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What's the point of upgrades anyway?
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darkacacia Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:35 pm Posts: 60	What's the point of upgrades anyway? "Hey here's a neat weapon my [class] should have, let me blow a bunch of exp/gp to buy it and then disadvantage myself for the next 8-12 rounds until it matures." And if you're a Sentinel with a twitchy sniper hand (like me), forget about scoring too many points unless you only play when you can get the First Win of the Day accolade.
Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:01 pm

mrboneguy Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:05 pm Posts: 294	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? Balls are dogs apple three too! Sunday.
Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:09 pm

Salit Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am Posts: 78	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? Most weapons don't actually put you in a disadvantage (at least most (if not, all) primary/secondaries. Packs and Belts debatable), unless you count the low ammo and 20% less damage output on armor. The only primary weapon I know that may have an actual negative effect are the SENT snipers with that fall off upgrade. Though I don't play Sentinel very often, so I can't be sure. _________________ "Revenge is a plate best served blue."
Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Bored Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:14 am Posts: 325	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? As much as people complain about grinding, it get's them playing. The more you invest time into a game, the less likely you are to leave. Basically the point is to get player to invest more time and hopefully money into the game.
Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:27 pm

darkacacia Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:35 pm Posts: 60	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? Salit wrote: Most weapons don't actually put you in a disadvantage (at least most (if not, all) primary/secondaries. Packs and Belts debatable), unless you count the low ammo and 20% less damage output on armor.. You get any combination of less starting ammo, slower reloads, or less damage on certain targets with many of the weapons.
Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:35 pm

DurandalRAI Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:26 pm Posts: 32	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? darkacacia wrote: Salit wrote: Most weapons don't actually put you in a disadvantage (at least most (if not, all) primary/secondaries. Packs and Belts debatable), unless you count the low ammo and 20% less damage output on armor.. You get any combination of less starting ammo, slower reloads, or less damage on certain targets with many of the weapons. Honestly, I can't say I dislike that approach. For one, it gives you a reason to use the item (thus getting good with it), and rewards you for getting better over time. The SEN rifles are probably the toughest to upgrade, but they are also some of the toughest to get used to. That said, a lot of the other weapons aren't really comparably "bad" compared to their fully upgraded versions, and a skilled player can pretty easily tear someone up with any weapon that they're used to. To put it in perspective, compare the basic Spinfusor. The base version is still a powerful and versatile weapon (albeit one that needs some practice to master), and it is still capable of tearing apart any class when used right. The upgraded version, while it boasts some extra ammo and a bit of extra damage, is not so overwhelmingly powerful that it makes the base version useless, which is how it should be. You don't HAVE to spend the 15k exp to master it right away, but if you do so you just get a little more "oomph" instead of the Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode".
Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:41 pm

Salit Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am Posts: 78	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? DurandalRAI wrote: Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode". Megazord....It's Megazord. _________________ "Revenge is a plate best served blue."
Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:45 pm

DurandalRAI Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:26 pm Posts: 32	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? Salit wrote: DurandalRAI wrote: Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode". Megazord....It's Megazord. Only if you're the good guys. Otherwise you're just making your monster grow, which is either a descriptor of an event, or a creepy double entendre.
Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:02 pm

DemoEvolved Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:28 am Posts: 2032	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? I have been meaning to post about this. The design of the weapon upgrade system is flawed in a couple ways. 1. When you buy a full kit of items, it is usually Pack 1000, 5000, 14000 Grenade 1000, 5000, 14000 Weapon 1000, 5000, 34000 Something like that. For one, when you unlock 3 things after one game you lose that sense of progression of gradually unlocking stuff. So, better: Pack 1000, 5000, 11000 Grenade 3000, 8000, 14000 Weapon 2000, 7000, 34000 There is a better chance you will not unlock multiple things at once. But your total xp grind is not changed. For second, and this is more controversial, when you buy a weapon, the xp price to grind out the unlocks is usually about the SAME as the price to instantly unlock the weapon. However, we all know that BANKED xp is worth more than future XP, because if you spend banked XP you will not have it to unlock the next weapon. Whereas if you grind it out you will actually have MORE XP for the next weapon on top of your banked XP. This means there is less incentive to buy BOOST. SO, what it should be is: Pack - UNLOCK INSTANTLY: 14000 2000, 10000, 22000 Grenade - UNLOCK INSTANTLY: 14000 6000, 16000, 28000 Weapon - UNLOCK INSTANTLY: 34000 4000, 14000, 68000 Now, you are either strongly incentivized to spend banked XP, OR buy boost. Or grind it out. This would make more money for HiRez
Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:37 pm

Durzaka Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:42 pm Posts: 1276	Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway? Salit wrote: DurandalRAI wrote: Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode". Megazord....It's Megazord. Im glad im not the only one who twitched when they read that. Then i reread it and realized he meant the bad guys, and i guess that's the best way to describe it.
Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:17 pm

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What's the point of upgrades anyway?

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darkacacia

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:35 pm
Posts: 60

What's the point of upgrades anyway?

