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Automatic weapon balance?
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Icedaemon Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:30 am Posts: 221	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Yup. As the poster above stated, using automatics (other than the chaingun, because the DMB gets a free pass for auto use as it fits the class well enough) makes many people, even of a merely sort-of-half-decent skill level like myself feel a bit, well, bad. A kill where I take an enemy down solely with an automatic is not a kill I can take pride in. Getting, say, a medium or heavy with two stickies and finishing him with the automatic? Sure, no problem - that was a worthy kill. However, killing a Brute with nothing but automatic shots makes me feel empty inside.
Sun May 20, 2012 8:43 am

Gariff Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am Posts: 111 Location: Australia	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Ok i've changed my mind, after thinking about it i wouldn't mind auto's geting a large nerf 30-50% less damage, while i enjoy the auto's i also really enjoy the explosives weapons too and i think i'd probably use them more if it wasn't for the fact that they really can't compare to autos in a straight up duel. For the past few days i've been playing JuG with fusion mortar, X1 LMG and spin disks with Loot and potential energy, it's a really fun build because the combat is so fluid going from the LMG in the air to the spin disks when the target hits the ground. A nerf to auto's would probably be a good thing because it would punish tho that rely solely on them to kill while people that use a combination of all weapons wouldn't feel it so hard. Auto's could still be used to finish fleeing opponents, stop health regen or just as a back up weapon which i think is fine. _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 8:56 am

TheAlgerian Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:48 am Posts: 165	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Gariff wrote: Guilotine wrote: This game is supose to be about Spinfuser / thumpers as main weapon and not everyone spraying automatic weapons becouse they are so much better and they are so easy to hit mid air. How do you know what the game is meant to be like, are you a Hi-rez dev? miqueloz wrote: TheAlgerian wrote: Because it's... obvious? What a stupid thing to say. How is it obvious? The only 'obvious' thing would be in direct contradiction to what you claim: autos being the way it's supposed to be played. Seeing as that's how it is. I'm tired explaining simple things like I was talking to a 4 year old or a drunk guy. Hint: "Tribes" -> "Spinfusor" The very name "Tribes" says it's not supposed to be about spamming autos CoD style. Period. Also you just have to check a few posts above this one to see why it's not a good thing, some people like me can't get themselves to use them because it just feels cheap, which it is. _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 9:32 am

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: Automatic weapon balance? I really don't think a nerf of 30-50% is necessary... it's a bit extreme for "balancing". Nerfs of 10-20% is all that would really be needed to make autos balanced without invalidating them as a weapon choice. Going over the top in nerfs is just as bad for the game as leaving them as is. _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Sun May 20, 2012 9:33 am

TheAlgerian Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:48 am Posts: 165	Re: Automatic weapon balance? DibbzTheLoner wrote: I really don't think a nerf of 30-50% is necessary... it's a bit extreme for "balancing". Nerfs of 10-20% is all that would really be needed to make autos balanced without invalidating them as a weapon choice. Going over the top in nerfs is just as bad for the game as leaving them as is. The good side is, a big nerf would turn them more into a finish off weapon. Which they should be IMO. _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 9:40 am

Gariff Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am Posts: 111 Location: Australia	Re: Automatic weapon balance? DibbzTheLoner wrote: I really don't think a nerf of 30-50% is necessary... it's a bit extreme for "balancing". Nerfs of 10-20% is all that would really be needed to make autos balanced without invalidating them as a weapon choice. Going over the top in nerfs is just as bad for the game as leaving them as is. The reason a 30-50% nerf is needed dribbz is because the people that want auto's nerfed don't want balance, they want spinfusors ---> auto's. They don't want autos to be able to compete with spinfusors, they want everyone to use spinfusors and have autos as finisher weapons if the enemy jets up with just 100hp and it's better to auto them then go for a mid-air. This might seem stupid to make auto's really bad where you wouldn't want to use them as a main weapon but i think it might be good for the game as a whole, 10-20% probably isn't a enough of a nerf to make people stop using them as there main weapon cough smg raiders cough. Honestly i don't think Hi-rez would ever nerf them by 30-50% however, it doesn't seem to be there vision that auto's are for finishing off people at distance or in the air. _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 10:05 am

resignator Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:55 am Posts: 7	Re: Automatic weapon balance? An overwhelming 87% think automatics are OP in their current state. 13% cant be asked to give up their autohotkey script that spams single clicks (effectively making the SMG a 5000 round per minute weapon). Least, that's the way I read this poll
Sun May 20, 2012 10:52 am

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Gariff wrote: dribbz ಠ_ಠ _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Sun May 20, 2012 12:14 pm

SenorRaoul Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:56 pm Posts: 304	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Lamikaze wrote: SenorRaoul wrote: change suggestions: reduce damage from all automatics except CG, rhino and tcg smg to 50%. reduce CG, rhino and tcg smg damage to 80%. unrelated: reduce projectile size of the plasma to that of a disk also reduce damage to 400 (direct). reduce damage of a jackal "round" to 400 (direct). You can't be serious. I am, the values for the dmg of automatics are exaggerated though, 75% and 90% would be more realistic.
Sun May 20, 2012 12:17 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4879 Location: NA East	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Gariff wrote: The reason a 30-50% nerf is needed dribbz is because the people that want auto's nerfed don't want balance, they want spinfusors ---> auto's. That's just blatantly incorrect. Like a ridiculous generalization, probably fueled by your previous stance. I would nerf no single auto more than 10%. Most less than 5%, and the AR and CG not at all. The largest "nerf" I would do is armor specific, and give medium and heavy armor some form of bullet resistance. I'll admit I prefer rocket play, but I'm fine with a skilled auto user being able to best me outside. That's where they should accel. I melt people all day with auto's inside, and that's just wrong. The SMGs are far and away the best weapons in the game. Between the preconceived notions about the title, and the steeper low end skill curve on them, statistically it won't show. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Sun May 20, 2012 12:49 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?

