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Automatic weapon balance?
Author	Message
-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 5047 Location: NA East	Re: Automatic weapon balance? lol they used to be hit scan... HiRez has all but stated they are as they are to make killing easier. In my subjective opinion every weapon in this game is overpowered. Killing people should be much harder. I use auto's because I like to stay alive. Best way to do that is to kill my targets before they kill me. The easiest way to do that in most situations is with autos. Considering I'm a rox guy, and would much prefer throwing discs all day, my objective opinion is that the two weapon classes aren't balanced, and need a slight adjustment. The splash radius damage distribution on discs is stupid as well, but no point in fixing that, I just want the weapons balanced with each other. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Sun May 20, 2012 1:10 am

Lamikaze Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:55 am Posts: 442	Re: Automatic weapon balance? SenorRaoul wrote: change suggestions: reduce damage from all automatics except CG, rhino and tcg smg to 50%. reduce CG, rhino and tcg smg damage to 80%. unrelated: reduce projectile size of the plasma to that of a disk also reduce damage to 400 (direct). reduce damage of a jackal "round" to 400 (direct). You can't be serious. _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 2:57 am

Gariff Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am Posts: 111 Location: Australia	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Auto haters won't be happy untill auto's are so bad that the only time you'd ever use them is if you've used all of spinfuser ammo. Then everyone can finally enjoy playing Happy time spinfuser advetures. Where if you're not using a spinfusor you're not doing it right! _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 4:47 am

Guilotine Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:24 pm Posts: 14	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Gariff wrote: Auto haters won't be happy untill auto's are so bad that the only time you'd ever use them is if you've used all of spinfuser ammo. Then everyone can finally enjoy playing Happy time spinfuser advetures. Where if you're not using a spinfusor you're not doing it right! This game is supose to be about Spinfuser / thumpers as main weapon and not everyone spraying automatic weapons becouse they are so much better and they are so easy to hit mid air. Make bullet spread bit more severe depending on weapon size and rate of fire ( small smg's have bit higher spread compared to bigger slower SMG's ) and minor bullet drop would be fair expect for chaser classes but since current peads that dont drop or spread so you can easily trace and kill ppl far from Spinfuser ranges and mid air. This wouldnt be issue but since every class has SMG / Assault as Secondary and every uses them as main weapons.
Sun May 20, 2012 4:57 am

Gariff Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am Posts: 111 Location: Australia	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Guilotine wrote: Gariff wrote: Auto haters won't be happy untill auto's are so bad that the only time you'd ever use them is if you've used all of spinfuser ammo. Then everyone can finally enjoy playing Happy time spinfuser advetures. Where if you're not using a spinfusor you're not doing it right! This game is supose to be about Spinfuser / thumpers as main weapon and not everyone spraying automatic weapons becouse they are so much better and they are so easy to hit mid air. Make bullet spread bit more severe depending on weapon size and rate of fire ( small smg's have bit higher spread compared to bigger slower SMG's ) and minor bullet drop would be fair expect for chaser classes but since current peads that dont drop or spread so you can easily trace and kill ppl far from Spinfuser ranges and mid air. This wouldnt be issue but since every class has SMG / Assault as Secondary and every uses them as main weapons. How do you know what the game is meant to be like, are you a Hi-rez dev? people need to start realising this isn't the same company that made tribes 1 and 2, this isn't the same game with just upgraded graphics. This game is what hi-rez makes of it, not what every old school tribes player says it is, hi-rez is never going to make spin fusors the main weapon like it was in 1 and 2 because it's bad for buissness, why would anyone ever buy any new weapons if the spinfusor is still going to be the main weapon and better than them? _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 5:27 am

TheAlgerian Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:48 am Posts: 165	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Gariff wrote: Guilotine wrote: Gariff wrote: Auto haters won't be happy untill auto's are so bad that the only time you'd ever use them is if you've used all of spinfuser ammo. Then everyone can finally enjoy playing Happy time spinfuser advetures. Where if you're not using a spinfusor you're not doing it right! This game is supose to be about Spinfuser / thumpers as main weapon and not everyone spraying automatic weapons becouse they are so much better and they are so easy to hit mid air. Make bullet spread bit more severe depending on weapon size and rate of fire ( small smg's have bit higher spread compared to bigger slower SMG's ) and minor bullet drop would be fair expect for chaser classes but since current peads that dont drop or spread so you can easily trace and kill ppl far from Spinfuser ranges and mid air. This wouldnt be issue but since every class has SMG / Assault as Secondary and every uses them as main weapons. How do you know what the game is meant to be like, are you a Hi-rez dev? Because it's... obvious? Gariff wrote: people need to start realising this isn't the same company that made tribes 1 and 2, this isn't the same game with just upgraded graphics. This game is what hi-rez makes of it, not what every old school tribes player says it is Ho so they named their games "Tribes" and bought the license so they could make a futuristic mod for CoD? Roughly translated you're just saying "I can't play for squat, so I just want to be able to spam people forever with my cheap autos and not need any skill ever". The gaming industry is full of no-skill games if that's what you're looking for. _________________
Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am

