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Why I'm probably going to leave.
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Sprout Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:49 am Posts: 2	Why I'm probably going to leave. Hey there, folks. I'm a noob. No doubt about it. This is my first experience with Tribes, just downloaded and started a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately, I expect I won't be a noob for long.. in fact, I simply won't be here. Here's why: Up until level 5 or so, things were pretty cool. Yeah, I'm kinda a lousy shot, but I found with juggernaut I could position myself well and do a bit of damage to the enemy's base. Maybe sneak in and take out the generator, or occasionally defend one. It was actually enough fun I thought, sure, I'll try this VIP thing and maybe a new class or two. Then I hit level 5 and it seemed things changed. Suddenly I became absolutely useless to the team. More than that, so did most of the team it seemed. Everything started to be done by maybe three or four guys on each team -- if we're lucky. If we're not lucky, the other team is all gold and my team is.. well..dead. And you know, maybe it's just I need to work on getting better skilled, but I don't play to work. And I especially don't pay to work. And since being basically a mobile ammo drop isn't all that fun, I expect I won't be playing this game at all very soon. Now to be a bit more constructive here's some of the specific problems I'm having: 1. Lag is hell. Dunno what to do about this.. I'm on a broadband connection, my computer, while not the latest and greatest, is no slouch. (Used to be it was cutting edge, but that's when you needed a separate PhysX card to get PhysX, which is what I have). Yet still the game feels like I'm missing more than half of what's going on around me. I'm playing on the default settings it established for my computer.. if that's a mistake then can someone tell me why they're the default? 2. Visor crack, shake, and smoking is insane. As a new player, I'm already having enough trouble tracking where people are, and when I start to get injured you make it even harder? Incidentally, has anyone on the dev team heard of Q-sound or hell, even surround? Because if I could hear what direction shots were coming from, that might help. 3. Team balance. As I pointed out briefly above, if the game had some sort of rudimentary balancing system rather than "Everybody pick the team they want" the steamrolls might not happen so often. And you know the sucky thing about steamrolls? Even if I happen to get onto the winning team, it's still no fun because I'm still basically worthless as assistance to my own team. Which leads me to: 4. Player skill balance. Don't shove the noobs in with guys who've been playing for however many months of beta (or even years if you count previous incarnations of the game in). The only way Free-to-Play games make money is if you have enough people at the low end who want to unlock higher level content. But by making me be essentially useless because I'm just so outclassed by the other folks on the team (and no disrespect intended.. I watch some of what you guys do and go "holy crap.. that's amazing") and making it impossible to really learn because by the time I start to realize what's happening I'm already back in the spawn queue just makes me go, "Jesus, what's the point?" Consider putting players in ranks. Ideally overlapping ranks so that there's a some sense of smooth transition. Because currently, the transition is "Here, have some smooth sailing on this little boat" to "Here, now go swimming in the atlantic with these anvils tied to your shoes." Consider ranks like 1-5, 1-10, 5-15, 10-20, 15-25, etc, so that at any point you can be playing with people who are lower or higher than you, but not so far away that you're just a mobile ammo drop. For those of you in the community who get what I'm saying, something that you guys can do right now, when you see some poor schlep like me keep coming up on the wrong end of the killed listing, consider helping out -- or even just providing a word of encouragement. It could go a long way. Also, here's some other things you might want to consider: When I hit ESC, it should pop up a menu of some sort, instantly. I don't care if it's loading a game or connecting with the server. ESC should let me get out of whatever it's doing, even if it has to lose a possible connection doing it. Team based games require some means of communication. No, stumbling around menus is not sufficient. If you're unable to properly do voice connection, I would first suggest you consider not implementing a team based game. Otherwise, the least you should do is provide some sort of links to make it easy to connect to where people are communicating. Of course, maybe none of this matters, maybe I'm just the whiny noob who doesn't have the skill or the patience and masochism to suffer through until he gets it and you're not interested in having those kind of people. And if that's the case, that's all fine. But the one other thing you should remember is I'm also the kind of guy who's willing to shell out money if I'm enjoying myself -- and I'm not the only person like me out there, I'm just the one who's willing to be vocal about sucking and what it's like down here at the bottom. Now, I'll probably stick it out for a little bit longer, but to be honest, my tolerance at feeling useless for my team is rapidly wearing out, and there's a lot of other games I can be spending my time and money with. Too bad too.. it looks like it can be fun, and I so want to enjoy it.
Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:55 pm

