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Bringing back tribals to Tribes
Author	Message
Rangelost Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm Posts: 157	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes @Eldiran I understand water physics might not be an urgent matter, but if it were attended to at a later time, I feel it would bring an interesting element to the game (despite how much people hated the Winterlake map in Tribes: Vengeance). I agree that compared to other Tribes games where anti-vehicle weapons were almost necessary to destroy vehicles, Tribes: Ascend vehicles are surprisingly fragile. Perhaps they could compromise vulnerability to bullet damage with more base health. Your idea for health regeneration is interesting, but personally, I still feel automatic regeneration does not fit the Tribes gameplay. I think the old systems worked well, and should not be replaced. I thought damage falloff should be removed mostly because it has never been part of the Tribes series, and was obviously taken straight from Global Agenda. It would make snipers insanely overpowered if not adjusted accordingly, though. As for melee weapons, I thought a new key could be added to select (or "toggle") the melee weapon. That way, players could still use the current "one hit" key. The new key would give players a descent way of defending themselves when running out of ammo (instead of commiting suicide), they would be able to land multiple hits quickly on immobile targets as well (an Infiltrator's dream), and who knows, it would be more convenient for people who just like a melee duel once a while. @Madcat2k3 It is a matter of balance. Content helps increase the playerbase. Aesthetics, on the other hand, help increase the income, which is required for developing content. Oh, and this is the "Feedback & Constructive Discussion" forum. It is only common sense to respect that, isn't it? Thanks for reading! _________________
Sat May 05, 2012 6:16 pm

DrEuthanasia Beta Tester Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm Posts: 1101	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes I've heard one other suggestion to health regeneration which you might at least consider. In summary, make firing a weapon reset the regen timer as well as taking damage, so you can't heal unless you're not fighting back.
Sat May 05, 2012 6:20 pm

Rangelost Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm Posts: 157	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes @DrEuthanasia I could swear I have already seen this mechanic in another game before. Or perhaps I am confounding it with PvP flagging. Either way, it would be a perfect approach to remove that advantage from automatic bullet weapons while preserving the automatic health regeneration. Not bad, now why isn't it like that already? Thanks for reading! _________________
Sun May 06, 2012 3:22 am

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes On the subject of health regeneraion, I'm pretty sure they won't touch it. Why? Take a guess (Hint: It's a 3-letter acronym that's also a fish). _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Sun May 06, 2012 6:12 am

Eldiran Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm Posts: 256	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes Rangelost wrote: @Eldiran I understand water physics might not be an urgent matter, but if it were attended to at a later time, I feel it would bring an interesting element to the game (despite how much people hated the Winterlake map in Tribes: Vengeance). True. Quote: I agree that compared to other Tribes games where anti-vehicle weapons were almost necessary to destroy vehicles, Tribes: Ascend vehicles are surprisingly fragile. Perhaps they could compromise vulnerability to bullet damage with more base health. Maybe so, though I find vehicles are at a pretty nice level right now, and there's not much reason to risk upsetting that balance. Quote: Your idea for health regeneration is interesting, but personally, I still feel automatic regeneration does not fit the Tribes gameplay. I think the old systems worked well, and should not be replaced. Regeneration is pretty ingrained in the system by now, so I'm leery of removing it (not that it could happen, as Trilandian points out). Also, I'd hate to see a nerf to chasing -- health regeneration is pretty much the only advantage chasers have right now. Quote: I thought damage falloff should be removed mostly because it has never been part of the Tribes series, and was obviously taken straight from Global Agenda. It would make snipers insanely overpowered if not adjusted accordingly, though. Since falloff is only applied to un-Tribes-y weapons, it doesn't seem like a problem. Removing it would buff all the weapons everyone complains about, anyway. Quote: As for melee weapons, I thought a new key could be added to select (or "toggle") the melee weapon. That way, players could still use the current "one hit" key. The new key would give players a descent way of defending themselves when running out of ammo (instead of commiting suicide), they would be able to land multiple hits quickly on immobile targets as well (an Infiltrator's dream), and who knows, it would be more convenient for people who just like a melee duel once a while. If it's a more potent melee weapon, then sure, I could see that. But maybe in addition to the current melee weapon. I like being able to fire a shot and then quickly finish with a melee. (A rare occurence, but very satisfying when it happens.)
Sun May 06, 2012 1:54 pm

