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Automatic weapon balance?
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Gorthaur Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:54 pm Posts: 295	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Like in real life, the longer you hold down the trigger the less accurate the gun should become. You should still be able to get good accuracy at long range if you used short controlled bursts but this will reduce your DPS. The different guns can have different thresholds so a machine gun will be more tolerant of longer bursts than an assault rifle. A SMG will have less recoil than an assault rifle but lower damage. The doombringer holding down the mouse button to shoot ad infinitum is annoying as well. They don't kill me very often but they just look retarded doing it. Lowest skill weapon to hold fire and chase people around. Give it overheat and or a reload like others have mentioned. The splash weapons deal too much damage as well. Dueling is not fun when a single bolt from a light bolt launcher virtually kills you. I like the amount of damage the light spinfusor does but think the soldier and brute spinfusor deal too much as well as the light bolt launcher and tech thumper. Fights are over too quickly, especially indoors to have much fun.
Mon May 07, 2012 6:14 pm

LumensAquilae Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:04 am Posts: 277	Re: Automatic weapon balance? If I was the God of Tribes I would make quite a few changes to bullet weapons: - Equalize bullet velocity across the board. Makes learning and using bullet weapons more consistent. - Give bullets 100% inheritance to make using them at high speeds more effective and make ADADAD ground strafing less effective. - Introduce bullet spread mechanics. Guns become less accurate as you hold the trigger. This encourages firing in well-aimed bursts and discourages constant spraying. Accuracy and spread would vary between weapons to help better differentiate weapons besides ROF and DPS, for example the Soldier AR has the lowest DPS of all automatics yet it could also have the tightest spread. - LAR, Falcon, NJ5B, maybe another, would be burst fire weapons. Each click fires a tight burst of bullets with a cooldown between shots. These would be more accurate than SMGs. I think these changes would greatly improve the general flow of combat.
Mon May 07, 2012 7:01 pm

miqueloz Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 pm Posts: 267	Re: Automatic weapon balance? -AEnubis- wrote: miqueloz wrote: When I use an automatic, I don't like targeting heavies simply because it takes so long to kill them. No matter how well I shoot, I'll have to reload. Not to mention the fact that Jugger and DMB have their own automatics. lol 1 reload. I do it in one clip often enough, I really fail to see this perspective. Impossible with the assault rifle. 32x75=2400.
Mon May 07, 2012 7:05 pm

Chargolith Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:40 pm Posts: 43	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Just making the hitbox size of bullet weapons the same as spinfusors would go a long ways to solving the problem. Seriously, several of the automatics have a hitbox as big as the plasma.
Mon May 07, 2012 7:32 pm

Durzaka Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:42 pm Posts: 1276	Re: Automatic weapon balance? miqueloz wrote: -AEnubis- wrote: miqueloz wrote: When I use an automatic, I don't like targeting heavies simply because it takes so long to kill them. No matter how well I shoot, I'll have to reload. Not to mention the fact that Jugger and DMB have their own automatics. lol 1 reload. I do it in one clip often enough, I really fail to see this perspective. Impossible with the assault rifle. 32x75=2400. ok, so the worst auto in the game cant do it in 1 clip. Doesnt really warrant it being an argument against autos. Chargolith wrote: Just making the hitbox size of bullet weapons the same as spinfusors would go a long ways to solving the problem. Seriously, several of the automatics have a hitbox as big as the plasma. Have any video proof? I havent experienced that ever and i just recently tested all autos in target practice.
Mon May 07, 2012 7:48 pm

Gariff Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am Posts: 111 Location: Australia	Re: Automatic weapon balance? I think all auto weapons just need a overheat meter, so for every 12-17 bullets a auto shoots it needs to cool for 1-2 seconds. Taking the Techs SMG for example it would deal 80x17 bullets = 1360 damage at close range, this would kill a fully armored medium BUT it would take 100% accuracy to do it. Vs a fully armored light the Techs SMG would still take 12 bullets dealing 960 damage, which is close to 57% accuracy needed to kill a light before the overheat happens, Only skilled players will be able to manage to kill before a overheat. The numbers could be adjusted for other autos and the chain gun. I really, really hope spread isn't added to auto's it's just a bad mechanic that rewards bad players and nerfs good player. Which i hope no one wants... _________________
Mon May 07, 2012 7:52 pm

dionisus Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:50 pm Posts: 24	Re: Automatic weapon balance? I know I said I wasn't going to play anymore, but I wanted to finish my booster. Had another game today. Here was the makeup of the opposing team: 5 Tech 5 Raider 2 Sent 1 DMB 1 Jug 2 Pth Played crossfire, and it was the most horrendous match I've ever seen. 5 - 10 deployable turrets out, and auto spam everywhere. It is getting worse.
Mon May 07, 2012 8:32 pm

