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PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade
Author	Message
Tamburlaine Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am Posts: 1859	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade Gonna have to die to 'em a few times before I start saying this or that should change. _________________ oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer
Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:42 am

SFJake Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:11 pm Posts: 381	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade WitchDoctorVega wrote: SkepticTA wrote: The video is all footage of internal testers and staffers. And we all know how closely their testing resembles actual public play, right? RIGHT?! Give it a chance. I will, but look at the Jackal man. Looked OP from day 1, and as it stands i can still completely clean out and hold a gen room by myself using only the jackal and stickies. by appearances, this needs to be looked at. This is exactly why they shouldn't have gone full release yet. its not ready. Who are you playing against, seriously? No, you're not actually that strong against anyone that knows what they're doing. Of course still, the Jackal is OP, everybody knows it, the competition ban it. Yet its not fixed. And I don't even think the new weapons are going to be OP, if they are, its not as 'obvious' as the Jackal. And if the can't fix that one, what do you expect? My point? Pointless petition is pointless but don't let me stop you from trying. _________________ http://sfjake.zxq.net
Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:43 am

DuckBlitz Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 am Posts: 177	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade Even going purely on the preview, I think you're overrating the cluster gren. It looks like MIRV with the same central problem: two fuses allow foes more time to react and get out of harm's way. EMP gren's radius is already quite good indoors and I really don't see the cluster being the better choice in most situations. Also, when looking at the preview, don't confuse the plasma round damage figures with the cluster ones. Now as for plasma, it'll be good no doubt, an improvement outdoors for dogfighting but then again you already have NJ4 for that. Meanwhile ARX will probably still make for better base asset sniping, allow more burst indoors (esp surprise stickies w/ jammer pack) and gren launcher will make for better general indoors spamming and area denial. I find it likely that in a few weeks those who played raider regularly before this patch will mostly have gone back to the old weapons. Of course, we'll see more of "alternate soldiering" from people who hadn't realized raider already does pretty much everything a soldier does better. That's my pre-release speculation, anyway.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:02 am

Yutty Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:58 pm Posts: 563	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade ya i see myself most likely sticking to my grenade launcher & emp. I don't really need another bullet like weapon when i'm playing at 100 ping. _________________ Care to sponsor a gamer? https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=B98Q74J6ABRYL&lc=CA&item_name=Yutty%27s%20Dream%20Fund&item_number=sponsor&currency_code=USD&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF%3abtn_donateCC_LG%2egif%3aNonHosted
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:16 am

Beeman1991 Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:51 am Posts: 6298 Location: British Columbia Steam Gamer Name: beeman1991	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade Almost tempted to come back for the plasma alone regardless of the stats (could be UP for all I care as long as it gets balanced eventually) One thing that I'd like to see though is inheritance values being advertised (I can't see them doing it but even having it in the patch notes would be nice) Looks like 0% to me but it's also short range and most of the shots are taken standing still Also what's the knockback on that sucker? Cuz we've now got a fast-shootan minispinfusor+CG-equivalent combo... ...I get the feeling that we're going to see a lot of crying on the forums starting tomorrow, no matter what the numbers are _________________ HELP HIREZDUKE TAKE HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE AS SUPREME DICTATOR GA2
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:21 am

Dasein808 Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm Posts: 147	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade -Thea- wrote: Stupid thread is stupid. Try them first, then whine if need be. ^ I can't stand the kneejerk torch and pitchfork rabble. They give companies an incentive not to release patch notes early. I don't understand why some can't show a little bit of gratitude to them for offering the game for free and resurrecting an otherwise dead franchise. Why not wait and see and then b****?
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:25 am

Beeman1991 Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:51 am Posts: 6298 Location: British Columbia Steam Gamer Name: beeman1991	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade Dasein808 wrote: -Thea- wrote: Stupid thread is stupid. Try them first, then whine if need be. ^ I can't stand the kneejerk torch and pitchfork rabble. It gives companies an incentive not to release patch notes early. I don't understand why some can't show a little bit of gratitude to them for offering the game for free and resurrecting an otherwise dead franchise. Why not wait and see and then b**? It's only preparing us for the inevitable s* of people crying for nerfs (warranted or otherwise) I agree though, it is a bit early to see how it operates in an actual game (Read: at decent ranges) _________________ HELP HIREZDUKE TAKE HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE AS SUPREME DICTATOR GA2
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:38 am

