate takes the flag soon after. Does not apply if you are the flag-taker. "Flag Guard": Stay near a dropped friendly flag for a certain amount of time before it is returned (via touch or via timer) and then the flag remains on the stand for another period of time. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Fri May 11, 2012 6:38 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

Author

Message

japro

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 am
Posts: 4

Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

Hi,

so in a game as diverse as Tribes there is no way to force people on public servers to actually play in a way that is useful for the team, it can at best be incentivized. The accolades fulfill this purpose in TA as far as I can tell. They are mostly ok i think and for example the "generator party"-problem mostly comes from people getting too many kills indoors and not from actually killing the generator being too rewarding.

Anyway, I play capper/chaser most of the time and my view on the roles of offense/defense is mostly based around that. So basically the role of defense is to keep cappers from grabbing/capping the flag and the role of the offense is to disrupt that defense. So sometimes when i find myself on a server where the defense is so strong that I can't manage to even grab the flag with enough health to have a chance against potential chasers, I switch to juggernaut and play HO concentrating on clearing/disrupting the flag stand. While doing that switch I often see that there already are like 4-5 juggernauts and raiders and keep wondering what they are doing...
When I try to cap the things that kill me the most are HoFs, forcefields, Mines and deployable turrets (well, actually it's mostly chasers that do the actual killing, but it's the damage I take from the aforementioned that makes me way easier to pick off for them), while on the other hand I can pretty much ignore for example Base Turrets.
So when i play HO i keep wondering why i get accolades for destroying Base Turrets and killing random dudes while clearing deployables from the flag stand doesn't give me anything. From a pure accolade based perspective shelling the flag stand is pretty much the most unattractive thing. The only accolades you get are random kills on people that get caught in your mortar spam. I find it even hard to consistently kill the HoF, at best I can force him off the flag and draw his attention. Now that is totally fine since a disrupted HoF that can't just stand on the flag is WAY easier to pass by as a capper so that would be mission accomplished actually.

In short: Killing the stuff that actually hinders the cappers is one of the least rewarded aspects of the game, which I think is an issue.

So I guess it would be nice if there was some sort of mini accolade for destroying deployables (+25 or so) and maybe an accolade that rewards "disrupting" the flag stand (damage enemies near their own flag for example).

Wed May 09, 2012 9:47 am

Tamburlaine

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am
Posts: 1859

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

...

Yes.

_________________
oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer

Wed May 09, 2012 11:18 am

terminalinsanity

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:08 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Canada

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

I dont think accolades need to be used. I think the game simply lacks teamplay elements.

In older tribes games you had tools like the targeting laser, beacon+inv sites, flares, etc... all which encouraged teamplay.

A new player starting out would realize his bomber's only chance at survival is to have a tailgunner with flares, so instead of just hopping into a bomber and taking off, he'll fly around the base trying to pick a tailgunner up first.

New players trying to grab the flag too, would realize the benifits of using the targeting laser to paint the enemy flag pole first for the heavies. Or, for example if you're being harassed by shrikes, sneak into the enemy base and plant beacons near the vpad so your heavies can blow it up

These little tools all add up to a different kind of mindset while playing. You start activly looking for ways to take advantage of your team's abilities, and how you can help your teammates.

Currently, T;A lacks most of these elements and players dont bother thinking about this. They just pick something to do and focus on their own selfish goals for their own score (accolades actually does more to discourage teamwork then anything here) An accolade for repairing the geerator isnt going to encourage any new people to repair it. The same people who enjoyed using gen-powered items will still be the only ones repairing it, only they get bonus credits for it now as well.

_________________

Last edited by terminalinsanity on Wed May 09, 2012 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wed May 09, 2012 11:27 am

Diknak

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 553

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

This problem has been brought up a ton of times.

However, the problem that an accolade isn't given for killing deployables is a minor problem and not the biggest issue at hand.

The much larger issue is the fact that while you have all of those people in the gen room, they are not doing something meaningful by attacking the gen. That itself is the problem. The generator needs a much more important role to play. When that happens, you will value your gen offense instead of considering them useless.

_________________
do || !do;
try;
#Error: Command try not found.

Wed May 09, 2012 11:29 am

caaok

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 1110

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

Yes, though perhaps only points for deployables around the stand. Killing defenders at the stand should also be worth more, nitroning the carrier should be worth points, perhaps with a bonus if you either kill the carrier and/or make the return shortly after. E-grab timing should be more generous. Speed accolades should be bumped at least 50kph each, or another should be added. Flag returns should give points based on distance from your stand, starting at zero for a sizable radius around your own stand. Upgrading structures should be more rewarding. Killing disrupts around your stand should be worth something, as the radius for "flag defender" is pretty small.

_________________
What we lose with hitscan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XevsFIitY

Wed May 09, 2012 11:34 am

Diknak

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 553

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

caaok wrote:

Upgrading structures now provides 2 new accolades with the new patch. 1) Investor. You get points every 2 minutes that a structure you have upgraded is online. 2) Turret Support. You get points for turret kills that you have upgraded.

_________________
do || !do;
try;
#Error: Command try not found.

Wed May 09, 2012 11:44 am

ShockWaveEVE

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Dome City .003 /Medic Sector

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

Diknak wrote:

caaok wrote:

Has anyone noticed that going around your base and killing people is more rewarding than getting the flag? lol it is true.. and investor is helpful and i love turrent support i got it like 10 times yesterday from kills.
Also kills near the enemy flag should be rewarding too.

_________________

^This is EVE.^
Sending data-complete.
----------------
Name-[+EVE]xshockwavex
Kills-26,912
Deaths-8,510
Garbage at dueling great a defending a point(or base)
Rank-

----------------
Statistics Probability Complete.

Fri May 11, 2012 2:46 pm

illerFFN

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1174

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

What aspects? ...does HiRez even have any of those??

As an F2P player, I've noticed that I can literally get a couple kills right at the beginning of the game and then sit in Spectator mode with a macro on and get almost the same amount of XP as I get for topping the Score-board by playing the entire round.

The XP rewards in this game are a joke once you've gotten all the low-hanging badges....
And defending the flag nets me less XP than derping around in Midfield does.
If they even know what the word incentivize means (and I don't mean the kind where you send them your Credit Card info to have a better QOL than everyone else) ...then they sure haven't demonstrated it yet... Not complaining either, rather I'm suggesting you should exploit their current system since maybe that will incentivize them to change it 8-)

Fri May 11, 2012 6:18 pm

Frostiken

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 am
Posts: 1045

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

Gee I wish I could play in these games that feature nobody attacking the flag stand. Seriously, the biggest problem is the lack of defenders, there's no lack of people willing to attack. They aren't attacking the flag because there's usually nobody there to attack.

No seriously. Maybe then my CTF games wouldn't end in 5 minutes flat. As it is I can't stand CTF anymore.

Last edited by Frostiken on Fri May 11, 2012 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri May 11, 2012 6:37 pm

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects

IMO having accolades that are complex in regards to timing are really what we need now. Hopefully the new accolades which are sensitive to base asset lifetimes are the first step on that path.

For example:

"Brush Fire": Deal significant damage to enemy players and or deployables which are near the enemy flagstand, and then have a teammate takes the flag soon after. Does not apply if you are the flag-taker.
"Flag Guard": Stay near a dropped friendly flag for a certain amount of time before it is returned (via touch or via timer) and then the flag remains on the stand for another period of time.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Fri May 11, 2012 6:38 pm

Forum rules

Incentivizing the the "actually important" aspects