WitchDoctorVega Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am Posts: 2482 Location: On the coast, NH Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..	Re: Automatic weapon balance? dionisus wrote: I know I said I wasn't going to play anymore, but I wanted to finish my booster. Had another game today. Here was the makeup of the opposing team: 5 Tech 5 Raider 2 Sent 1 DMB 1 Jug 2 Pth Played crossfire, and it was the most horrendous match I've ever seen. 5 - 10 deployable turrets out, and auto spam everywhere. It is getting worse. yeah but didn't you realize that automatic weapons are what tribes has always been about? spinfusors were only introduced into this game for some much needed diversity, but they're hardly worth using. _________________ CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!
Mon May 07, 2012 8:42 pm

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Oh man, Capture & Hold is dead to me now. I used it as a place to get away from automatics after a few pleasant experiences with explosive gameplay in C&H, i.e. fun. Now though, it has been claimed. After 5 different servers showcasing Doombringers with Chainguns and spamming the Saber Launcher from hills, Technicians with SMG's + Turrets placed all over control points and Raiders abusing the NJ5-B and Plasma Gun. I've had enough. There's no way to escape them now Seeing a rank 15 Raider exclusively using the NJ5-B on Drydock Night and getting 30 kills without dying within 15 minutes just makes me sad. I spectated him and he was just ripping through everyone, I tried to escape a couple of times since I stood no chance but he quite effortlessly kept hitting me over huge distances, I went Pathfinder to make myself a smaller target, but all he needed was to land 7 shots to kill me, and he was rarely missing. It was a horrible experience. I've pretty much exhausted all options now, C&H was a refreshing break from CTF, or so I thought, but now like every gamemode it's just a case of which team has the most automatics. Well that, and the mighty overpowered AoEtomatic Plasma Gun. I'm done, I'll stay on the forums because they are more entertaning than the average game of Tribes: Ascend right now, but for the actual game, I can't see a way to enjoy it. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 pm

hinderlijk Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:02 pm Posts: 13	Re: Automatic weapon balance? automatic weapon's are just to simple to use and to efective compared to projectile weapons in my opinion. simple as that. a duel with projectile weapons vs a automatic weapon, the automatic weapon has alot higher chance of wining, wich isent blananced if you ask me. and we all know balance is one of the most importand things in a video game.
Mon May 07, 2012 9:25 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?

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Gorthaur

Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:54 pm
Posts: 295

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Like in real life, the longer you hold down the trigger the less accurate the gun should become. You should still be able to get good accuracy at long range if you used short controlled bursts but this will reduce your DPS. The different guns can have different thresholds so a machine gun will be more tolerant of longer bursts than an assault rifle. A SMG will have less recoil than an assault rifle but lower damage.

The doombringer holding down the mouse button to shoot ad infinitum is annoying as well. They don't kill me very often but they just look retarded doing it. Lowest skill weapon to hold fire and chase people around. Give it overheat and or a reload like others have mentioned.

The splash weapons deal too much damage as well. Dueling is not fun when a single bolt from a light bolt launcher virtually kills you. I like the amount of damage the light spinfusor does but think the soldier and brute spinfusor deal too much as well as the light bolt launcher and tech thumper.

Fights are over too quickly, especially indoors to have much fun.

Mon May 07, 2012 6:14 pm

LumensAquilae

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:04 am
Posts: 277

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

If I was the God of Tribes I would make quite a few changes to bullet weapons:

- Equalize bullet velocity across the board. Makes learning and using bullet weapons more consistent.

- Give bullets 100% inheritance to make using them at high speeds more effective and make ADADAD ground strafing less effective.

- Introduce bullet spread mechanics. Guns become less accurate as you hold the trigger. This encourages firing in well-aimed bursts and discourages constant spraying. Accuracy and spread would vary between weapons to help better differentiate weapons besides ROF and DPS, for example the Soldier AR has the lowest DPS of all automatics yet it could also have the tightest spread.

- LAR, Falcon, NJ5B, maybe another, would be burst fire weapons. Each click fires a tight burst of bullets with a cooldown between shots. These would be more accurate than SMGs.

I think these changes would greatly improve the general flow of combat.