miqueloz Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 pm Posts: 267	Re: Automatic weapon balance? TheAlgerian wrote: Because it's... obvious? What a stupid thing to say. How is it obvious? The only 'obvious' thing would be in direct contradiction to what you claim: autos being the way it's supposed to be played. Seeing as that's how it is.
Sun May 20, 2012 7:32 am

ArchangelXv1 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm Posts: 1600 Location: Oahu,Hawaii	Re: Automatic weapon balance? If Hi-Rez doesn't change the autos, welps...that's just a version of Tribes I don't care for. I've been holding out for a ton of fixes not counting autos. I can still hold my own, it's the cheapness of the auto kills that get me, they're simply overpowered. Anyone arguing that they aren't are obviously blind...in the hands of an expert player they are simply unbelievabely overpowered, way more so than any mortar, disc or other weapon. They just are, it's plain as day. Their benefits vastly outweigh the cons of the AoE weapons. Constant DPS, effective in both air and on the ground, and they have changed the gameplay of Tribes from being air-centric to ground-centric. This game used to revolve around a myriad amount of different weapons, each with their own strengths and weaknesses...it was a game that revolved around having only one CG that people had a choice of carrying along with an entire SET of weapons that had multiple strengths, now it's your secondary out of a two-weapon loadout. This has changed the entire gameplay massively. Instead of being just one of many options, people (noobs and pros alike) are funneled down a path where every loadout has an auto forced down upon them. Combined with the fact that autos can emit constant DPS, are effective both in the air and the ground with no ill effects such as recoil, spread (for the most part) with the massive weapon switch times and the gimped physics...this game is TOTALLY different from previous Tribes games. It's a simple, logical truth. _________________ Communication is a very worthy thing. Fool's Epic T1 Movie
Sun May 20, 2012 7:45 am

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: Automatic weapon balance? The game is called Tribes, they picked up an iconic franchise, Hi-Rez can put their own spin on the game, but to be loyal to the franchise some things need to stay, and in my opinion, the weapon balance is one of them. In 1, 2 and Vengeance you had a single Chain Gun and a vast amount of explosive weaponry, explosives drove the game, they are what made Tribes such a successful and great franchise, since 9 out of 10 other shooters at any period of time were focussing on automatic dominated combat, because it was easy, Tribes was an escape from that. In the same way other iconic franchises offered something different from the generic shooter, like Quake and Unreal Tournament. Why did you play Tribes, Quake and Unreal Tournament?, because they were just another generic shooter?, or because they peeled away from generic games and offered something new and unique, and flipped the combat on its head. At the moment though, Hi-Rez have dumped one of the most important aspects of the Tribes franchise, they have taken the single Chain Gun and expanded it into 9 generic looking and generic feeling automatics. That alone does offer the prospect of different automatics being better at different things and having more of a balance, which isn't the worst idea ever, as long as explosives are balanced alongside them. But instead, Hi-Rez took the automatics and made them considerably more powerful and superior in almost every situation compared to explosives. Which turns quite a few games into just another shooter, based around automatic combat. And they clearly had this idea in mind from the start, the fact that automatics used to hitscan just proves that, Hi-Rez for some reason wanted automatics to always be superior from the get go. In earlier beta when there were more classes and less automatics, games were dominated by Rangers... because they had an automatic, that should have been the time Hi-Rez changed things, when it was in beta and they were allowed to test balance changes between patches, but they didn't, instead, they introduced more automatics, gave one to the Juggernaut, Pathfinder and Sentinel, until every class had one, only the Brute lacks an automatic, but I'd put money on when the Brute patch comes out, he gets an automatic, just to be able to compete, otherwise the Brute will forever be the underdog unless Hi-Rez can offer another sumpremely overpowered explosive weapon to compensate, like the Plasma Gun and Jackal. The only explosive weapons able to compete, and they need to be overpowered to do so. Things need to change, better late than never, Hi-Rez need to put the uniqueness of the Tribes franchise into Tribes: Ascend, to make it worth playing over any other shooter, otherwise it will stay like it is now, automatics will rule the game, just like thousands of other shooters, and explosives will just be a niche, good for indoor combat, and that's about it, with each map being less than 1% indoors. Please, balance the weapons. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Sun May 20, 2012 8:01 am

