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The Brutes real role.
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CocaneStyle Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:12 am Posts: 18	The Brutes real role. Here I will explain certain things that will Buff the Brute enough to bring it into a unique role of its own, this includes pretty much everything about the Brute that needs change. First, I will establish the philosophy of what will make the Brute unique to all other classes. The role of the Brute is supposed to an Direct Combat Heavy, slanted towards a certain play-style depending on the chosen pack. Energy Pack=Heavy Soldier Survival Pack=All-rounder Heavy Shield Pack=Heavy Point-man The HSP is the only pack that needs buffing and is covered later. What will actually make the Brute unique are not his weapons or packs, but the Brute himself. Base armor Stats: 2400 Health 80 Energy Current armor upgrades: Upgrade 1: +100 health. Upgrade 2: -25% health regeneration delay. Upgrade 3: +5 energy. Upgrade 4: +25% health regeneration rate. Upgrade 5: +100 health. Result: 2600 (2800) Health 85 (120) Energy Post-Buff upgrades: Upgrade 1: +200 health. Upgrade 2: -25% health regeneration delay. Upgrade 3: +20 energy. Upgrade 4: +25% health regeneration rate. Upgrade 5: +200 health. Result: 2800 (3000) Health 100 (135*) Energy With Survival Pack ** With Energy Pack Altogether this buff amounts to just adding 200 HP and 15 Energy to the Brute. What does that do? Well one the Brute now REALLY stands out when it comes to survivability. 2800 Hp over 2600 adds a noticeable health buffer for things like splash damage, using the Survival Pack to bring it up to 3000 will only do so further. Bringing Energy to 100 won't just make the Brute a bit more mobile, but this actually makes the Heavy Shield Pack do almost as good as the Raider's without the +10 energy upgrade. You might Not know this but the Raiders Shield Pack and the Brutes Heavy Shield Pack are actually exactly the same! The only reason the Raiders performs better is because he has much more Energy. Both Shield Packs maxed out absorb roughly 8 damage per 1 energy, meaning a Raider can absorb 880 damage while the Brute can only absorb 680. With 100 energy he can now absorb 800 damage, that coupled with Potential Energy and 200 extra health will mean the Brute can endure massive amounts of explosive damage. The Heavy Shield Pack buff is simple: Pre-Buff: Upgrade 1: Improved shield effect. Upgrade 2: -50% energy drain. Upgrade 3: Improved shield effect. Post-Buff: Upgrade 1: Improved shield effect. Upgrade 2: -50% energy drain. Upgrade 3: Improved shield effect. Upgrade 4: No longer passively drains energy when activated. (This means that when the Heavy Shield Pack is activated it no longer passively drains energy, it stays the same as when you turned it on unless you receive damage.) The Heavy Plasma Cannon and Gladiator also need to swap positions, this should speak for itself. Viable builds with current weapons: HSF/ASG HSF/Colt HSF/HPC Glad/HPC Viable builds when switching Glad and HPC: HSF/ASG HSF/Colt HSF/Glad HPC/Glad HPC/ASG HPC/Colt To those guys who say you would have to nerf the Glad to put it in secondary, wow, that is stupid on so many levels. Light Sticky Grenades also need some love, mainly in the form of the Brute carrying a assload of them as a substitute for the Glad. What balances the amazing endurance and relatively excellent mobility this kind of Brute would have? One is the fact that it has a legitimate reason to Not have an auto, it's actually competitive without it, and it's role is now unique and is no longer stepping on the toes or having its toes stepped on by other classes. Last edited by CocaneStyle on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thu May 31, 2012 11:20 pm

DemoEvolved Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:28 am Posts: 2031	Re: The Brutes real role. OK so you say you want a flat +200 hitpoints, extra 15 energy and a shield pack that does not deplete when turned on... Ok, sure I'll use that. I already use the Brute to heavy cap and camp gen rooms. I mean why stop there, why not give him as much energy as the Raider? And you could boost the heavy energy regen so his pack stays on more than 9 seconds, well 11 with your extra 15 energy. Cause the Medium can keep his pack on for what like a minute-twenty? Now then you want to swap the glad and plasma, but then how can I two shot a medium with 1 disk splash and 1 hot air? I won't be able to do that. Aww...
Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:13 am

Haar-like Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:52 am Posts: 122	Re: The Brutes real role. ill always take moar hp and en on my brute but that HSP business is a tad too much. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGfYMQdq8A
Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:44 am