Mon May 07, 2012 7:01 pm

miqueloz

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 267

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

-AEnubis- wrote:

miqueloz wrote:

When I use an automatic, I don't like targeting heavies simply because it takes so long to kill them. No matter how well I shoot, I'll have to reload. Not to mention the fact that Jugger and DMB have their own automatics.

lol 1 reload. I do it in one clip often enough, I really fail to see this perspective.

Impossible with the assault rifle. 32x75=2400.

Mon May 07, 2012 7:05 pm

Chargolith

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:40 pm
Posts: 43

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Just making the hitbox size of bullet weapons the same as spinfusors would go a long ways to solving the problem. Seriously, several of the automatics have a hitbox as big as the plasma.

Mon May 07, 2012 7:32 pm

Durzaka

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:42 pm
Posts: 1276

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

miqueloz wrote:

-AEnubis- wrote:

miqueloz wrote:

lol 1 reload. I do it in one clip often enough, I really fail to see this perspective.

Impossible with the assault rifle. 32x75=2400.

ok, so the worst auto in the game cant do it in 1 clip.

Doesnt really warrant it being an argument against autos.

Chargolith wrote:

Just making the hitbox size of bullet weapons the same as spinfusors would go a long ways to solving the problem. Seriously, several of the automatics have a hitbox as big as the plasma.

Have any video proof? I havent experienced that ever and i just recently tested all autos in target practice.

Mon May 07, 2012 7:48 pm

Gariff

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 am
Posts: 111
Location: Australia

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

I think all auto weapons just need a overheat meter, so for every 12-17 bullets a auto shoots it needs to cool for 1-2 seconds. Taking the Techs SMG for example it would deal 80x17 bullets = 1360 damage at close range, this would kill a fully armored medium BUT it would take 100% accuracy to do it.

Vs a fully armored light the Techs SMG would still take 12 bullets dealing 960 damage, which is close to 57% accuracy needed to kill a light before the overheat happens, Only skilled players will be able to manage to kill before a overheat.

The numbers could be adjusted for other autos and the chain gun.

I really, really hope spread isn't added to auto's it's just a bad mechanic that rewards bad players and nerfs good player. Which i hope no one wants...

_________________

Mon May 07, 2012 7:52 pm

dionisus

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:50 pm
Posts: 24

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

I know I said I wasn't going to play anymore, but I wanted to finish my booster.

Had another game today. Here was the makeup of the opposing team:

5 Tech
5 Raider
2 Sent
1 DMB
1 Jug
2 Pth

Played crossfire, and it was the most horrendous match I've ever seen. 5 - 10 deployable turrets out, and auto spam everywhere.

It is getting worse.

Mon May 07, 2012 8:32 pm

WitchDoctorVega

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am
Posts: 2482
Location: On the coast, NH
Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

dionisus wrote:

yeah but didn't you realize that automatic weapons are what tribes has always been about? spinfusors were only introduced into this game for some much needed diversity, but they're hardly worth using.

_________________
CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!

Mon May 07, 2012 8:42 pm

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Oh man, Capture & Hold is dead to me now. I used it as a place to get away from automatics after a few pleasant experiences with explosive gameplay in C&H, i.e. fun.

Now though, it has been claimed. After 5 different servers showcasing Doombringers with Chainguns and spamming the Saber Launcher from hills, Technicians with SMG's + Turrets placed all over control points and Raiders abusing the NJ5-B and Plasma Gun. I've had enough. There's no way to escape them now :cry:

Seeing a rank 15 Raider exclusively using the NJ5-B on Drydock Night and getting 30 kills without dying within 15 minutes just makes me sad. I spectated him and he was just ripping through everyone, I tried to escape a couple of times since I stood no chance but he quite effortlessly kept hitting me over huge distances, I went Pathfinder to make myself a smaller target, but all he needed was to land 7 shots to kill me, and he was rarely missing. It was a horrible experience.

I've pretty much exhausted all options now, C&H was a refreshing break from CTF, or so I thought, but now like every gamemode it's just a case of which team has the most automatics. Well that, and the mighty overpowered AoEtomatic Plasma Gun.

I'm done, I'll stay on the forums because they are more entertaning than the average game of Tribes: Ascend right now, but for the actual game, I can't see a way to enjoy it.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
Large Jackal Nerf

Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 pm

hinderlijk

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:02 pm
Posts: 13

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

automatic weapon's are just to simple to use and to efective compared to projectile weapons in my opinion. simple as that.

a duel with projectile weapons vs a automatic weapon, the automatic weapon has alot higher chance of wining, wich isent blananced if you ask me. and we all know balance is one of the most importand things in a video game.

Mon May 07, 2012 9:25 pm

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Automatic weapon balance?