starlinvf Beta Tester Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am Posts: 1478	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes Eldiran wrote: Since falloff is only applied to un-Tribes-y weapons, it doesn't seem like a problem. Removing it would buff all the weapons everyone complains about, anyway. One would assume they lower the overall DPS to compensate for the extended effective range. Snipers would probably be the exception considering the extreme ranges they can operate at. _________________ "Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."
Sun May 06, 2012 2:02 pm

shazbeta Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:07 pm Posts: 185	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes 1) I never played any of the previous Tribes games. 2) I agree with everything you said. 3) Your English is better than most native speakers.
Sun May 06, 2012 8:10 pm

Rangelost Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm Posts: 157	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes @Trilandian Touché, although this is supposed to be Tribes. You know, the best multiplayer online first person shooter? It didn't earn that title by trying to copy Unreal and Quake back in the day. It was one of a kind, and I think it should stay that way. I understand that trying to make something new is a considerable risk, as no one knows whether the average player will like it or not (and we all know how "constructive" some people are in their reviews). But in the end, making a Tribes game whose elements are inspired from other games more than from the Tribes series itself does not make a unique product, even less so a faithful sequel to the previous games. @Eldiran Since the game is still in its early release — although it does not feel much different from the beta (I expected a few 30 more maps!) —, they can still experiment around a lot, and should not be afraid to do so. Sure, children with turn on their [Caps Lock] and come "express" their thoughts on the forums, but that is inevitable, no matter the changes. Players do not make the games; they play it and provide feedback to the developers. It is the latter who create the game the way they want it to be, and choose to listen (or not) to the feedback given. The problem arises when the community is half tribals, half fishermen (get it?). I think your ideas are interesting, and I agree to have different ideals (I am most likely biased with nostalgy). I have always loved "hardcore" games, and those might not be the most financially profitable. No matter, it is good to see people on the forums expressing their opinions gracefully. @starlinvf Even if snipers did very little damage, I am sure they would still kick my heavy armored shazbot. They just never miss! Which is strange, considering how I would rarely get less than 30 midairs or headshots per match in Starsiege: TRIBES, Tribes II and Tribes: Vengeance, but I can barely get one per match in Tribes: Ascend. Is there something I am missing (aside from my target)? @shazbeta [VGCR] You Rock! Thanks for reading! _________________
Sun May 06, 2012 11:44 pm

Trilandian Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm Posts: 485	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes Rangelost wrote: @Trilandian Touché, although this is supposed to be Tribes. You know, the best multiplayer online first person shooter? It didn't earn that title by trying to copy Unreal and Quake back in the day. It was one of a kind, and I think it should stay that way. I understand that trying to make something new is a considerable risk, as no one knows whether the average player will like it or not (and we all know how "constructive" some people are in their reviews). But in the end, making a Tribes game whose elements are inspired from other games more than from the Tribes series itself does not make a unique product, even less so a faithful sequel to the previous games. Hey, man, I agree completely. I'm just playing devil's advocate. _________________ Thump... BOOM --- My Contributions Intelligent Turret Placement Management tools --- Important Topics Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC
Mon May 07, 2012 2:42 am

starlinvf Beta Tester Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am Posts: 1478	Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes Rangelost wrote: @starlinvf Even if snipers did very little damage, I am sure they would still kick my heavy armored shazbot. They just never miss! Which is strange, considering how I would rarely get less than 30 midairs or headshots per match in Starsiege: TRIBES, Tribes II and Tribes: Vengeance, but I can barely get one per match in Tribes: Ascend. Is there something I am missing (aside from my target)? Thanks for reading! Its a combination of things actually. The disks are slower, inheritance is weaker, the reticule is slightly off center, and above all else, the hit box of the disk is almost the size of an atom. In the older games, there always seemed to be some method of giving the disk proximity to register a hit. In T1/2 it just looks like the disks were pretty large, and in T:V either the disk or player hit boxes seemed to effectively grow at higher speeds. Whats kind of disheartening in T:A is that the bullets have a larger hitbox size then the explosives. If you look back at some of the Plasma threads, someone did a test on the hitbox size of the Plasma gun and stumbled onto the fact that some of the bullets were exceptionally large compared to the visuals. At the top of that list was the SN7 pistol and the Falcon SMG. _________________ "Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."
Mon May 07, 2012 4:46 am

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Bringing back tribals to Tribes

Author

Message

Rangelost

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm
Posts: 157

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

@Eldiran
I understand water physics might not be an urgent matter, but if it were attended to at a later time, I feel it would bring an interesting element to the game (despite how much people hated the Winterlake map in Tribes: Vengeance).

