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Automatic weapon balance?
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Melanious Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm Posts: 2105 Location: NA West	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Quote: It's easier making money with brainless stuff. You mean like plasma gun's MAs and hit box (especially when it came out), Falcon.. LMG and LAR? How about PTH blowing by at 230+ without anyone but a sniper or shrike really able to touch them till they get to their base? Look I'm not here defending CoD.. I really don't give a rats about it.. I've had MW3 since it came out and I'm not even half way to my first prestige.. (played mw2 a lot more before). Like I said I enjoy the game for what it is occasionally.. but this is the important part.. I do not want tribes to become what CoD is. With autos the way they are that is the road its already half way down. I've sat in enemy bases for a FULL game keeping their gen down and been rewarded with a LOSS 5-0, 5-1 & 5-2 all the time. That kind of gameplay shouldn't be rewarded.. remember when you used to spawn in light with no pack and weapons you probably didn't use until you used inventory?? Makes gens, and stuff like teamwork a little more important. T1 and T2 took teamwork and skill, Ascend takes a lone PTH going light speed while everyone else frolicks around trying to be useful or top scoreboard with auto kills. _________________
Wed May 23, 2012 2:17 pm

Immie Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:10 pm Posts: 1310	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Tribes is nothing like cod and never will be. They could remove all the spinfusors and explosive weapons from the game completely, so only autos were used, and the game would still be nothing like cod. Jetpacks + skiing Slow projectile bullets that require leading Large health pools with long times-to-kill All of these things completely change how automatic weapons function in the game. As much as some people will explode to deny it, it makes these weapons require a vast deal of skill; a lot more than it takes to put splash damage on the ground every time an enemy lands. Not to take away from spinfusors or anything; there is plenty of skill involved in medium-long range/mid air shots... but the truth of the matter is that skill exists in them both, and they both have a place in the game. You might have better luck if you went with halo, since it has at least one of these things in common with tribes... _________________ Sorry but you cannot use search at this time. Please try again in a few minutes.
Wed May 23, 2012 2:30 pm

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Arrob wrote: FreaK367 wrote: Even when I go on one of my epic never dying sprees showcasing explosives, then trying to get people interested in learning to use explosives, nobody listens Didn't stop every one of them trying to duel and gang up on me, I felt like a teacher by the end. Everyone should master explosives, for the greater good. The game is full of noobs, we realize this in everyone who plays or defend autos. I just hope your spree wasnt while playing DMB and i hope too you dont mean Mines with Explosives... If not, its good . But It also seemed you didnt met someone with good aim and autos. Because in this cause, you wouldnt stay a chance. You can see at the bottom of the screenshot my class was Juggernaut That was MIRV + Spinfusor MKD + Throwing Disks. I got The Slayer before spending any credits since I prefer not to include strikes in the building of The Slayer. It isn't an honest way to do it , I went mad afterwards though. Sometimes if I need a quick boost of kills to reach Slayer though if time is running out, I give in. Throwing Disks probably resulted in the most kills, then MIRV. There was quite a few auto users which really slashed my health down before I could even get my first shot off, but you just need to play tactical. My go to attack is Spinfusor MKD then Throwing Disk, which can be used together very fast, if you pretend you're running and lure them down a hill or around a corner, or just make them come to you, you can stop and turn the tables. People have the mindset that when an enemy is on low health and/or fleeing, they MUST chase them, so I use that to my advantage. Personally if I make someone flee, I won't spend more than an extra 5 seconds trying to kill them before declaring it mission accomplished since I defended a Control Point. Others though, will drop all tactical play and storm after you, which sets them up for a surprise when I stop, turn around and teach them a lesson. I like to think I'm a pain in the ass to duel. And i often go for mid airs, the more you go for, the more you land, and the more they can win you duels. Even if they are unreliable, they have saved me many a time when I have had below even 100 health. I do it quite often, not always resulting in The Slayer, I can die if someone is good at autospam and I miss one of my shots. And sometimes a lucky strike that I haven't seen can catch me. I work hard not to die though, which others don't. http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2681/tribesascend20120514023.jpg http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/949/tribesascend20120520021.jpg http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7271/tribesascend20120508004.jpg http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6993/tribesascend20120513170.jpg http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4339/tribesascend20120513030.jpg Bigging it up for explosives. You don't need to turn to autospam or hitscan, FIGHT THE SYSTEM. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Wed May 23, 2012 2:38 pm

