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Automatic weapon balance?
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HiRezTodd Hi-Rez Team Member Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:20 pm Posts: 268	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Disclaimer: There are many different stats that we monitor for balance. The stats below are not inclusive of all we look at, nor should they be seen as a final point on any decision/discussion. However, we are providing these stats to help with some perceptions around Automatic Weapons relative to Explosive weapons. The perceptions seem to be: automatics are used much more frequently and/or automatics are much more powerful. The following samples are all limited to players over rank 10, so no newb players, but a good grouping of averaged skilled players. Here is a sample of the Soldier's Primary stats from YESTERDAY: (WEAPON)________________ (TIME EQUIPPED)____________(KILLS PER MIN)____(TOTAL KILLS) Soldier_Primary_AssaultRifle____113,281.58__________________.24_____________ 26,901 Soldier_Primary_Spinfusor______201,920.25__________________.61_____________123,604 Generally speaking, not only do players use the Spinfusor more (even as an unlock), but they average a lot more kills per min with the Spinfusor equipped. Here is a sample of the Raider from YESTERDAY, comparing his free primary and secondary weapons: (WEAPON)________________ (TIME EQUIPPED)____________(KILLS PER MIN)____(TOTAL KILLS) Raider_Primary_ArxBuster_____152,308.57___________________.28_____________ 42,695 Raider_Secondary_NJ4SMG____210,055.42___________________.19______________40,619 Here is the Technician. Note that in this case, as the Thumper is a much longer unlock, it's used significantly less than say the Soldier's Spinfusor. (WEAPON)_________________ (TIME EQUIPPED)___________(KILLS PER MIN)___(TOTAL KILLS) Technician_Primary_TCN_______229,870.77_________________.21______________49,009 Technician_Primary_Thumper___135,413.78_________________.43______________57,828 Obviously there are different use-cases on these weapons. We're not always balancing how much something kills, but also how well it helps out a certain role or situation. That said, it is simply not the case that we see automatics generally dominating over explosives. Also, when calculating damage from automatics compared with explosives: - take into account damage fall-off on the Automatics. If DPS changes the further away the target is, that matters. - take into account AOE weapons dealing... well... AOE. Looking at only the direct hit number is not enough. Direct hits are very rare. - keep in mind that doing 100 damage every tenth of a second is not the same as bursting 1000 damage with a 1s reload. The Bolt Launcher over infinite time may do "332 dps", but it can do 1300 in the first 2s. - Average player accuracy with Automatics is not 50%. It's actually between 12%-18% depending on the weapon (currently). The very skilled players do have significantly better stats regardless of weapon choice. The best players can take you out regardless of weapon However with the exception of the Sniper Rifle and Phase Rifle, we see the stats growing fairly equally between automatics and explosive weapons. The sniper rifles DO stand out as having the most change based on player skill. <locking thread just so the stats remain visible to the discussion; which will no doubt be continued in another thread>
Tue May 29, 2012 10:16 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?

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HiRezTodd

Hi-Rez Team Member

Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:20 pm
Posts: 268

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Disclaimer: There are many different stats that we monitor for balance. The stats below are not inclusive of all we look at, nor should they be seen as a final point on any decision/discussion.

However, we are providing these stats to help with some perceptions around Automatic Weapons relative to Explosive weapons. The perceptions seem to be: automatics are used much more frequently and/or automatics are much more powerful.

The following samples are all limited to players over rank 10, so no newb players, but a good grouping of averaged skilled players.

Here is a sample of the Soldier's Primary stats from YESTERDAY:

(WEAPON)________________ (TIME EQUIPPED)____________(KILLS PER MIN)____(TOTAL KILLS)
Soldier_Primary_AssaultRifle____113,281.58__________________.24_____________ 26,901
Soldier_Primary_Spinfusor______201,920.25__________________.61_____________123,604

Generally speaking, not only do players use the Spinfusor more (even as an unlock), but they average a lot more kills per min with the Spinfusor equipped.

Here is a sample of the Raider from YESTERDAY, comparing his free primary and secondary weapons:

(WEAPON)________________ (TIME EQUIPPED)____________(KILLS PER MIN)____(TOTAL KILLS)
Raider_Primary_ArxBuster_____152,308.57___________________.28_____________ 42,695
Raider_Secondary_NJ4SMG____210,055.42___________________.19______________40,619

Here is the Technician.
Note that in this case, as the Thumper is a much longer unlock, it's used significantly less than say the Soldier's Spinfusor.

(WEAPON)_________________ (TIME EQUIPPED)___________(KILLS PER MIN)___(TOTAL KILLS)
Technician_Primary_TCN_______229,870.77_________________.21______________49,009
Technician_Primary_Thumper___135,413.78_________________.43______________57,828

Obviously there are different use-cases on these weapons.
We're not always balancing how much something kills, but also how well it helps out a certain role or situation. That said, it is simply not the case that we see automatics generally dominating over explosives.

Also, when calculating damage from automatics compared with explosives:
- take into account damage fall-off on the Automatics. If DPS changes the further away the target is, that matters.
- take into account AOE weapons dealing... well... AOE. Looking at only the direct hit number is not enough. Direct hits are very rare.
- keep in mind that doing 100 damage every tenth of a second is not the same as bursting 1000 damage with a 1s reload. The Bolt Launcher over infinite time may do "332 dps", but it can do 1300 in the first 2s.
- Average player accuracy with Automatics is not 50%. It's actually between 12%-18% depending on the weapon (currently).

The very skilled players do have significantly better stats regardless of weapon choice. The best players can take you out regardless of weapon
However with the exception of the Sniper Rifle and Phase Rifle, we see the stats growing fairly equally between automatics and explosive weapons. The sniper rifles DO stand out as having the most change based on player skill.

<locking thread just so the stats remain visible to the discussion; which will no doubt be continued in another thread>

Tue May 29, 2012 10:16 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?