I agree that compared to other Tribes games where anti-vehicle weapons were almost necessary to destroy vehicles, Tribes: Ascend vehicles are surprisingly fragile. Perhaps they could compromise vulnerability to bullet damage with more base health.

Your idea for health regeneration is interesting, but personally, I still feel automatic regeneration does not fit the Tribes gameplay. I think the old systems worked well, and should not be replaced.

I thought damage falloff should be removed mostly because it has never been part of the Tribes series, and was obviously taken straight from Global Agenda. It would make snipers insanely overpowered if not adjusted accordingly, though.

As for melee weapons, I thought a new key could be added to select (or "toggle") the melee weapon. That way, players could still use the current "one hit" key. The new key would give players a descent way of defending themselves when running out of ammo (instead of commiting suicide), they would be able to land multiple hits quickly on immobile targets as well (an Infiltrator's dream), and who knows, it would be more convenient for people who just like a melee duel once a while.

@Madcat2k3
It is a matter of balance. Content helps increase the playerbase. Aesthetics, on the other hand, help increase the income, which is required for developing content.

Oh, and this is the "Feedback & Constructive Discussion" forum. It is only common sense to respect that, isn't it?

Thanks for reading!

_________________

Sat May 05, 2012 6:16 pm

DrEuthanasia

Beta Tester

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 1101

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

I've heard one other suggestion to health regeneration which you might at least consider. In summary, make firing a weapon reset the regen timer as well as taking damage, so you can't heal unless you're not fighting back.

Sat May 05, 2012 6:20 pm

Rangelost

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm
Posts: 157

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

@DrEuthanasia
I could swear I have already seen this mechanic in another game before. Or perhaps I am confounding it with PvP flagging. Either way, it would be a perfect approach to remove that advantage from automatic bullet weapons while preserving the automatic health regeneration. Not bad, now why isn't it like that already?

Thanks for reading!

_________________

Sun May 06, 2012 3:22 am

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

On the subject of health regeneraion, I'm pretty sure they won't touch it. Why? Take a guess (Hint: It's a 3-letter acronym that's also a fish).

_________________
Thump... BOOM
---
My Contributions
Intelligent Turret Placement
Management tools
---
Important Topics
Missing/Broken Features - tinyurl.com/TA-MaBF
Tactics tutorial - tinyurl.com/TA-HRMaTATT
Call down turrets - tinyurl.com/TA-CDT
Varying unlock costs - tinyurl.com/TA-HRWTVUC

Sun May 06, 2012 6:12 am

Eldiran

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 pm
Posts: 256

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

Rangelost wrote:

True.

Quote:

I agree that compared to other Tribes games where anti-vehicle weapons were almost necessary to destroy vehicles, Tribes: Ascend vehicles are surprisingly fragile. Perhaps they could compromise vulnerability to bullet damage with more base health.

Maybe so, though I find vehicles are at a pretty nice level right now, and there's not much reason to risk upsetting that balance.

Quote:

Your idea for health regeneration is interesting, but personally, I still feel automatic regeneration does not fit the Tribes gameplay. I think the old systems worked well, and should not be replaced.

Regeneration is pretty ingrained in the system by now, so I'm leery of removing it (not that it could happen, as Trilandian points out). Also, I'd hate to see a nerf to chasing -- health regeneration is pretty much the only advantage chasers have right now.

Quote:

I thought damage falloff should be removed mostly because it has never been part of the Tribes series, and was obviously taken straight from Global Agenda. It would make snipers insanely overpowered if not adjusted accordingly, though.

Since falloff is only applied to un-Tribes-y weapons, it doesn't seem like a problem. Removing it would buff all the weapons everyone complains about, anyway.