Melanious Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm Posts: 2105 Location: NA West	Re: Automatic weapon balance? I guess where we are getting caught up in wording a bit. You are right about skiing and jetting being vastly different then CoD. There is also the Ascends large open maps, interactive bases etc. yes yes I do agree. I would also agree with the implied sentiment that Ascend has a lot going for it. I would argue autos take little to no skill though. I have them.. first time I even used Raider/nj4 only I got same amount of kills I was getting going with spinfuser. Yes you lead a little but anyone playing the game more then a day can find the approximate lead of someone and hold the trigger there while dialing the spam of the.. not CoD instant (except snipes and soldier pistol) but for anyone going 150 or less.. let's be honest its practically instant. Let's not forget no recoil like CoD and if you are trying to be useful (HoF especially) lobbing mortars for breaking defense you can get mowed down by a skilled auto user as fast as a CoD fire fight. The difference is that HoF had to disc jump a few times and fly all the way to an enemy base and try to lob mortars with a screen shake and crack to make a 20 second opening for their team. In a perfect world.. especially those arena games with disc only fun duels Ascend does well for itself. Unfortunately it only takes 1-2 auto spammers to ruin it for the rest of the group. _________________
Wed May 23, 2012 2:59 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 5047 Location: NA East	Re: Automatic weapon balance? It's not about how actually mechanically similar to CoD that Ascend is, it's about how relatively similar transitioned the game play is from classic tribes to the modern "no attention span" shooter market. CoD just happens to be the best [sic] example of said market. The market appeals to a TV raised generation with no attention span, and (as a result) no desire for learning curves. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Wed May 23, 2012 4:49 pm

Xaraxitor Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:25 pm Posts: 376 Location: Sitting at computer.	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Last night I was playing in a server and was trying to cap the flag, the problem is the chasers are using machine guns that are super accurate. To think in real life machine guns have spread due to the fact part of their explosion has to be dedicated to ejecting the casing yet these guns are but fast firing sniper rifles! Duelling is also difficult, not only do they get multiple hits on you but you end up getting blinded by the screen cracking. I might be a traditionalist and rely too heavily on the spinfusor but to me this weapon requires more skill to hit so feel more satisfaction when I kill someone. I refer to machine gun kills as 'spray and pray', just aim in the general direction until you start scoring hits, given the HUGE amount of bullets these things have all you need to do for your 'skill' is hold down fire. I have played the whole series of Tribes and in the previous ones lost a couple of girlfriends to it (game was more interesting anyway) but this version is like weaning me off my addiction for the game entirely. I was so frustrated at the pin point accuracy of machine gunners last night I ended up closing T:A down and started playing something else.
Wed May 23, 2012 5:07 pm

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 5047 Location: NA East	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Screen cracking should only happen with headshots, or single damages beyond a certain percentage of total health. Accuracy is kind of the point, because the purpose of fast projectiles is range. An overall damage decrease will do the same thing at range, it just won't leave them 4x as effective in CQ, which I'd prefer anyways. It, however, worked fine before, so I'm starting to think maybe it'd be okay. I'd prefer just adjusting damages and RoF's though. I like knowing my shots go where I place them. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Wed May 23, 2012 5:13 pm

Arrob Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:09 am Posts: 128	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Seems HiRez isnt interested in doing anything, they never even posted one comment on 500 forumsites about this. Unfortunately the best thing we can do is not to support this game anymore. Its sad because i like HiRez for digging out this awesome franchise, but they simply cant handle its awesomeness.
Wed May 23, 2012 5:27 pm

hvcterr Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am Posts: 1567	Re: Automatic weapon balance? lHEXENl wrote: Comparing this game to such trash as CoD isn't fair nor reasonable in any way, shape or form. It's a knee jerk reaction to describe a gaming element that a particular player doesn't like. To be completely honest, anyone who claims this game is in any way similar to CoD is smoking the hyperbole. see what I did there? Pretty much. I think we might be getting to the point where people complaining about Call of Duty are almost self-parody. Just read everything they say in the voice of the Simpsons comic-book guy. _________________ Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.
Wed May 23, 2012 5:33 pm

Cyanistic Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm Posts: 3783 Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic	Re: Automatic weapon balance? -AEnubis- wrote: Screen cracking should only happen with headshots, or single damages beyond a certain percentage of total health. 100% okay with this.
Wed May 23, 2012 5:50 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?