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Icedaemon

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 221

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Yup. As the poster above stated, using automatics (other than the chaingun, because the DMB gets a free pass for auto use as it fits the class well enough) makes many people, even of a merely sort-of-half-decent skill level like myself feel a bit, well, bad. A kill where I take an enemy down solely with an automatic is not a kill I can take pride in. Getting, say, a medium or heavy with two stickies and finishing him with the automatic? Sure, no problem - that was a worthy kill. However, killing a Brute with nothing but automatic shots makes me feel empty inside.

Sun May 20, 2012 8:43 am

Gariff

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am
Posts: 111
Location: Australia

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Ok i've changed my mind, after thinking about it i wouldn't mind auto's geting a large nerf 30-50% less damage, while i enjoy the auto's i also really enjoy the explosives weapons too and i think i'd probably use them more if it wasn't for the fact that they really can't compare to autos in a straight up duel.

For the past few days i've been playing JuG with fusion mortar, X1 LMG and spin disks with Loot and potential energy, it's a really fun build because the combat is so fluid going from the LMG in the air to the spin disks when the target hits the ground. A nerf to auto's would probably be a good thing because it would punish tho that rely solely on them to kill while people that use a combination of all weapons wouldn't feel it so hard. Auto's could still be used to finish fleeing opponents, stop health regen or just as a back up weapon which i think is fine.

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 8:56 am

TheAlgerian

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:48 am
Posts: 165

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Gariff wrote:

Guilotine wrote:

This game is supose to be about Spinfuser / thumpers as main weapon and not everyone spraying automatic weapons becouse they are so much better and they are so easy to hit mid air.

How do you know what the game is meant to be like, are you a Hi-rez dev?

miqueloz wrote:

TheAlgerian wrote:

Because it's... obvious?

What a stupid thing to say. How is it obvious? The only 'obvious' thing would be in direct contradiction to what you claim: autos being the way it's supposed to be played. Seeing as that's how it is.

I'm tired explaining simple things like I was talking to a 4 year old or a drunk guy.

Hint: "Tribes" -> "Spinfusor"
The very name "Tribes" says it's not supposed to be about spamming autos CoD style. Period.

Also you just have to check a few posts above this one to see why it's not a good thing, some people like me can't get themselves to use them because it just feels cheap, which it is.

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 9:32 am

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

I really don't think a nerf of 30-50% is necessary... it's a bit extreme for "balancing".

Nerfs of 10-20% is all that would really be needed to make autos balanced without invalidating them as a weapon choice.
Going over the top in nerfs is just as bad for the game as leaving them as is.

_________________
This signature is green. I like the colour green.
Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green.
Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!

Sun May 20, 2012 9:33 am

TheAlgerian

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:48 am
Posts: 165

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

DibbzTheLoner wrote:

The good side is, a big nerf would turn them more into a finish off weapon.
Which they should be IMO.

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 9:40 am

Gariff

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am
Posts: 111
Location: Australia

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

DibbzTheLoner wrote:

The reason a 30-50% nerf is needed dribbz is because the people that want auto's nerfed don't want balance, they want spinfusors ---> auto's. They don't want autos to be able to compete with spinfusors, they want everyone to use spinfusors and have autos as finisher weapons if the enemy jets up with just 100hp and it's better to auto them then go for a mid-air.

This might seem stupid to make auto's really bad where you wouldn't want to use them as a main weapon but i think it might be good for the game as a whole, 10-20% probably isn't a enough of a nerf to make people stop using them as there main weapon *cough* smg raiders *cough*.

Honestly i don't think Hi-rez would ever nerf them by 30-50% however, it doesn't seem to be there vision that auto's are for finishing off people at distance or in the air.

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 10:05 am

resignator

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:55 am
Posts: 7

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

An overwhelming 87% think automatics are OP in their current state.

13% cant be asked to give up their autohotkey script that spams single clicks (effectively making the SMG a 5000 round per minute weapon).

Least, that's the way I read this poll :evil:

Sun May 20, 2012 10:52 am

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Gariff wrote:

dribbz

ಠ_ಠ

Sun May 20, 2012 12:14 pm

SenorRaoul

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 304

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Lamikaze wrote:

SenorRaoul wrote:

change suggestions:
reduce damage from all automatics except CG, rhino and tcg smg to 50%.
reduce CG, rhino and tcg smg damage to 80%.

unrelated:
reduce projectile size of the plasma to that of a disk also reduce damage to 400 (direct).
reduce damage of a jackal "round" to 400 (direct).

You can't be serious.

I am, the values for the dmg of automatics are exaggerated though, 75% and 90% would be more realistic.

Sun May 20, 2012 12:17 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4879
Location: NA East

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Gariff wrote:

The reason a 30-50% nerf is needed dribbz is because the people that want auto's nerfed don't want balance, they want spinfusors ---> auto's.

That's just blatantly incorrect. Like a ridiculous generalization, probably fueled by your previous stance.

I would nerf no single auto more than 10%. Most less than 5%, and the AR and CG not at all.

The largest "nerf" I would do is armor specific, and give medium and heavy armor some form of bullet resistance.

I'll admit I prefer rocket play, but I'm fine with a skilled auto user being able to best me outside. That's where they should accel. I melt people all day with auto's inside, and that's just wrong.

The SMGs are far and away the best weapons in the game. Between the preconceived notions about the title, and the steeper low end skill curve on them, statistically it won't show.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Sun May 20, 2012 12:49 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?