scottjames7296 Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:39 pm Posts: 17	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade WitchDoctorVega wrote: Your video has done nothing but show us that these weapons are too strong compared to other weapons in the game. That new grenade, though cool, does WAY too much damage considering the area it coveres. That s* needs a nerf, pronto or people are probably gonna stop playing for a week or so until the noobs calm down. Plasma. I never thought I would see the day where having plasma was almost as bad as not having plasma. That weapon is supposed to be a secondary with like max 350 damage, not a primary dealing 500. What happened to its range? you saw a video showing off a weapon and he was getting kills, thats the point of a preview retard no one wants to see a preview missing and not getting any kills and dying ( guessing this is how most of ur matches go cuz ur a scrub ). youre stooping pretty low to try to petition something with no information on how it works in the game. youre a f* retard. by the way stop posting stupid topics for the love of god
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:39 am

starlinvf Beta Tester Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am Posts: 1478	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade Dasein808 wrote: I can't stand the kneejerk torch and pitchfork rabble. They give companies an incentive not to release patch notes early. I don't understand why some can't show a little bit of gratitude to them for offering the game for free and resurrecting an otherwise dead franchise. Why not wait and see and then b****? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franken_Fran Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankenstein If you didn't catch the drift on first link. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0370263/ - AvP http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120915/ - Starwars Ep1 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/ - Starwars Ep2 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121766/ - Starwars Ep3 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118583/ - Alien: Resurrection "There are fates worse then death" _________________ "Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:48 am

SkepticTA Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm Posts: 3062	Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade I noticed in the video that most of the damage being done to the gen was with the plasma rifle, and in both clips the gen was not upgraded at all, which is super easy to destroy. The cluster bomblets appear to do splash damage between 100-500, which makes me think they have a pretty steep falloff. With the way they scatter, I imagine these aren't as easy to massacre with as they look in the video. The clips from Arx and Crossfire gen rooms show the raider tossing ALL of his nades at a group of people standing around humping each other in a corner, and icing them with plasma on top of that. Also the plasma rifle does slightly less damage than an indirect light spinfusor hit, and has zero knockback. The trade-off is higher RoF and larger projectile. Seems fair to me. _________________ (AHK) T:A Physics Profiler
Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:49 am

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PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

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Tamburlaine

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am
Posts: 1859

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

Gonna have to die to 'em a few times before I start saying this or that should change.

_________________
oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer

Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:42 am

SFJake

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:11 pm
Posts: 381

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

WitchDoctorVega wrote:

SkepticTA wrote:

The video is all footage of internal testers and staffers. And we all know how closely their testing resembles actual public play, right? RIGHT?!

Give it a chance.

I will, but look at the Jackal man. Looked OP from day 1, and as it stands i can still completely clean out and hold a gen room by myself using only the jackal and stickies. by appearances, this needs to be looked at.

This is exactly why they shouldn't have gone full release yet. its not ready.

Who are you playing against, seriously? No, you're not actually that strong against anyone that knows what they're doing.

Of course still, the Jackal is OP, everybody knows it, the competition ban it. Yet its not fixed.

And I don't even think the new weapons are going to be OP, if they are, its not as 'obvious' as the Jackal. And if the can't fix that one, what do you expect?

My point? Pointless petition is pointless but don't let me stop you from trying.

_________________
http://sfjake.zxq.net

Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:43 am

DuckBlitz

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 am
Posts: 177

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

Even going purely on the preview, I think you're overrating the cluster gren. It looks like MIRV with the same central problem: two fuses allow foes more time to react and get out of harm's way. EMP gren's radius is already quite good indoors and I really don't see the cluster being the better choice in most situations. Also, when looking at the preview, don't confuse the plasma round damage figures with the cluster ones.

Now as for plasma, it'll be good no doubt, an improvement outdoors for dogfighting but then again you already have NJ4 for that. Meanwhile ARX will probably still make for better base asset sniping, allow more burst indoors (esp surprise stickies w/ jammer pack) and gren launcher will make for better general indoors spamming and area denial.

I find it likely that in a few weeks those who played raider regularly before this patch will mostly have gone back to the old weapons. Of course, we'll see more of "alternate soldiering" from people who hadn't realized raider already does pretty much everything a soldier does better.

That's my pre-release speculation, anyway.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:02 am

Yutty

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:58 pm
Posts: 563

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

ya i see myself most likely sticking to my grenade launcher & emp. I don't really need another bullet like weapon when i'm playing at 100 ping.