Author

Message

Melanious

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm
Posts: 2105
Location: NA West

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Quote:

It's easier making money with brainless stuff.

You mean like plasma gun's MAs and hit box (especially when it came out), Falcon.. LMG and LAR? How about PTH blowing by at 230+ without anyone but a sniper or shrike really able to touch them till they get to their base?

Look I'm not here defending CoD.. I really don't give a rats about it.. I've had MW3 since it came out and I'm not even half way to my first prestige.. (played mw2 a lot more before). Like I said I enjoy the game for what it is occasionally.. but this is the important part.. I *do not* want tribes to become what CoD is. With autos the way they are that is the road its already half way down.

I've sat in enemy bases for a FULL game keeping their gen down and been rewarded with a LOSS 5-0, 5-1 & 5-2 all the time. That kind of gameplay shouldn't be rewarded.. remember when you used to spawn in light with no pack and weapons you probably didn't use until you used inventory?? Makes gens, and stuff like teamwork a little more important.

T1 and T2 took teamwork and skill, Ascend takes a lone PTH going light speed while everyone else frolicks around trying to be useful or top scoreboard with auto kills.

_________________

Wed May 23, 2012 2:17 pm

Immie

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:10 pm
Posts: 1310

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Tribes is nothing like cod and never will be. They could remove all the spinfusors and explosive weapons from the game completely, so only autos were used, and the game would still be nothing like cod.

Jetpacks + skiing
Slow projectile bullets that require leading
Large health pools with long times-to-kill

All of these things completely change how automatic weapons function in the game. As much as some people will explode to deny it, it makes these weapons require a vast deal of skill; a lot more than it takes to put splash damage on the ground every time an enemy lands. Not to take away from spinfusors or anything; there is plenty of skill involved in medium-long range/mid air shots... but the truth of the matter is that skill exists in them both, and they both have a place in the game.

You might have better luck if you went with halo, since it has at least one of these things in common with tribes...

_________________
Sorry but you cannot use search at this time. Please try again in a few minutes.

Wed May 23, 2012 2:30 pm

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Arrob wrote:

FreaK367 wrote:

Even when I go on one of my epic never dying sprees showcasing explosives, then trying to get people interested in learning to use explosives, nobody listens

Didn't stop every one of them trying to duel and gang up on me, I felt like a teacher by the end.

Everyone should master explosives, for the greater good.

The game is full of noobs, we realize this in everyone who plays or defend autos. I just hope your spree wasnt while playing DMB and i hope too you dont mean Mines with Explosives... If not, its good

. But It also seemed you didnt met someone with good aim and autos. Because in this cause, you wouldnt stay a chance.

You can see at the bottom of the screenshot my class was Juggernaut

That was MIRV + Spinfusor MKD + Throwing Disks. I got The Slayer before spending any credits since I prefer not to include strikes in the building of The Slayer. It isn't an honest way to do it

, I went mad afterwards though. Sometimes if I need a quick boost of kills to reach Slayer though if time is running out, I give in.

Throwing Disks probably resulted in the most kills, then MIRV.

There was quite a few auto users which really slashed my health down before I could even get my first shot off, but you just need to play tactical. My go to attack is Spinfusor MKD then Throwing Disk, which can be used together very fast, if you pretend you're running and lure them down a hill or around a corner, or just make them come to you, you can stop and turn the tables. People have the mindset that when an enemy is on low health and/or fleeing, they MUST chase them, so I use that to my advantage. Personally if I make someone flee, I won't spend more than an extra 5 seconds trying to kill them before declaring it mission accomplished since I defended a Control Point.

Others though, will drop all tactical play and storm after you, which sets them up for a surprise when I stop, turn around and teach them a lesson. I like to think I'm a pain in the ass to duel. And i often go for mid airs, the more you go for, the more you land, and the more they can win you duels. Even if they are unreliable, they have saved me many a time when I have had below even 100 health.

I do it quite often, not always resulting in The Slayer, I can die if someone is good at autospam and I miss one of my shots. And sometimes a lucky strike that I haven't seen can catch me. I work hard not to die though, which others don't.
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2681/tribesascend20120514023.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/949/tribesascend20120520021.jpg
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7271/tribesascend20120508004.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6993/tribesascend20120513170.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4339/tribesascend20120513030.jpg

Bigging it up for explosives. You don't need to turn to autospam or hitscan, FIGHT THE SYSTEM.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
Large Jackal Nerf

Wed May 23, 2012 2:38 pm

Melanious

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm
Posts: 2105
Location: NA West

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

I guess where we are getting caught up in wording a bit. You are right about skiing and jetting being vastly different then CoD. There is also the Ascends large open maps, interactive bases etc. yes yes I do agree. I would also agree with the implied sentiment that Ascend has a lot going for it.