Johnneh1 Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 am Posts: 88	Re: The Brutes real role. The only set up I use at the moment is HPS/PC, Fractal, survival, potential energy and ultra cap, Mainly i cap with this.. which is fun but a fatty getting gotta go fast just doesn't seem right to me but thats a story for another thread. When i can't cap i kill gen and generally brawl.. i have never used the shield pack, i don't understand why you would trade mobility to mitigate damage unless you HoF which the DMB can do better. I think the only thing that keeps brutes and heavies in general from doing everything at the moment is automatics and the ability to hit my fat ass at all ranges... coz i'm fat! allot of people though the brute was weak.. i never believed that to be true as i've played him since i unlocked him, you just have to be able to use him. I think i've gone off topic somewhere. _________________ T1 - Bypher T2 - {H} Bypher T:V - KmA_Johnneh T:A - Johnneh
Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:49 am

Pittyswains Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:36 am Posts: 2120	Re: The Brutes real role. heavy capping in jug is where it's at. Really weak self damage from ego/MKD = weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee _________________ shayd wrote: Ok But why do all combats I see take place like this: Two or more guys slide on the ground at huge speed which in real life would make your shoe evaporate to other dimension and meantime spamming those bombs or new players trying to be fair shooting a machine gun
Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 am

CocaneStyle Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:12 am Posts: 18	Re: The Brutes real role. Haar-like wrote: ill always take moar hp and en on my brute but that HSP business is a tad too much. DemoEvolved wrote: a shield pack that does not deplete when turned on... Ok, sure I'll use that. You misunderstood, it doesn't drain your energy as long as you don't take any damage. DemoEvolved wrote: I mean why stop there, why not give him as much energy as the Raider? And you could boost the heavy energy regen so his pack stays on more than 9 seconds, well 11 with your extra 15 energy. Cause the Medium can keep his pack on for what like a minute-twenty? Because he isn't supposed to have a s*** of mobility, just noticeably more then the other heavys. If you want him to have more mobility outdoors equip the energy pack. Johnneh1 wrote: When i can't cap i kill gen and generally brawl.. i have never used the shield pack, i don't understand why you would trade mobility to mitigate damage unless you HoF which the DMB can do better. For Brawling indoors the HSP is great, its basically 680 quickly regenerating HP, with potential energy you can bounce between loosing energy and HP having quite a bit of staying power.
Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:06 am

Johnneh1 Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 am Posts: 88	Re: The Brutes real role. CocaneStyle wrote: For Brawling indoors the HSP is great, its basically 680 quickly regenerating HP, with potential energy you can bounce between loosing energy and HP having quite a bit of staying power. I've never really brawled much in doors useually kill the gen and get out but i will give this a go! _________________ T1 - Bypher T2 - {H} Bypher T:V - KmA_Johnneh T:A - Johnneh
Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:55 am

naqel Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am Posts: 344	Re: The Brutes real role. Brute problems are poor design decisions. -Taking the Energy pack out of the base Energy pool(Brute and Soldier get a +5 Energy instead of +10) -Reducing both the recovery and the pool of Energy on heavy classes(try out the brute with his energy pack, he's still slower/less mobile than the mediums). -Overall very weak weapons on account of potentially highest survivability(which leaves the class with both pathetic weapons(not enough damage/range) and survivability(zero mobility as a heavy)) Do note that only one of those affects the Brute exclusively. "Fixes" in the OP... Well, let's say they'd break more than they would fix. About the only good idea there is to swap Gladiator and PC, and it's not an original. _________________ patchnotes wrote: Voicepacks are now available to purchase.
Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:05 am

danshyu Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:10 am Posts: 28	Re: The Brutes real role. Again, Brute is absolutly fine. The HP buff you suggest is quite overboard. HSP buff? maybe. But the one thing Brute curently desperatly need is the ability to give adequate chase. Something that all dog fighting disk classes need to be able to do. They can probably fix this by adding the thrust ability to one of Brute's packs. Brute is a very powerful dog fighter provided if it can reach the enemy in time.
Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:38 am

CRAWMAN Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:49 pm Posts: 404	Re: The Brutes real role. Hmmm...most of the Brutes I see are kamikazee fractal spammers
Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:40 am

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The Brutes real role.

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CocaneStyle

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:12 am
Posts: 18

The Brutes real role.