desolatedlunatic Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:49 pm Posts: 509	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Gariff wrote: Auto haters won't be happy untill auto's are so bad that the only time you'd ever use them is if you've used all of spinfuser ammo. Then everyone can finally enjoy playing Happy time spinfuser advetures. Where if you're not using a spinfusor you're not doing it right! I would like them nerfed to point where I don't feel a bad person when I use them only to survive a fight. _________________ cyber-raptor67 wrote: but because of the fact that you instanly fire when you first press you left mouse click you just need the "reload time" to kill
Sun May 20, 2012 8:30 am

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Automatic weapon balance?

Author

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-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 5047
Location: NA East

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

lol they used to be hit scan...

HiRez has all but stated they are as they are to make killing easier.

In my subjective opinion every weapon in this game is overpowered. Killing people should be much harder.

I use auto's because I like to stay alive. Best way to do that is to kill my targets before they kill me. The easiest way to do that in most situations is with autos. Considering I'm a rox guy, and would much prefer throwing discs all day, my objective opinion is that the two weapon classes aren't balanced, and need a slight adjustment.

The splash radius damage distribution on discs is stupid as well, but no point in fixing that, I just want the weapons balanced with each other.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Sun May 20, 2012 1:10 am

Lamikaze

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:55 am
Posts: 442

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

SenorRaoul wrote:

change suggestions:
reduce damage from all automatics except CG, rhino and tcg smg to 50%.
reduce CG, rhino and tcg smg damage to 80%.

unrelated:
reduce projectile size of the plasma to that of a disk also reduce damage to 400 (direct).
reduce damage of a jackal "round" to 400 (direct).

You can't be serious.

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 2:57 am

Gariff

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am
Posts: 111
Location: Australia

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Auto haters won't be happy untill auto's are so bad that the only time you'd ever use them is if you've used all of spinfuser ammo. Then everyone can finally enjoy playing Happy time spinfuser advetures. Where if you're not using a spinfusor you're not doing it right!

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 4:47 am

Guilotine

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:24 pm
Posts: 14

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Gariff wrote:

This game is supose to be about Spinfuser / thumpers as main weapon and not everyone spraying automatic weapons becouse they are so much better and they are so easy to hit mid air.

Make bullet spread bit more severe depending on weapon size and rate of fire ( small smg's have bit higher spread compared to bigger slower SMG's ) and minor bullet drop would be fair expect for chaser classes but since current peads that dont drop or spread so you can easily trace and kill ppl far from Spinfuser ranges and mid air.

This wouldnt be issue but since every class has SMG / Assault as Secondary and every uses them as main weapons.

Sun May 20, 2012 4:57 am

Gariff

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am
Posts: 111
Location: Australia

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Guilotine wrote:

Gariff wrote:

How do you know what the game is meant to be like, are you a Hi-rez dev? people need to start realising this isn't the same company that made tribes 1 and 2, this isn't the same game with just upgraded graphics. This game is what hi-rez makes of it, not what every old school tribes player says it is, hi-rez is never going to make spin fusors the main weapon like it was in 1 and 2 because it's bad for buissness, why would anyone ever buy any new weapons if the spinfusor is still going to be the main weapon and better than them?

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 5:27 am

TheAlgerian

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:48 am
Posts: 165

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Gariff wrote:

Guilotine wrote:

Gariff wrote:

How do you know what the game is meant to be like, are you a Hi-rez dev?

Because it's... obvious?

Gariff wrote:

people need to start realising this isn't the same company that made tribes 1 and 2, this isn't the same game with just upgraded graphics. This game is what hi-rez makes of it, not what every old school tribes player says it is

Ho so they named their games "Tribes" and bought the license so they could make a futuristic mod for CoD?

Roughly translated you're just saying "I can't play for squat, so I just want to be able to spam people forever with my cheap autos and not need any skill ever".

The gaming industry is full of no-skill games if that's what you're looking for.

_________________

Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am

miqueloz

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 267

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

TheAlgerian wrote:

Because it's... obvious?

