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Jetpack's vertical momentum issue
Author	Message
Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Jetpack's vertical momentum issue As anyone who's played this game for more than a few days can testify, if you accidentally fall off a ledge and try to go back up with the jetpack, chances are you won't make it. This phenomenon demonstrates that the jetpack's ability to reverse your vertical movement direction is very flimsy. Now, while you could explain that away with the momentum of your fall multiplied by your mass restricting the (admittedly very weak) jetpack's ability to lift you up, a little while ago I've started noticing a different pattern. If you are falling, and you engage the jetpack, and you hit the ground, it takes you up to about a second to lift back off the ground, and then you're lifting back up more slowly than if you'd disengaged the jetpack and engaged it again. You can test it out for yourself in target practice or map roam; I'd recommend the conduit on crossfire; use a heavy armor for clearer results; go to 3rd person so you can really see the difference in your climb speed. I don't know if this has already been mentioned in ore or more of the numerous physics/jetpack threads, but in case it hasn't, I thought I'd post it. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Sat May 05, 2012 10:11 pm

EvilKoala Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:08 pm Posts: 368	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue The physics are terrible, and it seems no amount of detailed forum posts are going to change that.
Sat May 05, 2012 10:21 pm

TeaL3af Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:30 pm Posts: 767	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue There was an incredibly detailed post a while back where the author pretty much reverse engineered the Jetpack physics and what caused all this weirdness, basically it comes from two things: 1) Jetpacks have pathetic thrust, most of your acceleration actually comes from your initial jump. Bind a key to just jetpack instead of jump+jet and notice how much weaker it is. 2) The Jetpack's acceleration limit also stops you decelerating. Basically once you hit about 70kph the jetpack can no longer alter your velocity. Unfortunately this means if you are falling down at >70kph you can't actually slow yourself at all. This is also why the jetpack can propel you a great distance sideways when standing still, but at speed you have to rely on air control.
Sat May 05, 2012 10:41 pm

Casus125 Beta Tester Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:31 am Posts: 293	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue You get more thrust if you move forward. It's stupid, and fairly counter-intuitive. But basically, if you slip and fall, start flying forward somewhere, and you'll have a much better chance to survive. Do it constantly on Air arena (a notorious banana peel map), and flying forward has saved me countless times. Try it, it works.
Sat May 05, 2012 10:48 pm

dsiOne Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:14 pm Posts: 327 Steam Gamer Name: dsi1	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue The 'jetpacks' in this game are jetpacks in name only. _________________ 100% Inheritance: It's 100% Intuitive and 100% Natural. \|\| Add Targeting Lasers Having to aim from a reference point that doesnt exist is not an intuitive or newbie friendly feature, and it will hurt the game in the long run
Sat May 05, 2012 10:49 pm

blecro Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:09 pm Posts: 192	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue Trilandian wrote: As anyone who's played this game for more than a few days can testify, if you accidentally fall off a ledge and try to go back up with the jetpack, chances are you won't make it. Use the forward jet spin trick and you'll have better luck. More details are in another post. Trilandian wrote: If you are falling, and you engage the jetpack, and you hit the ground, it takes you up to about a second to lift back off the ground, and then you're lifting back up more slowly than if you'd disengaged the jetpack and engaged it again. This is because the jumpjet key doesn't jump if you hit the ground while already holding it.
Sun May 06, 2012 1:07 am

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue blecro wrote: Trilandian wrote: If you are falling, and you engage the jetpack, and you hit the ground, it takes you up to about a second to lift back off the ground, and then you're lifting back up more slowly than if you'd disengaged the jetpack and engaged it again. This is because the jumpjet key doesn't jump if you hit the ground while already holding it. Oooooh, I see. Guess that explains that. Glad the controls are so "intuitive" that I have to go on the friggin forums to know why my jetpack doesn't lift me up. Anyway, thanks for the clarification. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Sun May 06, 2012 6:08 am

Spinebuster Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:28 pm Posts: 397	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue EvilKoala wrote: The physics are terrible, and it seems no amount of detailed forum posts are going to change that. Agreed. I think the only way they are going to get the hint is if people stop playing.
Sun May 06, 2012 10:55 am

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue Spinebuster wrote: EvilKoala wrote: The physics are terrible, and it seems no amount of detailed forum posts are going to change that. Agreed. I think the only way they are going to get the hint is if people stop playing. Trouble is, the physics aren't game-breaking enough to stop T:A from being fun, but just enough to really get on your nerves and sour your experience. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Sun May 06, 2012 11:19 am

Spinebuster Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:28 pm Posts: 397	Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue I agree, the physics dont necessarily break the game, they just make it so its not as enjoyable. The gameplay issues are the ones that break the game. The game has loads of potential to be a great game but it feels like it should be in early beta still with all the work that needs done.
Sun May 06, 2012 8:58 pm

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Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

Author

Message

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

As anyone who's played this game for more than a few days can testify, if you accidentally fall off a ledge and try to go back up with the jetpack, chances are you won't make it.
This phenomenon demonstrates that the jetpack's ability to reverse your vertical movement direction is very flimsy.