I would argue autos take little to no skill though. I have them.. first time I even used Raider/nj4 only I got same amount of kills I was getting going with spinfuser. Yes you lead a little but anyone playing the game more then a day can find the approximate lead of someone and hold the trigger there while dialing the spam of the.. not CoD instant (except snipes and soldier pistol) but for anyone going 150 or less.. let's be honest its practically instant.

Let's not forget no recoil like CoD and if you are trying to be useful (HoF especially) lobbing mortars for breaking defense you can get mowed down by a skilled auto user as fast as a CoD fire fight. The difference is that HoF had to disc jump a few times and fly all the way to an enemy base and try to lob mortars with a screen shake and crack to make a 20 second opening for their team.

In a perfect world.. especially those arena games with disc only fun duels Ascend does well for itself. Unfortunately it only takes 1-2 auto spammers to ruin it for the rest of the group.

_________________

Wed May 23, 2012 2:59 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 5047
Location: NA East

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

It's not about how actually mechanically similar to CoD that Ascend is, it's about how relatively similar transitioned the game play is from classic tribes to the modern "no attention span" shooter market. CoD just happens to be the best [sic] example of said market.

The market appeals to a TV raised generation with no attention span, and (as a result) no desire for learning curves.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Wed May 23, 2012 4:49 pm

Xaraxitor

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:25 pm
Posts: 376
Location: Sitting at computer.

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Last night I was playing in a server and was trying to cap the flag, the problem is the chasers are using machine guns that are super accurate.

To think in real life machine guns have spread due to the fact part of their explosion has to be dedicated to ejecting the casing yet these guns are but fast firing sniper rifles!

Duelling is also difficult, not only do they get multiple hits on you but you end up getting blinded by the screen cracking.

I might be a traditionalist and rely too heavily on the spinfusor but to me this weapon requires more skill to hit so feel more satisfaction when I kill someone.

I refer to machine gun kills as 'spray and pray', just aim in the general direction until you start scoring hits, given the HUGE amount of bullets these things have all you need to do for your 'skill' is hold down fire.

I have played the whole series of Tribes and in the previous ones lost a couple of girlfriends to it (game was more interesting anyway) but this version is like weaning me off my addiction for the game entirely.

I was so frustrated at the pin point accuracy of machine gunners last night I ended up closing T:A down and started playing something else.

Wed May 23, 2012 5:07 pm

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 5047
Location: NA East

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Screen cracking should only happen with headshots, or single damages beyond a certain percentage of total health.

Accuracy is kind of the point, because the purpose of fast projectiles is range.

An overall damage decrease will do the same thing at range, it just won't leave them 4x as effective in CQ, which I'd prefer anyways. It, however, worked fine before, so I'm starting to think maybe it'd be okay. I'd prefer just adjusting damages and RoF's though. I like knowing my shots go where I place them.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Wed May 23, 2012 5:13 pm

Arrob

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 128

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Seems HiRez isnt interested in doing anything, they never even posted one comment on 500 forumsites about this. Unfortunately the best thing we can do is not to support this game anymore. Its sad because i like HiRez for digging out this awesome franchise, but they simply cant handle its awesomeness.

Wed May 23, 2012 5:27 pm

hvcterr

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 1567

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

lHEXENl wrote:

Comparing this game to such trash as CoD isn't fair nor reasonable in any way, shape or form. It's a knee jerk reaction to describe a gaming element that a particular player doesn't like. To be completely honest, anyone who claims this game is in any way similar to CoD is smoking the hyperbole. see what I did there?

Pretty much. I think we might be getting to the point where people complaining about Call of Duty are almost self-parody. Just read everything they say in the voice of the Simpsons comic-book guy.

_________________
Did you know you can disable annoying signatures? Look under Board Preferences >> Edit Display Options.

Wed May 23, 2012 5:33 pm

Cyanistic

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 3783
Steam Gamer Name: Cyanistic

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

-AEnubis- wrote:

Screen cracking should only happen with headshots, or single damages beyond a certain percentage of total health.

100% okay with this.

Wed May 23, 2012 5:50 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?