Here I will explain certain things that will Buff the Brute enough to bring it into a unique role of its own,
this includes pretty much everything about the Brute that needs change.

First, I will establish the philosophy of what will make the Brute unique to all other classes.
The role of the Brute is supposed to an Direct Combat Heavy, slanted towards a certain play-style depending on the chosen pack.

Energy Pack=Heavy Soldier
Survival Pack=All-rounder
Heavy Shield Pack=Heavy Point-man
The HSP is the only pack that needs buffing and is covered later.

What will actually make the Brute unique are not his weapons or packs, but the Brute himself.
Base armor Stats: 2400 Health 80 Energy

Current armor upgrades:
Upgrade 1: +100 health.
Upgrade 2: -25% health regeneration delay.
Upgrade 3: +5 energy.
Upgrade 4: +25% health regeneration rate.
Upgrade 5: +100 health.

Result:
2600 (2800*) Health
85 (120**) Energy

Post-Buff upgrades:
Upgrade 1: +200 health.
Upgrade 2: -25% health regeneration delay.
Upgrade 3: +20 energy.
Upgrade 4: +25% health regeneration rate.
Upgrade 5: +200 health.

Result:
2800 (3000*) Health
100 (135**) Energy
* With Survival Pack ** With Energy Pack

Altogether this buff amounts to just adding 200 HP and 15 Energy to the Brute. What does that do?
Well one the Brute now REALLY stands out when it comes to survivability.

2800 Hp over 2600 adds a noticeable health buffer for things like splash damage, using the Survival Pack to bring it up to 3000 will only do so further. Bringing Energy to 100 won't just make the Brute a bit more mobile, but this actually makes the Heavy Shield Pack do almost as good as the Raider's without the +10 energy upgrade.

You might Not know this but the Raiders Shield Pack and the Brutes Heavy Shield Pack are actually exactly the same! The only reason the Raiders performs better is because he has much more Energy. Both Shield Packs maxed out absorb roughly 8 damage per 1 energy, meaning a Raider can absorb 880 damage while the Brute can only absorb 680.

With 100 energy he can now absorb 800 damage, that coupled with Potential Energy and 200 extra health will mean the Brute can endure massive amounts of explosive damage.

The Heavy Shield Pack buff is simple:

Pre-Buff:
Upgrade 1: Improved shield effect.
Upgrade 2: -50% energy drain.
Upgrade 3: Improved shield effect.

Post-Buff:
Upgrade 1: Improved shield effect.
Upgrade 2: -50% energy drain.
Upgrade 3: Improved shield effect.
Upgrade 4: No longer passively drains energy when activated.
(This means that when the Heavy Shield Pack is activated it no longer passively drains energy, it stays the same as when you turned it on unless you receive damage.)

The Heavy Plasma Cannon and Gladiator also need to swap positions, this should speak for itself.

Viable builds with current weapons:
HSF/ASG
HSF/Colt
HSF/HPC
Glad/HPC

Viable builds when switching Glad and HPC:
HSF/ASG
HSF/Colt
HSF/Glad
HPC/Glad
HPC/ASG
HPC/Colt

To those guys who say you would have to nerf the Glad to put it in secondary, wow, that is stupid on so many levels.

Light Sticky Grenades also need some love, mainly in the form of the Brute carrying a assload of them as a substitute for the Glad.

What balances the amazing endurance and relatively excellent mobility this kind of Brute would have?
One is the fact that it has a legitimate reason to Not have an auto, it's actually competitive without it, and it's role is now unique and is no longer stepping on the toes or having its toes stepped on by other classes.

Last edited by CocaneStyle on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu May 31, 2012 11:20 pm

DemoEvolved

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:28 am
Posts: 2031

Re: The Brutes real role.

OK so you say you want a flat +200 hitpoints, extra 15 energy and a shield pack that does not deplete when turned on... Ok, sure I'll use that. I already use the Brute to heavy cap and camp gen rooms.
I mean why stop there, why not give him as much energy as the Raider? And you could boost the heavy energy regen so his pack stays on more than 9 seconds, well 11 with your extra 15 energy. Cause the Medium can keep his pack on for what like a minute-twenty?

Now then you want to swap the glad and plasma, but then how can I two shot a medium with 1 disk splash and 1 hot air? I won't be able to do that. Aww...

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:13 am

Haar-like

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:52 am
Posts: 122

Re: The Brutes real role.

ill always take moar hp and en on my brute but that HSP business is a tad too much.