Now, while you could explain that away with the momentum of your fall multiplied by your mass restricting the (admittedly very weak) jetpack's ability to lift you up, a little while ago I've started noticing a different pattern.

If you are falling, and you engage the jetpack, and you hit the ground, it takes you up to about a second to lift back off the ground, and then you're lifting back up more slowly than if you'd disengaged the jetpack and engaged it again.

You can test it out for yourself in target practice or map roam; I'd recommend the conduit on crossfire; use a heavy armor for clearer results; go to 3rd person so you can really see the difference in your climb speed.

I don't know if this has already been mentioned in ore or more of the numerous physics/jetpack threads, but in case it hasn't, I thought I'd post it.

_________________
Thump... BOOM
---
My Contributions
Intelligent Turret Placement
Management tools
---
Important Topics
Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF
Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT
Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT
Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC

Sat May 05, 2012 10:11 pm

EvilKoala

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:08 pm
Posts: 368

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

The physics are terrible, and it seems no amount of detailed forum posts are going to change that.

Sat May 05, 2012 10:21 pm

TeaL3af

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:30 pm
Posts: 767

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

There was an incredibly detailed post a while back where the author pretty much reverse engineered the Jetpack physics and what caused all this weirdness, basically it comes from two things:

1) Jetpacks have pathetic thrust, most of your acceleration actually comes from your initial jump. Bind a key to just jetpack instead of jump+jet and notice how much weaker it is.

2) The Jetpack's acceleration limit also stops you decelerating. Basically once you hit about 70kph the jetpack can no longer alter your velocity. Unfortunately this means if you are falling down at >70kph you can't actually slow yourself at all. This is also why the jetpack can propel you a great distance sideways when standing still, but at speed you have to rely on air control.

Sat May 05, 2012 10:41 pm

Casus125

Beta Tester

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:31 am
Posts: 293

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

You get more thrust if you move forward.

It's stupid, and fairly counter-intuitive.

But basically, if you slip and fall, start flying forward somewhere, and you'll have a much better chance to survive.

Do it constantly on Air arena (a notorious banana peel map), and flying forward has saved me countless times.

Try it, it works.

Sat May 05, 2012 10:48 pm

dsiOne

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:14 pm
Posts: 327
Steam Gamer Name: dsi1

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

The 'jetpacks' in this game are jetpacks in name only.

_________________
100% Inheritance: It's 100% Intuitive and 100% Natural. || Add Targeting Lasers
Having to aim from a reference point that doesnt exist is not an intuitive or newbie friendly feature, and it will hurt the game in the long run

Sat May 05, 2012 10:49 pm

blecro

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:09 pm
Posts: 192

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

Trilandian wrote:

As anyone who's played this game for more than a few days can testify, if you accidentally fall off a ledge and try to go back up with the jetpack, chances are you won't make it.

Use the forward jet spin trick and you'll have better luck. More details are in another post.

Trilandian wrote:

If you are falling, and you engage the jetpack, and you hit the ground, it takes you up to about a second to lift back off the ground, and then you're lifting back up more slowly than if you'd disengaged the jetpack and engaged it again.

This is because the jumpjet key doesn't jump if you hit the ground while already holding it.

Sun May 06, 2012 1:07 am

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

blecro wrote:

Trilandian wrote:

This is because the jumpjet key doesn't jump if you hit the ground while already holding it.

Oooooh, I see. Guess that explains that. Glad the controls are so "intuitive" that I have to go on the friggin forums to know why my jetpack doesn't lift me up. :roll:

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

Sun May 06, 2012 6:08 am

Spinebuster

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:28 pm
Posts: 397

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

EvilKoala wrote:

The physics are terrible, and it seems no amount of detailed forum posts are going to change that.

Agreed. I think the only way they are going to get the hint is if people stop playing.

Sun May 06, 2012 10:55 am

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

Spinebuster wrote:

EvilKoala wrote:

The physics are terrible, and it seems no amount of detailed forum posts are going to change that.

Agreed. I think the only way they are going to get the hint is if people stop playing.

Trouble is, the physics aren't game-breaking enough to stop T:A from being fun, but just enough to really get on your nerves and sour your experience.

Sun May 06, 2012 11:19 am

Spinebuster

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:28 pm
Posts: 397

Re: Jetpack's vertical momentum issue

I agree, the physics dont necessarily break the game, they just make it so its not as enjoyable. The gameplay issues are the ones that break the game.

The game has loads of potential to be a great game but it feels like it should be in early beta still with all the work that needs done.

Sun May 06, 2012 8:58 pm

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Jetpack's vertical momentum issue