OuchMyBoobies Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm Posts: 992 Location: Eastern US	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. getting good, or even decent, at any fps shooter takes time. i remember back when i started playing quake 3, i was horrible! i would bounce between it and starcraft (which i was also horrible at). it probably took at lesat a year, if not more, before i was decently above average at quake 3 (i still suck at starcraft lol). it just takes time. you'll generally find similar situations to what you describe in any online fps game. if you can stick it out, you will get better. if the game just isn't enjoyable for you though, then perhaps you should move on to a genre that you do enjoy playing hours on end (even if you aren't the best at). such as rts (starcraft 2), or a mmorpg (diablo 3), etc.
Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:16 pm

blujay Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:58 am Posts: 136 Steam Gamer Name: nobody	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. Thanks for posting this. Everything you said is true. I remember when I hit level 6--there was suddenly a huge difference. It didn't take me long to adjust to the new environment and become moderately useful, but now I'm level 19 and I have the same feeling when I play on a server where each team has 4 golds and one pubstar capper running routes at 300 while everyone else plays TDM--it's pointless. I can't cap as fast as they can, and I can't chase cappers at that speed--and playing defense is pointless since there are 5-7 enemies swarming our flagstand--so there's nothing to do but duel in the midfield or practice flag routes on an empty stand. Might as well forget CTF. I had a lot of fun the first few weeks, but now it's just hard to find fun games. And I'm not playing it much. I've posted several times about a simple solution to team balancing (putting players on servers where the average player rank is close to their own), but what is really needed is for Hirez to take it seriously. Skins and guns make more money in the short-term, though...
Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:17 pm

AcidMantis Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:25 pm Posts: 179	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. Also, being that guy who sits in the midfield and spams mortars is just asking to get killed. You are nowhere near your support and are drawing the enemies to you, usually in multiples. Changing your technique and even your class is a good way to get over the various humps you encounter in this game.
Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:43 pm

Ixiterra Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:09 am Posts: 336	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. they really should segregate at least 1-10
Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:46 pm

Vormulac Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:25 pm Posts: 1724	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. People have been complaining about screen shake/cracking/distortion since before beta. I have to agree with you on that. _________________ HR! Y U NO LISTEN TO SIR NEWTON?! Classical mechanics: Simple, elegant, fun.
Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:48 pm

Styel Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:20 pm Posts: 627	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. This game is easy compared to 1 and 2. The lag problem is getting fixed, and the shaking will hopefully be changed. The more you play the more you become a bigger icon to the team _________________ Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? thesliver wrote: I say "Son, stop being so newb" Physics Poll
Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:07 pm

FluffDaSheep Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:08 am Posts: 473	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. Sprout, I don't know what to tell you... this game is not easy. It takes a long, long time to be able to contribute meaningfully. There is no short or easy route to owning faces in this game. Yes, teamstacking is a problem, and yes, a couple guys per team usually carry the match. I don't know how to fix that. I agree that there should be some kind of skill-based matchmaking. It would make the games more fun for all involved. All I can tell you is once you do manage to contribute, once you do manage to fight on the same level as these guys, no game feels more rewarding. If getting to that level feels too much like work, then yes, maybe this game is not for you. If I were you, I would consider it a challenge rather than work. I would also try playing some pathfinder, get a feel for the spinfusor, and for higher speeds. Focus on flag play, clear the enemy stand, defend your flag, chase down enemy cappers, escort friendly cappers. You don't even have to cap, just fighting around the flag is immensely useful, probably more useful than anything else you could be doing. EDIT: And TDMing in a CTF match isn't strictly useless. Defending your own base, especially your flagstand, EVEN IF IT IS EMPTY, is always useful. Doesn't matter if the enemies keep coming, just keep killing them.
Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:35 pm