What a stupid thing to say. How is it obvious? The only 'obvious' thing would be in direct contradiction to what you claim: autos being the way it's supposed to be played. Seeing as that's how it is.

Sun May 20, 2012 7:32 am

ArchangelXv1

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:05 pm
Posts: 1600
Location: Oahu,Hawaii

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

If Hi-Rez doesn't change the autos, welps...that's just a version of Tribes I don't care for. I've been holding out for a ton of fixes not counting autos. I can still hold my own, it's the cheapness of the auto kills that get me, they're simply overpowered.

Anyone arguing that they aren't are obviously blind...in the hands of an expert player they are simply unbelievabely overpowered, way more so than any mortar, disc or other weapon. They just are, it's plain as day. Their benefits vastly outweigh the cons of the AoE weapons. Constant DPS, effective in both air and on the ground, and they have changed the gameplay of Tribes from being air-centric to ground-centric.

This game used to revolve around a myriad amount of different weapons, each with their own strengths and weaknesses...it was a game that revolved around having only one CG that people had a choice of carrying along with an entire SET of weapons that had multiple strengths, now it's your secondary out of a two-weapon loadout.

This has changed the entire gameplay massively. Instead of being just one of many options, people (noobs and pros alike) are funneled down a path where every loadout has an auto forced down upon them. Combined with the fact that autos can emit constant DPS, are effective both in the air and the ground with no ill effects such as recoil, spread (for the most part) with the massive weapon switch times and the gimped physics...this game is TOTALLY different from previous Tribes games.

It's a simple, logical truth.

_________________
Communication is a very worthy thing.

Fool's Epic T1 Movie

Sun May 20, 2012 7:45 am

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

The game is called Tribes, they picked up an iconic franchise, Hi-Rez can put their own spin on the game, but to be loyal to the franchise some things need to stay, and in my opinion, the weapon balance is one of them.

In 1, 2 and Vengeance you had a single Chain Gun and a vast amount of explosive weaponry, explosives drove the game, they are what made Tribes such a successful and great franchise, since 9 out of 10 other shooters at any period of time were focussing on automatic dominated combat, because it was easy, Tribes was an escape from that. In the same way other iconic franchises offered something different from the generic shooter, like Quake and Unreal Tournament.

Why did you play Tribes, Quake and Unreal Tournament?, because they were just another generic shooter?, or because they peeled away from generic games and offered something new and unique, and flipped the combat on its head.

At the moment though, Hi-Rez have dumped one of the most important aspects of the Tribes franchise, they have taken the single Chain Gun and expanded it into 9 generic looking and generic feeling automatics. That alone does offer the prospect of different automatics being better at different things and having more of a balance, which isn't the worst idea ever, as long as explosives are balanced alongside them.

But instead, Hi-Rez took the automatics and made them considerably more powerful and superior in almost every situation compared to explosives. Which turns quite a few games into just another shooter, based around automatic combat.

And they clearly had this idea in mind from the start, the fact that automatics used to hitscan just proves that, Hi-Rez for some reason wanted automatics to always be superior from the get go.

In earlier beta when there were more classes and less automatics, games were dominated by Rangers... because they had an automatic, that should have been the time Hi-Rez changed things, when it was in beta and they were allowed to test balance changes between patches, but they didn't, instead, they introduced more automatics, gave one to the Juggernaut, Pathfinder and Sentinel, until every class had one, only the Brute lacks an automatic, but I'd put money on when the Brute patch comes out, he gets an automatic, just to be able to compete, otherwise the Brute will forever be the underdog unless Hi-Rez can offer another sumpremely overpowered explosive weapon to compensate, like the Plasma Gun and Jackal. The only explosive weapons able to compete, and they need to be overpowered to do so.

Things need to change, better late than never, Hi-Rez need to put the uniqueness of the Tribes franchise into Tribes: Ascend, to make it worth playing over any other shooter, otherwise it will stay like it is now, automatics will rule the game, just like thousands of other shooters, and explosives will just be a niche, good for indoor combat, and that's about it, with each map being less than 1% indoors.

Please, balance the weapons.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
Large Jackal Nerf

Sun May 20, 2012 8:01 am

desolatedlunatic

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:49 pm
Posts: 509

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Gariff wrote:

I would like them nerfed to point where I don't feel a bad person when I use them only to survive a fight.

_________________

cyber-raptor67 wrote:

but because of the fact that you instanly fire when you first press you left mouse click you just need the "reload time" to kill

Sun May 20, 2012 8:30 am

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Automatic weapon balance?