"Hey here's a neat weapon my [class] should have, let me blow a bunch of exp/gp to buy it and then disadvantage myself for the next 8-12 rounds until it matures."

And if you're a Sentinel with a twitchy sniper hand (like me), forget about scoring too many points unless you only play when you can get the First Win of the Day accolade.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:01 pm

mrboneguy

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:05 pm
Posts: 294

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

Balls are dogs apple three too! Sunday.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:09 pm

Salit

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am
Posts: 78

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

Most weapons don't actually put you in a disadvantage (at least most (if not, all) primary/secondaries. Packs and Belts debatable), unless you count the low ammo and 20% less damage output on armor.

The only primary weapon I know that may have an actual negative effect are the SENT snipers with that fall off upgrade.
Though I don't play Sentinel very often, so I can't be sure.

_________________
"Revenge is a plate best served blue."

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Bored

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:14 am
Posts: 325

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

As much as people complain about grinding, it get's them playing. The more you invest time into a game, the less likely you are to leave. Basically the point is to get player to invest more time and hopefully money into the game.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:27 pm

darkacacia

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:35 pm
Posts: 60

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

Salit wrote:

Most weapons don't actually put you in a disadvantage (at least most (if not, all) primary/secondaries. Packs and Belts debatable), unless you count the low ammo and 20% less damage output on armor..

You get any combination of less starting ammo, slower reloads, or less damage on certain targets with many of the weapons.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:35 pm

DurandalRAI

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:26 pm
Posts: 32

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

darkacacia wrote:

Salit wrote:

Most weapons don't actually put you in a disadvantage (at least most (if not, all) primary/secondaries. Packs and Belts debatable), unless you count the low ammo and 20% less damage output on armor..

You get any combination of less starting ammo, slower reloads, or less damage on certain targets with many of the weapons.

Honestly, I can't say I dislike that approach. For one, it gives you a reason to use the item (thus getting good with it), and rewards you for getting better over time. The SEN rifles are probably the toughest to upgrade, but they are also some of the toughest to get used to. That said, a lot of the other weapons aren't really comparably "bad" compared to their fully upgraded versions, and a skilled player can pretty easily tear someone up with any weapon that they're used to.

To put it in perspective, compare the basic Spinfusor. The base version is still a powerful and versatile weapon (albeit one that needs some practice to master), and it is still capable of tearing apart any class when used right. The upgraded version, while it boasts some extra ammo and a bit of extra damage, is not so overwhelmingly powerful that it makes the base version useless, which is how it should be. You don't HAVE to spend the 15k exp to master it right away, but if you do so you just get a little more "oomph" instead of the Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode".

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:41 pm

Salit

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am
Posts: 78

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

DurandalRAI wrote:

Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode".

Megazord....It's Megazord.

_________________
"Revenge is a plate best served blue."

Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:45 pm

DurandalRAI

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:26 pm
Posts: 32

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

Salit wrote:

DurandalRAI wrote:

Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode".

Megazord....It's Megazord.

Only if you're the good guys. Otherwise you're just making your monster grow, which is either a descriptor of an event, or a creepy double entendre.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:02 pm

DemoEvolved

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:28 am
Posts: 2032

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

I have been meaning to post about this.

The design of the weapon upgrade system is flawed in a couple ways.

1. When you buy a full kit of items, it is usually
Pack
1000, 5000, 14000
Grenade
1000, 5000, 14000
Weapon
1000, 5000, 34000

Something like that.
For one, when you unlock 3 things after one game you lose that sense of progression of gradually unlocking stuff. So, better:
Pack
1000, 5000, 11000
Grenade
3000, 8000, 14000
Weapon
2000, 7000, 34000

There is a better chance you will not unlock multiple things at once. But your total xp grind is not changed.

For second, and this is more controversial, when you buy a weapon, the xp price to grind out the unlocks is usually about the SAME as the price to instantly unlock the weapon. However, we all know that BANKED xp is worth more than future XP, because if you spend banked XP you will not have it to unlock the next weapon. Whereas if you grind it out you will actually have MORE XP for the next weapon on top of your banked XP. This means there is less incentive to buy BOOST.

SO, what it should be is:

Pack - UNLOCK INSTANTLY: 14000
2000, 10000, 22000
Grenade - UNLOCK INSTANTLY: 14000
6000, 16000, 28000
Weapon - UNLOCK INSTANTLY: 34000
4000, 14000, 68000

Now, you are either strongly incentivized to spend banked XP, OR buy boost. Or grind it out.

This would make more money for HiRez

Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:37 pm

Durzaka

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:42 pm
Posts: 1276

Re: What's the point of upgrades anyway?

Salit wrote:

DurandalRAI wrote:

Power Rangers transformation into "giant enemy mode".

Megazord....It's Megazord.

Im glad im not the only one who twitched when they read that.

Then i reread it and realized he meant the bad guys, and i guess that's the best way to describe it.

Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:17 pm

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What's the point of upgrades anyway?