clank1 Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:23 am Posts: 128	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. Sheep has the right idea. Competitive (and by competitive I mean player vs player, not organized competition) shooters are not for everyone. You're not going to come in and be on level with players who have been playing lots of it, and/or who have played a lot of shooters (I've definitely met a good number of bronzes with good aim and gamesense, even though so many seem to think level is the only thing that matters). Some people enjoy fighting an uphill battle, looking at how they can improve when they get destroyed, some don't. If you can't enjoy the game without needing to win/have a high KD/whatever you consider successful, you've got to "work" at it (get some people to help you) or just find another game. And don't take this personally either: too many people think that calling someone bad at a video game is a huge insult. That's actually an idea there, we could have some sort of mentoring system for new bronzes by people who know parts of the game, with small exp rewards. Implementation probably harder than it sounds, though. Definitely agree on at least options to remove screen shake and visor crack. And maybe not let anyone see the scoreboard before selecting their team. _________________
Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:41 pm

SoundGuy Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:55 am Posts: 1097	Re: Why I'm probably going to leave. Quote: 2. Visor crack, shake, and smoking is insane. As a new player, I'm already having enough trouble tracking where people are, and when I start to get injured you make it even harder? Incidentally, has anyone on the dev team heard of Q-sound or hell, even surround? Because if I could hear what direction shots were coming from, that might help. This sux. EVERYONE agrees but for some reason it stays. Can't fathom why Rest of your post is pretty good feedback. HiRez should listen.
Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:49 pm

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Why I'm probably going to leave.

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Sprout

Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2

Why I'm probably going to leave.

Hey there, folks.

I'm a noob. No doubt about it. This is my first experience with Tribes, just downloaded and started a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately, I expect I won't be a noob for long.. in fact, I simply won't be here. Here's why:

Up until level 5 or so, things were pretty cool. Yeah, I'm kinda a lousy shot, but I found with juggernaut I could position myself well and do a bit of damage to the enemy's base. Maybe sneak in and take out the generator, or occasionally defend one. It was actually enough fun I thought, sure, I'll try this VIP thing and maybe a new class or two.

Then I hit level 5 and it seemed things changed. Suddenly I became absolutely useless to the team. More than that, so did most of the team it seemed. Everything started to be done by maybe three or four guys on each team -- if we're lucky. If we're not lucky, the other team is all gold and my team is.. well..dead.

And you know, maybe it's just I need to work on getting better skilled, but I don't play to work. And I *especially* don't pay to work. And since being basically a mobile ammo drop isn't all that fun, I expect I won't be playing this game at all very soon.

Now to be a bit more constructive here's some of the specific problems I'm having:
1. Lag is hell. Dunno what to do about this.. I'm on a broadband connection, my computer, while not the latest and greatest, is no slouch. (Used to be it was cutting edge, but that's when you needed a separate PhysX card to get PhysX, which is what I have). Yet still the game feels like I'm missing more than half of what's going on around me. I'm playing on the default settings it established for my computer.. if that's a mistake then can someone tell me why they're the default?

2. Visor crack, shake, and smoking is insane. As a new player, I'm already having enough trouble tracking where people are, and when I start to get injured you make it even harder? Incidentally, has anyone on the dev team heard of Q-sound or hell, even surround? Because if I could hear what direction shots were coming from, that might help.