_________________
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:16 am

Beeman1991

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:51 am
Posts: 6298
Location: British Columbia
Steam Gamer Name: beeman1991

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

Almost tempted to come back for the plasma alone regardless of the stats (could be UP for all I care as long as it gets balanced eventually)

One thing that I'd like to see though is inheritance values being advertised (I can't see them doing it but even having it in the patch notes would be nice)
Looks like 0% to me but it's also short range and most of the shots are taken standing still

Also what's the knockback on that sucker? Cuz we've now got a fast-shootan minispinfusor+CG-equivalent combo...
...I get the feeling that we're going to see a lot of crying on the forums starting tomorrow, no matter what the numbers are

_________________
HELP HIREZDUKE TAKE HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE AS SUPREME DICTATOR GA2

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:21 am

Dasein808

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 147

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

-Thea- wrote:

Stupid thread is stupid. Try them first, then whine if need be.

^

I can't stand the kneejerk torch and pitchfork rabble. They give companies an incentive not to release patch notes early.

I don't understand why some can't show a little bit of gratitude to them for offering the game for free and resurrecting an otherwise dead franchise.

Why not wait and see and then b****?

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:25 am

Beeman1991

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:51 am
Posts: 6298
Location: British Columbia
Steam Gamer Name: beeman1991

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

Dasein808 wrote:

-Thea- wrote:

Stupid thread is stupid. Try them first, then whine if need be.

^

I can't stand the kneejerk torch and pitchfork rabble. It gives companies an incentive not to release patch notes early.

I don't understand why some can't show a little bit of gratitude to them for offering the game for free and resurrecting an otherwise dead franchise.

Why not wait and see and then b****?

It's only preparing us for the inevitable s*** of people crying for nerfs (warranted or otherwise)

I agree though, it is a bit early to see how it operates in an actual game (Read: at decent ranges)

_________________
HELP HIREZDUKE TAKE HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE AS SUPREME DICTATOR GA2

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:38 am

scottjames7296

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:39 pm
Posts: 17

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

WitchDoctorVega wrote:

Your video has done nothing but show us that these weapons are too strong compared to other weapons in the game.

That new grenade, though cool, does WAY too much damage considering the area it coveres. That s*** needs a nerf, pronto or people are probably gonna stop playing for a week or so until the noobs calm down.

Plasma.

I never thought I would see the day where having plasma was almost as bad as not having plasma. That weapon is supposed to be a secondary with like max 350 damage, not a primary dealing 500. What happened to its range?

you saw a video showing off a weapon and he was getting kills, thats the point of a preview retard no one wants to see a preview missing and not getting any kills and dying ( guessing this is how most of ur matches go cuz ur a scrub ). youre stooping pretty low to try to petition something with no information on how it works in the game. youre a f*** retard. by the way stop posting stupid topics for the love of god

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:39 am

starlinvf

Beta Tester

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:31 am
Posts: 1478

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

Dasein808 wrote:

I can't stand the kneejerk torch and pitchfork rabble. They give companies an incentive not to release patch notes early.

I don't understand why some can't show a little bit of gratitude to them for offering the game for free and resurrecting an otherwise dead franchise.

Why not wait and see and then b****?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franken_Fran

Or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankenstein If you didn't catch the drift on first link.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0370263/ - AvP
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120915/ - Starwars Ep1
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/ - Starwars Ep2
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121766/ - Starwars Ep3
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118583/ - Alien: Resurrection

"There are fates worse then death"

_________________
"Even if it is just a gimmick, you can bet it'll be a crowd pleaser to see a player's feet kick up in the air and initiate a top down attack."

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:48 am

SkepticTA

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 3062

Re: PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade

I noticed in the video that most of the damage being done to the gen was with the plasma rifle, and in both clips the gen was not upgraded at all, which is super easy to destroy. The cluster bomblets appear to do splash damage between 100-500, which makes me think they have a pretty steep falloff. With the way they scatter, I imagine these aren't as easy to massacre with as they look in the video. The clips from Arx and Crossfire gen rooms show the raider tossing ALL of his nades at a group of people standing around humping each other in a corner, and icing them with plasma on top of that.

Also the plasma rifle does slightly less damage than an indirect light spinfusor hit, and has zero knockback. The trade-off is higher RoF and larger projectile. Seems fair to me.

_________________

(AHK) T:A Physics Profiler

Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:49 am

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PRE-RELEASE NERF PETITION: Plasma / Cluster Grenade