Quote:

As for melee weapons, I thought a new key could be added to select (or "toggle") the melee weapon. That way, players could still use the current "one hit" key. The new key would give players a descent way of defending themselves when running out of ammo (instead of commiting suicide), they would be able to land multiple hits quickly on immobile targets as well (an Infiltrator's dream), and who knows, it would be more convenient for people who just like a melee duel once a while.

If it's a more potent melee weapon, then sure, I could see that. But maybe in addition to the current melee weapon. I like being able to fire a shot and then quickly finish with a melee. (A rare occurence, but very satisfying when it happens.)

Sun May 06, 2012 1:54 pm

starlinvf

Beta Tester

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am
Posts: 1478

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

Eldiran wrote:

Since falloff is only applied to un-Tribes-y weapons, it doesn't seem like a problem. Removing it would buff all the weapons everyone complains about, anyway.

One would assume they lower the overall DPS to compensate for the extended effective range. Snipers would probably be the exception considering the extreme ranges they can operate at.

_________________
"Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."

Sun May 06, 2012 2:02 pm

shazbeta

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 185

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

1) I never played any of the previous Tribes games.
2) I agree with everything you said.
3) Your English is better than most native speakers.

Sun May 06, 2012 8:10 pm

Rangelost

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:09 pm
Posts: 157

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

@Trilandian
Touché, although this is supposed to be Tribes. You know, the best multiplayer online first person shooter? It didn't earn that title by trying to copy Unreal and Quake back in the day. It was one of a kind, and I think it should stay that way.

I understand that trying to make something new is a considerable risk, as no one knows whether the average player will like it or not (and we all know how "constructive" some people are in their reviews). But in the end, making a Tribes game whose elements are inspired from other games more than from the Tribes series itself does not make a unique product, even less so a faithful sequel to the previous games.

@Eldiran
Since the game is still in its early release — although it does not feel much different from the beta (I expected a few 30 more maps!) —, they can still experiment around a lot, and should not be afraid to do so. Sure, children with turn on their [Caps Lock] and come "express" their thoughts on the forums, but that is inevitable, no matter the changes.

Players do not make the games; they play it and provide feedback to the developers. It is the latter who create the game the way they want it to be, and choose to listen (or not) to the feedback given. The problem arises when the community is half tribals, half fishermen (get it?).

I think your ideas are interesting, and I agree to have different ideals (I am most likely biased with nostalgy). I have always loved "hardcore" games, and those might not be the most financially profitable. No matter, it is good to see people on the forums expressing their opinions gracefully.

@starlinvf
Even if snipers did very little damage, I am sure they would still kick my heavy armored shazbot. They just never miss! Which is strange, considering how I would rarely get less than 30 midairs or headshots per match in Starsiege: TRIBES, Tribes II and Tribes: Vengeance, but I can barely get one per match in Tribes: Ascend. Is there something I am missing (aside from my target)?

@shazbeta
[VGCR] You Rock!

Thanks for reading!

_________________

Sun May 06, 2012 11:44 pm

Trilandian

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 485

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

Rangelost wrote:

Hey, man, I agree completely. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Mon May 07, 2012 2:42 am

starlinvf

Beta Tester

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am
Posts: 1478

Re: Bringing back tribals to Tribes

Rangelost wrote:

@starlinvf
Even if snipers did very little damage, I am sure they would still kick my heavy armored shazbot. They just never miss! Which is strange, considering how I would rarely get less than 30 midairs or headshots per match in Starsiege: TRIBES, Tribes II and Tribes: Vengeance, but I can barely get one per match in Tribes: Ascend. Is there something I am missing (aside from my target)?

Thanks for reading!

Its a combination of things actually. The disks are slower, inheritance is weaker, the reticule is slightly off center, and above all else, the hit box of the disk is almost the size of an atom. In the older games, there always seemed to be some method of giving the disk proximity to register a hit. In T1/2 it just looks like the disks were pretty large, and in T:V either the disk or player hit boxes seemed to effectively grow at higher speeds.

Whats kind of disheartening in T:A is that the bullets have a larger hitbox size then the explosives. If you look back at some of the Plasma threads, someone did a test on the hitbox size of the Plasma gun and stumbled onto the fact that some of the bullets were exceptionally large compared to the visuals. At the top of that list was the SN7 pistol and the Falcon SMG.

_________________
"Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."

Mon May 07, 2012 4:46 am

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Bringing back tribals to Tribes