3. Team balance. As I pointed out briefly above, if the game had some sort of rudimentary balancing system rather than "Everybody pick the team they want" the steamrolls might not happen so often. And you know the sucky thing about steamrolls? Even if I happen to get onto the winning team, it's still no fun because I'm still basically worthless as assistance to my own team. Which leads me to:

4. Player skill balance. Don't shove the noobs in with guys who've been playing for however many months of beta (or even years if you count previous incarnations of the game in). The only way Free-to-Play games make money is if you have enough people at the low end who want to unlock higher level content. But by making me be essentially useless because I'm just so outclassed by the other folks on the team (and no disrespect intended.. I watch some of what you guys do and go "holy crap.. that's amazing") and making it impossible to really learn because by the time I start to realize what's happening I'm already back in the spawn queue just makes me go, "Jesus, what's the point?" Consider putting players in ranks. Ideally overlapping ranks so that there's a some sense of smooth transition. Because currently, the transition is "Here, have some smooth sailing on this little boat" to "Here, now go swimming in the atlantic with these anvils tied to your shoes." Consider ranks like 1-5, 1-10, 5-15, 10-20, 15-25, etc, so that at any point you can be playing with people who are lower or higher than you, but not so far away that you're just a mobile ammo drop.

For those of you in the community who get what I'm saying, something that you guys can do right now, when you see some poor schlep like me keep coming up on the wrong end of the killed listing, consider helping out -- or even just providing a word of encouragement. It could go a long way.

Also, here's some other things you might want to consider:
When I hit ESC, it should pop up a menu of some sort, instantly. I don't care if it's loading a game or connecting with the server. ESC should let me get out of whatever it's doing, even if it has to lose a possible connection doing it.

Team based games require some means of communication. No, stumbling around menus is not sufficient. If you're unable to properly do voice connection, I would first suggest you consider not implementing a team based game. Otherwise, the least you should do is provide some sort of links to make it easy to connect to where people are communicating.

Of course, maybe none of this matters, maybe I'm just the whiny noob who doesn't have the skill or the patience and masochism to suffer through until he gets it and you're not interested in having those kind of people. And if that's the case, that's all fine. But the one other thing you should remember is I'm also the kind of guy who's willing to shell out money if I'm enjoying myself -- and I'm not the only person like me out there, I'm just the one who's willing to be vocal about sucking and what it's like down here at the bottom.

Now, I'll probably stick it out for a little bit longer, but to be honest, my tolerance at feeling useless for my team is rapidly wearing out, and there's a lot of other games I can be spending my time and money with.

Too bad too.. it looks like it can be fun, and I *so* want to enjoy it.

Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:55 pm

OuchMyBoobies

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Eastern US

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

getting good, or even decent, at any fps shooter takes time. i remember back when i started playing quake 3, i was horrible! i would bounce between it and starcraft (which i was also horrible at). it probably took at lesat a year, if not more, before i was decently above average at quake 3 (i still suck at starcraft lol).

it just takes time. you'll generally find similar situations to what you describe in any online fps game. if you can stick it out, you will get better. if the game just isn't enjoyable for you though, then perhaps you should move on to a genre that you do enjoy playing hours on end (even if you aren't the best at). such as rts (starcraft 2), or a mmorpg (diablo 3), etc.

Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:16 pm

blujay

Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:58 am
Posts: 136
Steam Gamer Name: nobody

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

Thanks for posting this. Everything you said is true. I remember when I hit level 6--there was suddenly a huge difference. It didn't take me long to adjust to the new environment and become moderately useful, but now I'm level 19 and I have the same feeling when I play on a server where each team has 4 golds and one pubstar capper running routes at 300 while everyone else plays TDM--it's pointless. I can't cap as fast as they can, and I can't chase cappers at that speed--and playing defense is pointless since there are 5-7 enemies swarming our flagstand--so there's nothing to do but duel in the midfield or practice flag routes on an empty stand. Might as well forget CTF.

I had a lot of fun the first few weeks, but now it's just hard to find fun games. And I'm not playing it much.