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGfYMQdq8A

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:44 am

Johnneh1

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 am
Posts: 88

Re: The Brutes real role.

The only set up I use at the moment is HPS/PC, Fractal, survival, potential energy and ultra cap,

Mainly i cap with this.. which is fun but a fatty getting gotta go fast just doesn't seem right to me but thats a story for another thread.

When i can't cap i kill gen and generally brawl.. i have never used the shield pack, i don't understand why you would trade mobility to mitigate damage unless you HoF which the DMB can do better.

I think the only thing that keeps brutes and heavies in general from doing everything at the moment is automatics and the ability to hit my fat ass at all ranges... coz i'm fat!

allot of people though the brute was weak.. i never believed that to be true as i've played him since i unlocked him, you just have to be able to use him.

I think i've gone off topic somewhere.

_________________
T1 - Bypher
T2 - {H} Bypher
T:V - KmA_Johnneh
T:A - Johnneh

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:49 am

Pittyswains

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:36 am
Posts: 2120

Re: The Brutes real role.

heavy capping in jug is where it's at.

Really weak self damage from ego/MKD = weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

_________________

shayd wrote:

Ok But why do all combats I see take place like this: Two or more guys slide on the ground at huge speed which in real life would make your shoe evaporate to other dimension and meantime spamming those bombs or new players trying to be fair shooting a machine gun

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 am

CocaneStyle

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:12 am
Posts: 18

Re: The Brutes real role.

Haar-like wrote:

ill always take moar hp and en on my brute but that HSP business is a tad too much.

DemoEvolved wrote:

a shield pack that does not deplete when turned on... Ok, sure I'll use that.

You misunderstood, it doesn't drain your energy as long as you don't take any damage.

DemoEvolved wrote:

I mean why stop there, why not give him as much energy as the Raider? And you could boost the heavy energy regen so his pack stays on more than 9 seconds, well 11 with your extra 15 energy. Cause the Medium can keep his pack on for what like a minute-twenty?

Because he isn't supposed to have a s*** of mobility, just noticeably more then the other heavys. If you want him to have more mobility outdoors equip the energy pack.

Johnneh1 wrote:

When i can't cap i kill gen and generally brawl.. i have never used the shield pack, i don't understand why you would trade mobility to mitigate damage unless you HoF which the DMB can do better.

For Brawling indoors the HSP is great, its basically 680 quickly regenerating HP, with potential energy you can bounce between loosing energy and HP having quite a bit of staying power.

Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:06 am

Johnneh1

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 am
Posts: 88

Re: The Brutes real role.

CocaneStyle wrote:

For Brawling indoors the HSP is great, its basically 680 quickly regenerating HP, with potential energy you can bounce between loosing energy and HP having quite a bit of staying power.

I've never really brawled much in doors useually kill the gen and get out but i will give this a go!

_________________
T1 - Bypher
T2 - {H} Bypher
T:V - KmA_Johnneh
T:A - Johnneh

Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:55 am

naqel

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 344

Re: The Brutes real role.

Brute problems are poor design decisions.

-Taking the Energy pack out of the base Energy pool(Brute and Soldier get a +5 Energy instead of +10)
-Reducing both the recovery and the pool of Energy on heavy classes(try out the brute with his energy pack, he's still slower/less mobile than the mediums).
-Overall very weak weapons on account of potentially highest survivability(which leaves the class with both pathetic weapons(not enough damage/range) and survivability(zero mobility as a heavy))

Do note that only one of those affects the Brute exclusively.

"Fixes" in the OP... Well, let's say they'd break more than they would fix. About the only good idea there is to swap Gladiator and PC, and it's not an original.

_________________

patchnotes wrote:

Voicepacks are now available to purchase.

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:05 am

danshyu

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:10 am
Posts: 28

Re: The Brutes real role.

Again, Brute is absolutly fine. The HP buff you suggest is quite overboard. HSP buff? maybe. But the one thing Brute curently desperatly need is the ability to give adequate chase. Something that all dog fighting disk classes need to be able to do. They can probably fix this by adding the thrust ability to one of Brute's packs. Brute is a very powerful dog fighter provided if it can reach the enemy in time.

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:38 am

CRAWMAN

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:49 pm
Posts: 404

Re: The Brutes real role.

Hmmm...most of the Brutes I see are kamikazee fractal spammers :roll:

Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:40 am

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The Brutes real role.