I've posted several times about a simple solution to team balancing (putting players on servers where the average player rank is close to their own), but what is really needed is for Hirez to take it seriously. Skins and guns make more money in the short-term, though...

Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:17 pm

AcidMantis

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:25 pm
Posts: 179

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

Also, being that guy who sits in the midfield and spams mortars is just asking to get killed. You are nowhere near your support and are drawing the enemies to you, usually in multiples. Changing your technique and even your class is a good way to get over the various humps you encounter in this game.

Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:43 pm

Ixiterra

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:09 am
Posts: 336

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

they really should segregate at least 1-10

Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:46 pm

Vormulac

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:25 pm
Posts: 1724

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

People have been complaining about screen shake/cracking/distortion since before beta. I have to agree with you on that.

_________________
HR! Y U NO LISTEN TO SIR NEWTON?!
Classical mechanics: Simple, elegant, fun.

Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:48 pm

Styel

Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 627

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

This game is easy compared to 1 and 2. The lag problem is getting fixed, and the shaking will hopefully be changed. The more you play the more you become a bigger icon to the team

_________________
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

thesliver wrote:

I say "Son, stop being so newb"

Physics Poll

Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:07 pm

FluffDaSheep

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 473

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

Sprout, I don't know what to tell you... this game is not easy. It takes a long, long time to be able to contribute meaningfully. There is no short or easy route to owning faces in this game.

Yes, teamstacking is a problem, and yes, a couple guys per team usually carry the match. I don't know how to fix that. I agree that there should be some kind of skill-based matchmaking. It would make the games more fun for all involved.

All I can tell you is once you do manage to contribute, once you do manage to fight on the same level as these guys, no game feels more rewarding. If getting to that level feels too much like work, then yes, maybe this game is not for you.

If I were you, I would consider it a challenge rather than work. I would also try playing some pathfinder, get a feel for the spinfusor, and for higher speeds. Focus on flag play, clear the enemy stand, defend your flag, chase down enemy cappers, escort friendly cappers. You don't even have to cap, just fighting around the flag is immensely useful, probably more useful than anything else you could be doing.

EDIT: And TDMing in a CTF match isn't strictly useless. Defending your own base, especially your flagstand, EVEN IF IT IS EMPTY, is always useful. Doesn't matter if the enemies keep coming, just keep killing them.

Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:35 pm

clank1

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:23 am
Posts: 128

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

Sheep has the right idea.

Competitive (and by competitive I mean player vs player, not organized competition) shooters are not for everyone. You're not going to come in and be on level with players who have been playing lots of it, and/or who have played a lot of shooters (I've definitely met a good number of bronzes with good aim and gamesense, even though so many seem to think level is the only thing that matters).

Some people enjoy fighting an uphill battle, looking at how they can improve when they get destroyed, some don't. If you can't enjoy the game without needing to win/have a high KD/whatever you consider successful, you've got to "work" at it (get some people to help you) or just find another game. And don't take this personally either: too many people think that calling someone bad at a video game is a huge insult.

That's actually an idea there, we could have some sort of mentoring system for new bronzes by people who know parts of the game, with small exp rewards. Implementation probably harder than it sounds, though.

Definitely agree on at least options to remove screen shake and visor crack. And maybe not let anyone see the scoreboard before selecting their team.

_________________

Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:41 pm

SoundGuy

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:55 am
Posts: 1097

Re: Why I'm probably going to leave.

Quote:

2. Visor crack, shake, and smoking is insane. As a new player, I'm already having enough trouble tracking where people are, and when I start to get injured you make it even harder? Incidentally, has anyone on the dev team heard of Q-sound or hell, even surround? Because if I could hear what direction shots were coming from, that might help.

This sux. EVERYONE agrees but for some reason it stays. Can't fathom why :roll:

Rest of your post is pretty good feedback. HiRez should listen.

Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:49 pm

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Why I'm probably going to leave.